This is not Porsche based...

I have a unique view into the appliance car world (it's what I work on) and I've seen a prequel to a 5k valve job that can be avoided with the knowledge that I have and am willing to share.

If you have a Honda that is powered by a V6 this is applicable to you.

Timing belts live a long time on these vehicles and only need to be changed every 120k.

Honda says 105 but that is early in my book.

What is disquieting is something I've seen 10+ times in the last year.

The hydraulic tensioner ram loses it's "charge" and allows the belt to run stupid loose.

This manifests as a light tapping/rattle, especially noticeable on start up.

It'll rattle pretty good until the vehicle warms up and then go silent. Many owners discount this.

It's the freaking grim reaper banging on your door!

You need a timing belt job YESTERDAY!

The current one I'm doing had 190K on it and the belt has not been changed...

I don't use fear to sell jobs, that's dirty in my book!

I told this customer that if I owned the van I would deadline it for engine start.

They agreed to the job, and I PUSHED a perfectly running van onto my lift.

I was serious! NO STARTING!

Bad ram, saved the engine, target down!

If it breaks it takes ALL of the valves with it.

Turns a $1200 timing belt job into a $5k+ t-belt and replace all the valves job.

For most owners it means donating the Honda as no one will pay shit for it and $500 car payments for the next 6 years...

This noise is amplified through the rear head, and many will diagnose something wrong in the rocker arms in it.
They will be wrong!

The best t-belt kit is Aisin TKH-002. Amazon is the best source ($200). All Japanese, most OEM Honda and the ram/water pump is Toyota (Aisin IS Toyota).
Never use anything from another country here.

Now, my question to forum members...

Should I post this in the sand box? Many don't look there for car related stuff.
Should I not post non-Porsche crap at all?

The way I look at this post is "if I save ONE forum member an engine it was worth it"

What say you?

Should I "back slowly away from the keyboard and drop that mouse"?

How is Aisin = Toyota if they supply Honda and Nissan too? I thought they were a stand alone supplier.

Note to self don’t buy a car with rubber bands for engine parts

I appreciate the Honda V6 info presented here despite it not applying directly to me.

I’ve owned a number of interesting makes and models over the years, and still have a couple of mid-‘60’s Corvettes.

Beside my 914/6, my 1Gen Honda CRX is an enduring passion. Been planning & collecting parts for a K series swap into it. I’m also aware that I am not the only 914World member to frequent at least one CRX site.

It’s not for me to decide how / where such posts belong. Maybe a subcategory of the 914WorldGarage?? But IMHO there are many interesting cars.

Japanese operate on Keiretsu model with major OEM’s owning portions of their supply base.

Click to view attachment

Aisin is free to sell parts to whomever but about 70% of their business is Toyota.

Likewise - JTEKT supplies to domestics such as Ford and Jeep.

Koyo bearings in various OEMs, same for Denso.

Definitely relates to Porsches, but not so much to 914s unless somebody swapped the motor.

Our 968 has a timing belt and being an interference motor, will have the pistons and valves hit if the belt fails. Since so few 968s made it to the US and overall production was so low, parts are very hard to find. The was especially true of the hydraulic belt tensioner. But a few months ago Uro started reproducing them. Changing the belts and the tensioner isn't that difficult a job. Fixing bent valves and bent pistons is difficult and expensive, especially when you can't get parts.

Aisin also relates to Porsches. That's the company that made the transmission in our 955 (Cayenne S). BTW you can buy transmission fluid from Porsche for something like $40-50 a liter or get the Aisin brand transmission fluid for around $9, at least those were the approximate prices when we changed our fluid.

Does this apply to our 21 pilot?

@technicalninja I appreciate the posting as my brother has an '18 Ridgeline we drive all of the time with 72K miles one it. We stay on top of the maintenance and it is in perfect condition, but your post was good information.

I PROMISE not to flood the forum with non-Porsche stuff.

When I post something like the ram problem on Hondas it will be in a PSA form and that will be noted in the title.

I will describe the issue and my fixes for it.

If this is ever thought of as trash, something that doesn't belong please post your complaint in the public forum.

If other's agree I'll stop!

Now
@SuperHawk996
Where do you come up with all the graphs and incredibly detailed charts and so forth?
You ARE the Encyclopedia of arcane automotive knowledge!

I see Toyota and Aisin as being siblings; they were brought up together!
I see both AISIN and TOYOTA cast into the aluminum parts.
When I purchase an AISIN aftermarket part it is obvious that the TOYOTA insignia have been ground off by hand...

All the companies are "in bed" with each other, the only exclusions are "gaijin" or foriegners.
The most impressive ones are NGK/NTK and Denso. NGK has taken over the ignition and sensor world. Pretty much everyone uses NGK stuff now.

Denso has a greater footprint...
More than 75% of the HVAC parts in ALL brands have gone Denso.
You can buy afermarket Denso parts for everything but Stellantis (Chrysler) vehicles.
Somehow, Stellantis got them locked up! Stellantis parts are 50% overpriced IMO.

Almost all the Japanese are Denso.
Add modern GM and Stellatis to the list as well.
I see Denso on most German stuff.

I just love the shit out of Denso parts! No comebacks!

A couple of years ago I replaced the compressor on my wife's 06 Oddy touring. $1K from Honda, $225 from Amazon. Same part!

@Rufus
IMO the Honda K series is the best 4 cylinder ever built by ANYONE!
I have access to one of the best Ks out there. 2005 TSX K24A2.
That engine, with un-restricted exhaust/intake, and a performance tune can exceed 240hp at the wheels in bone stock form.
Add engine parts and lots more is available.
Add a turbo and it's hard to make less than 400...
If you use a later model Z7 stuff with the single square exhaust port the turbo is much easier to install.
It's the engine I probably should use in the 916 clone I have; just seem wrong to me...

@Jack Standz
You have a Porsche that I've lusted for from the first time I saw one...
I'm more of a front engine/rear drive guy. Datsun Zcars, Miatas, BMW M3. I have them all.
I SHOULD have bought a 968 ten years ago when they were affordable.
I want a convertible!

The single worst T-belt failure I've see was on a 944S4. Holes in the block with rods sticking out, cam shaft towers broken off the head, both cams snapped in two, valve chunks EVERYWHERE.
Total and complete destruction. No core valve at all!!
Got an engine from a dismantler.

The Honda just bends the valves a little tiny bit. Tiny dents in the piston tops that are not service effecting. You can save a bent valve Honda, not so sure about saving a 968...

I use URO as well. I've got URO 5 lug flanges on the 914 and a bunch of URO stuff on the M3.
I see them as 2nd rate. Sometimes they are the only "Show in Town" and you have to use.
If I had URO parts in a critical location (like the ram on a 968!) I'd half the service life!
Early T-belt changes on that puppy from that point on...

When I find a convertible with a popped motor (only way I can afford one) I already know what I'll put in it.
LS variant, 4" or larger bore, 3" stroke, titanium rods, late truck heads, Jesel valve train, ITBs.
Try to limit the torque below 350 to re-use drivetrain but have an 8500-rpm motor...
Might be CHEAPER than a dismantler 968 engine used!

Thanks for the replies guys!

27 years in the auto industry . . . Been around. Seen some things. . And that doesn’t count the time from teenage years as a gear head until my 1st job in the industry.

Internet is the most powerful library ever known to mankind. Shame it mostly gets used for cat meme’s.

Think so my '16 pilot has the timing belt and I think its the same engine generation. We just changed our at 105k, along with the water pump and valve adjustment. Was about $3k out the door (I'm not even going to try and work on this car).

Also separate but related once you hit about 60k in any of the honda v6 transmissions ('16 pilot 6 speed auto for us) make sure to change the trans fluid every 20-30k. Our torq converter started not locking and the dealer told us we needed a new trans, turns out we just needed the trans fluid changed a few times (only does 1/3 of total volume per change).

Interesting

The Honda ATF replacement is the VERY easiest one to do as well as the least expensive by FAR!!!

Most take 3.5 qts of Honda DW.
The drain plug is a square that your 3/8" ratchet will fit in!
Has a big assed magnet on it. Easy to get to!
The fill plug is on the top of the transmission behind the air snorkel 17mm and has "ATF" recessed in the top of it. I use a 1/2" breaker bar and a long extension. The top plug gets TIGHT!
The aluminum crush rings can be re-used 5 times if you're careful. Lightly seat the top plug. It will be tighter than hell down the road anyway.

A Christmas tree funnel is the proper tool to re-fill. Works great!
I cut the tube down to fit inside the engine compartment. It slides right in the fill hole.

The ONLY place to get the ATF or the PS fluid is the dealer!
Same price or less than aftermarket!
The rest of the fluids don't matter where you get them.
I charge .3 hours of labor and charge for 3.5 qts at 11 per.
Tax title and license $80!

I always catch and measure what I drain (to show customer and verify fill level).

I run 10K synthetic oil changes (Honda filters too-they're cheap!) and every third one I do ATF as well.

It's actually easier than an oil change!
Most cars don't even need the bottom plastic removed. Not Oddys for sure!

Heads up guys! Oddys are one of the EASIER cars to work on.
Wait till you try to change plugs on a Toyota Sienna minivan!

When cheap ass aftermarket coil boots stick to the plug and tear off was the worst!
I wanted to die...
Got them bitches out but I warn Sienna owners BEFORE the job that pricing is FLUID on these!

While we’re on the subject of servicing Honda’s …

Since owning my 87 CRX Si back in the ‘80’s I’ve found they’re relatively easy and straight forward to work on. I’ve never worked on a V6, but did all my own work on the CRX including changing the timing belt. More recently I’ve adjusted the valves and changed the CVT fluid on my ‘16 Accord. The key is having FSM info at hand. Used to be a physical manual; now you need to pay for online access. I just subscribed for 24hrs and went on a blitz saving everything I thought I might eventually need to a hard drive.

BTW, @technicalninja : the K24A2’s just what I’m planning for a 2100lb CRX hotrod.

Rufus, Identifix, which I have a subscription to, now costs me $210 per month.

$7 dollars a day...

Used to cost 200 per month.

For 8 years now!

I'm fast closing on having spent 20K for my books...

If I didn't work on OPCs (other people's cars) I WOULD NOT have spent that!

I have NOTHING but happy customers for the money...

Best wishes for the search for a 968. They only imported about 2,008 Cabriolets to North America (US, Canada and Mexico), so it won't be easy to find one, just be patient. And, it may be sacrilegious to some, but we'd opt for an LS swap too if the motor goes boom and can't be fixed.

Yes avoid having the pistons meet up with the valves. Never saw the damage you described in that 944 S2, but don't want to either. We will use the Uro hydraulic belt tensioner as they are the only current source. The 944s used a spring loaded and manually tensioned arrangement, not sure if the S2s did too, but they did also have a 3 liter 4 cylinder like the 968s, just with lower HP.