Somewhat getting my a** kicked trying to get a conversion completed. We have a decent chassis and a fresh 2.7 that has made the rounds from Ollies and Eksten's. Still running a small business and often prioritize kids/grandkids when it comes to free time. It is coming up on two years and currently attempting to work through oil lines, exhaust, do I need an external cooler or not??

All the guys who have done them, would you do it again?

Absolutely!

I would definitely do it again, if I have a good running 6 to put in.

Weld the mount
Cut holes for tank
Install engine
Slight wiring
Enjoy!

I was planning to put a front cooler in my 2.4 due to it getting hot.

Yes, mine took 8 years but all worth it. Best, MarkClick to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachment

You are far north. If the engine is bone stock and not taken to the Glenn. I would drive it. You might be able to get away with a Setrab and fan under rear trunk.
The 9146 project I'm on has been 4 years plus, and almost finished.
Spending time with your kids and grand kids is more important than any 914....
Matt

Hi John,


Having done 3 conversions and worked on a few org 6's in the past. I'd have to say yes I'd do it again. I may not be working as fast now a days but I'd do another 6 conv. I may do one with my son here in a few years. Just need to find the right chassis for it as I have several 6 parts on hand.

With that said, what issues are you having with on the oil system?
A 2.7 should have a front oil cooler. The exhaust is pretty straight forward.

I'm actually working on getting my brothers 3.0 conv front oil cooler setup mocked up and installed here sometime this spring.

LMK if I can help.

Absolutely! Even though my car is an original 6, it really doesn't matter once that engine is out. We are just getting started on a swap from the 3.2 with Motronic injection to a '95 3.6 out of a 993. The driving experience with the 3.2 was crazy; I can't wait to drive it with the 3.6.

Regardless of your 6 engine size, I would still add an external oil cooler/thermostat. I have had had a few variations of coolers over the decades on 3 different original 6 cars:

1. 2 VW 411 coolers, 1 behind each foglight grill with a thermostat in the engine compartment on the firewall. We had flexible SS line run uo the driver side long, behind the rocker to connect it all up and we vented it out the inner wheel well. Worked quite well, but I lost my foglight. As you can see, it was very crude, it was 1984, and these cars were really not worth a lot.

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2. On my current 6, it came to me with 1/2" copper pipe plumbed and soldered from the engine all the way to the front, behind the passenger side rocker and across the nose and ball again- think large trombone style and that worked well- or so I was told by the former owner.

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3. My current, and favorite set-up, is using a set of GT hard lines up the driver side long that terminate just inside the driver footwell. Then I have a rubber hose with AN fittings that go from there to inside the frunk and connect to a Setrab oil cooler mounted across the nose. Currently, the thermostat is mounted in the trunk but that is being relocated to where I believe it should be located, on the engine firewall to the right of the motor mount. That is what I had with the 3.2 and it worked fine. I did have the GT opening in my bumper as well as valance. But I did not cut the nose open- we just pulled the 5 rubber plugs out of the nose panel rot allow air to flow.

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4. We are now going to replace that Setrab cooler with a larger cooler, about 1" taller and 3" wider and a slosh thicker. We will add 3 4" fans right on the backside of the cooler to pull air through the cooler and we will then have an aluminum shroud that covers and seals all of that, venting it out the louvered floor of the trunk.

Anyway, hopefully that gives you a few ideas.

Cheers,
Michael

Absolutely! My 2.7 with Weber carbs and SC cam grind, plus Clewett crank fire, transformed the car. I recommend a front oil cooler for total peace of mind.

Hold tight - might be a nice real /6 with a 2.7L coming up for sale soon.

Front cooler

Heck yes I would do it over 100 times. I run a front cooler even with my 2.4 just because

Needs a few odds and ends

When the car is painted and you start bolting on shiny new parts, thats when the fun starts and you can see the progress. The first drive is just the frosting.Click to view attachment

Definitely worth it. I bought my 75 914 back in 86 with immediate plans to convert it to a six. I bought a used 1974 2.7 with a top end overhaul. Bought new PMO webers back then $1k with everything. Headers, motor mount and muffler from MSDS. I tried to run it without an external oil cooler in California but it ran too hot, so I bought a setrab cooler from PMS and the shroud from Getty. Very simple conversion. Back date the flywheel to a 2.0 six flywheel and MB911 and others sell aftermarket tin, oil tanks and mounts. I did it in my garage with a Haynes manual, floor jack and jack stands. In 2000 I switched to a stock 3.2 and now I’m upgrading to a 3.6. Lots of pro’s and con’s, but the 2.7 with webers works the best with a stock geared trans for a street and occasional auto cross car.

Sounds near unanimous, thank you all and I guess keep the course is the answer. Being in the Northeast I will run her for a while without an external(front) oil cooler. I have seen the oil thermostats are labeled as 180 degrees. Don't we want closer to 210 - 220 oil temps?

Currently fitting the Goodridge ends to the SST flex hose is kicking my a**. I ordered the tool from Pegasus earlier to assist with this operation.

Is there a magic crows foot to reach the -16 fitting on the bottom of the oil tank in the fenderwell?

I find it’s better to attach the hose to the bottom of the tank and then slide it into place. It sort of rolls in.

Yes ^ 10

I wish this internet mythology of 180 degree oil would go away but I accept that it will continue forever.

There’s hardly a modern car running oil at 180F under load, and both the oil, and engines last much longer than they ever have. This isn’t a coincidence.

Likewise don’t let people fool you that air cooled is different. Air cooled motorcycles and cars have always run hotter oil than water pumpers. Oil doesn’t magically disintegrate at 250F as some would have you believe.

Running the fan with right sized pulleys and heat block off plates on engine both help with cooling. 2.7's do run on the hotter size. I have a 2.7 with mod S cams and j&E pistons getting ready for the street. We are running the Taormina racing oil block off with oil cooler up front. The oil line fitting kit from Pegasus helps a lot.
Here to help.
Matt

That photo says it all. A magnet for the ladies.
Also, I sometimes start to chuckle when I drive because it is so fun. Such a great car. I can also say that my rustoration of a four cylinder has taken longer.

My cooler is beside the transmission. I want the frunk space. Uses a pair of fans. Since I like to cover distances I also added taller fourth and fifth gears.

When the P.O. built my car he stuck with the CIS pistons to keep the compression low (single plug, rs cams, MFI about 220hp) and with a high efficiency engine mounted cooler the oil maxes out at 230f on hot days pushing hard or in traffic.

How hot is too hot was discussed a bunch in this thread.

Still considering options but I've decided to live with it as is for the time being.

Even though I have one /6 I'm considering building another. Its a fun ride!

Pete

Pete,

I consider 230F a maximum oil temp for short periods only. I will try running without an external oil cooler and see what happens. Thanks for more positive comments in the YES column

no way, cannot find all of the parts easily, parts are way too expensive, and try to find a mechanic to do it!!!! NO WAY own a nice fuel injected four cylinder and buy a 911 to complement it

Absolutely,

The 914 should have been built with a six, and a better one than the 2.0L T motor it came with. It is a far better handling chassis than a 911, and way more fun to drive.

Fitting a 911 engine is not a trivial matter, but fairly easy. The chassis was designed for it.

And it makes the car so much more fun to drive.

And I was having a ball with our 2056 with twin Webers.

Can't wait to have this baby going, with everyones help here, it will be coming closer.

Thanks all

George - if you need help finding the parts, Just let me know. 95% of it can be found from the vendors on this site
Maddog motorsports for engine mounts
MSDS for headers
914-6Werkshop for oil tank, engine tin and more
Lots of other small but needed parts from the many other vendors and enthusiasts.
Not everyone can afford a real six but with the parts above, they can make one similar to what Porsche made, in their own garage.
There are shops across the country that can do the conversion but many successful diy.
Restoration Design and Dansk set real metal flares if you like the GT look.

I really love my -6 conversion as well, much more than the stock 2.0/four and big-bore four I had previously. I'm not sure I would do it again from scratch these days vs. trying to find a good starting point or finished car. Even if you have shops do a lot of the major work, it's still a huge project management effort, cost and wait.

Looking back to be honest I sometimes wish I had not modified my car to such an extreme degree as it was probably 80% as fun in its lower-powered narrowbody config back about 20 yrs ago, and the flares and other changes incurred a lot of added cost and compromised it more heavily towards track-usage. Bigger tires are a tad more expensive. But it's a total blast and could fairly easily be reconfigured back to more streetable hot-rod.

Re external coolers - I would do it but suppose it somewhat depends on your locale and usage. I've had a large one up front for 20 years as my car was set up for tracks like Willow Springs with >100F ambient temps in summertime. (I have a dyno sheet from a POC event there which shows 104F.)

Do it again, Absolutely. In fact I am building a second as my "keeper" with what I learned and can do better second time around. Keeping first until second is done ( I need an example of how things go together as my second car is total stripped .
I would plan on a cooler with a 2.7.

john

2 years isn't so bad, I'm going on 15 on mine I'm sure it'll be nice when/if it ever gets done. In hind-sight someone like me should have just kept me really good running 2.0 (carb'ed with a mild-hot carb cam) and enjoyed it. Final house project is starting this spring and the kiddo is almost 10. As I say every year, this might be the year
I have all the parts, so that hard part is done.

When it's all said and done I'm sure it'll be a blast having a classic car that is modern car quick

Getting more unanimous by the minute, thanks again to all contributors. This a project management job, getting all the parts/pieces to flow together. More than one respondent has mentioned the word "blast" when describing the driving sensation.

Our 930 is cool, the '75 911S is cool, '75 914 2056 is cool, Alfa spider is cool, but this is sounding the most cool of all.

thanks for all the help

I would do it again. Heck, I bought an already converted 914-6 because I didn't want to build one and wound up redoing everything anyway.

The only caveat about building another conversion is I wouldn't convert a nice 914-4 anymore. Good 914's are out there, but getting harder to find.

Would do it again. The performance is outstanding with the 3.2. I do un the front oil cooler. Never gets above 200. That’s summer time in traffic after a long run. I even installed an electric fan to pull air thru when in traffic. Pulls the heat right out and will run at 190°.
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Car looks good Dave. Hope to see you this summer.
Matt

[l, but this is sounding the most cool of all.

thanks for all the help
[/quote]
Because it is.

Is it worth it, sure.

Just remember to double the time and cost expected to get it just right.

Ok, Ok, that is slightly mellow dramatic but you get the idea.

Have had mine since 12-70 and did the suspension, brakes, sway bars, etc back in the mid 70's when you could easily get the parts at your local P+A dealer (and a 20% off coupon won at a local PCA event helped!)... sold my real 6 in early 2000's and regretted every day since but I was never getting rid of my first car so knew eventually I'd put the engine in it to complete the process.
Have the 2.4 ready to assemble- hopefully doing a repaint and will install the engine mount and get body ready for the oil tank this year as I'm not getting any younger!!

I’m on my second 914-6 conversion, the first was already converted but needed a tear down and rebuild. Surprisingly that only took about a year, whereas the second took five years start to finish and is just now nearly complete.

I sometimes think the journey of the build is more engaging then the finished car but I’m a glutton for punishment.

There are few other cars that are this fun.

More details:

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1. considering a heat shield between the header/oil cooler
2. -16 oil line fitting is 1/8" from header, dimple header?
3. Large 1/2" or so gap from top of engine tin to rubber gasket

It must end somewhere

If I was doing this for a customer the hours rack up quickly

This is my 75 914 for 42 years. 3.2 engine, A/C ,programable injection, front oil cooler,
915 trans, C2 F&R brakes, 911 dash, 911 seats, 911 console, ect.
PHX Flight concord winer.Click to view attachment Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

1. No
2. No
3. Don't worry about that yet.

I like to wrap or sleeve the oil lines from the oil cooler connection back to the oil tank. I have never done it near the oil cooler exit. Keep that open.

Matt

Thanks Matt, nice pics btw

All of our lines are sleeved with heat sleeve
Including exiting the cooler

Just keep pushing on the project. Small steps every day. This is the six now.
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This is the bottom of Mrs. Murphy a track car that spent its last life at the Glenn for years. Car was 100% track car before me. The heat guard/insulation wrapped around the header was the only thing protecting the oil line for a long time. Do I think it’s right or correct, no. But it is an example of what has been done and used.
MattClick to view attachment

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I would call this a necessary tool for assembling the stainless steel braided hoses used with these conversions. Try without the correct tools and see how far you get. I was unaware this existed until I found the information on the Pegasus website. Patrick made no mention of this

Curious what the actual tool looks like & does. I have a set of aluminum AN wrenches but do not recall using any other tools in particular when I did some of the plumbing on mine.

It helps assemble the an fitting into hose fully and without the stab wounds associated with the duct tape method

I’ve built race cars both ways
Wouldn’t go back

I will get a pic tomorrow, but the tool is basically a funnel to get the hose into the fitting. It's a tight fit and the small stainless steel wires always get in the way

It makes inserting the hose into the fitting so easy, it’s fun. I could give the tool and a piece of ss hose to my wife and she could fit it in a minute. I showed how they work to a long time race car mechanic and he immediately bought a set. The other tool to buy are hose cutting shears. Sure, you can use a cutting wheel but then you have to clean the hose from all the debris. The shears take seconds, then a half minute using the kool tool and your hoses will look perfect. Definitely worth the money.
When you get the kool tool, you might think it’s a bit pricey for the money. That is until you try it. Genius idea for a pita process.

I've had mine in for a few years now, with trips from Minnesota to Utah and back, and another from Minnesota to Idaho and back, I can say with 90% certainty that I would not do a 6-swap again, but I would likely do a Subaru swap of some sort.

Even now there's a small part of me that wants to pull the 6 out, sell it, and put a Suby in. Only real challenge there is that I cut off the old 4-cyl mounts when I put the 6 in...