I was screwing around with the wiring on my radio yesterday and heard a snap crackle pop. Now my radio and my wipers don't work. Not sure why. I didn't think they were hooked up on the same fuse. Besides that, I have checked all fuses and everything appears to be good. I checked the fuse panel, none are blown. I replaced one fuse on the stereo as is blew but the other one was fine.

Everything worked before I attempted to "clean up the wiring." Now the wipers and rado are MIA. Any suggestions? Below shows where I hooked the radio into the fuse panel. Any advice is appreciated!

Did I ask a question on the day that no one has answers??

It dosen't rain in Scottsdale.......and you don't need no stinkin' radio.




No help here but at least I'm listening.

I know it doesn't rain here but I would like them working for the RRC. I hear that other parts of the country actually get rain. I gots to be prepared. As for the radio, if I don't get it fixed I am going to be forced into listening to my passenger yap yap yap the whole way to Moab.

Did you do an continuity test on the "unblown" fuse to make sure? Sometimes they LOOK OK...

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Sep 12 2005, 01:10 PM)

Did you do an continuity test on the "unblown" fuse to make sure? Sometimes they LOOK OK...

After I posted this topic I replaced the fuse just to be safe. Still no dice.

First things first my good man.

Does the terminal that the stereo wire goes into have juice? On both sides?

How about the fuse for the wipers? Got's juice?

Pick a point and start... gotta give a little something to go on.

QUOTE (MW 914 @ Sep 12 2005, 01:10 PM)

I know it doesn't rain here but I would like them working for the RRC.  I hear that other parts of the country actually get rain.  I gots to be prepared.

Rain-X


John

QUOTE (tdgray @ Sep 12 2005, 01:19 PM)

First things first my good man. Does the terminal that the stereo wire goes into have juice? On both sides? How about the fuse for the wipers? Got's juice? Pick a point and start... gotta give a little something to go on.

I will get out there tonight and check everywhere I can think to check and report back with the findings.

Ok....I went out with a test light and this is what I found....for all I know this is the way it should be. The 3 on the right had power on both sides of the fus at all times. The 4th from the right only had power when the ignition is on. All the others had nothing at all times. Does that help you guys trouble shoot my problem? If not, give me some more advice and send me back out there!

That's expected. Red wires carry battery power 100% of the time. Black wires carry switched power. Several of the fuses only have power when the ignition is on. Several of them have power all the time. There's a Pelican article that explains what each fuse does.

Well...

Now you know you have power. I believe this is the correct way those fuses should work, double check the pelican article.

Next thing to check is the ground on both malfunctioning units. Got's good ground?

After that is confirmed start checking related wiring to said components.

Have you tried to run a designated "hot wire" to both yet. If not try it.

QUOTE (tdgray @ Sep 13 2005, 12:31 PM)

Next thing to check is the ground on both malfunctioning units. Got's good ground?

Electrical school for dummies......

How do I check for a good ground?

Brown wires are grounds, so find all of the brown wires coming out of the thing that's not working, and follow them to whereever they connect to the body. Visually inspect things make sure there's no corrosion, and try testing the connection with a meter (ohms setting, make sure you have 0 ohms at the connectors and a body ground point). Note that paint and muck inhibit a good connection. The best thing is to test the connector at the non-working part and another ground for something that does work (like the headlights). If you get 0 ohms between those two points, you have a good ground.

QUOTE (MW 914 @ Sep 13 2005, 12:51 PM)

QUOTE (tdgray @ Sep 13 2005, 12:31 PM) Next thing to check is the ground on both malfunctioning units. Got's good ground? Electrical school for dummies...... How do I check for a good ground?

Do you have a voltmeter or just a testlight? With a VoM you can look for continuity from across the ground wire that connects to the radio/wiper motor and the chassis. If you get an open, then your ground is bad. You can also look for something obvious with your eyes, but you have probably done that already. If you haven't, look for a burnt or loose ground point. Since you heard the snap crackle pop, you probably shorted a power to ground and burnt something. It might be evident, you may even smell it.
Your circuits might be good, and you might have killed the stereo and the switch for the wiper motor.

Basically, I would approach the stereo first because it is easy to access. Pull it out and test the power/ground that go directly to it. If they are good (12v) try to wire it directly to the fuse panel or even the battery (known good 12v and ground) to determine if you smoked the head unit.

You can repeat this procedure with the wiper motor. Thats probably more tricky due to the location of it.

If you're still not having any luck I might be able to help you out with it tonight if you are interested.

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Sep 13 2005, 01:37 PM)

Brown wires are grounds, so find all of the brown wires coming out of the thing that's not working, and follow them to whereever they connect to the body. Visually inspect things make sure there's no corrosion, and try testing the connection with a meter (ohms setting, make sure you have 0 ohms at the connectors and a body ground point). Note that paint and muck inhibit a good connection. The best thing is to test the connector at the non-working part and another ground for something that does work (like the headlights). If you get 0 ohms between those two points, you have a good ground.

Ok, so I hooked one wire from the meter to this connector on the wiper assembly and the other wire to a good ground and the meter went to zero. Was this correct? If so, where to check next?

MW914,

You say you have power on Fuse S8 (Fourth from the right) when the ignition is on but, your radio and wipers don't work?

There are three RD/BK wires on the output side of S8. If you have power on both sides of S8 then you should have power on the wipers, the cigarette lighter and the fresh air blower. If your radio (connected at S8) and the wipers don't work, then there is a disconnect in logic (as well as power) somewhere.

Recommend you replace the fuse on S8 and carefully recheck for 12 Volts on both sides of S8. Also, check the fresh air blower (center console) and cigarette lighter for 12 Volts when the ignition is on. Let us know what you find.

Thanks,

Phil

Thanks for the offer Jason. I have to meet with clients tonight, however.

The pin you connected to on the wiper motor assembly is "chassis ground". Therefore, you were reading ground to ground, i.e., zero.

Phil

QUOTE (94teener @ Sep 13 2005, 02:17 PM)

The pin you connected to on the wiper motor assembly is "chassis ground". Therefore, you were reading ground to ground, i.e., zero. Phil

First of all, thanks to all of you guys for walking me through this. It has all been great info.

1 - Now, since I checked the wrong ground on the wiper assembly, where should I have attached to?

2 - My stereo WAS wired to the 5th fuse from the right. So I moved it over to the fourth. Now the stereo works but I have no idea if moving it to that fuse will create any other problems. Anyone?

3 - Stereo working is good...but still no wipers.

The forth from the right (S8) is a good place for the radio. You could have connected it at the back of the cigarette lighter instead, it's electrically the same place.

The wipers look like a separate issure now.

Good luck at it,

Phil

QUOTE (94teener @ Sep 13 2005, 02:10 PM)

MW914,   You say you have power on Fuse S8 (Fourth from the right) when the ignition is on but, your radio and wipers don't work?

A couple of suggestions: Get a schematic (if you don't have one), and always disconnect the battery when moving wires or the fuse panel. There are way too many wires in this car which have a direct connection to the battery without a fuse.

Fuse 8 in my schematic operates the wipers, ciggy lighter, as well as the idiot light for oil pressure, blinkers, backup light, idiot light for the alternator, and low fuel light. If this circuit is dead, all of these should be out. Also Fuse 8 in my schematic is the fifth from the right.

When the key is in the on position with the engine off, the oil pressure and alternator lights should be out. Don't leave the key in the ON position with the engine on for long as the distributor points or coil could overheat or if you have a Pertronix unit, it could be damaged.

Fuses listed on my schematic are:

1. High beam left
2. High beam right
3. Dimmer left
4. Dimmer right
5. Clearance light left
6. Clearance light right
7. License plate light
8. Brake, Blinker, Backup light, wiper, cig lighter
9. Fresh air blower, Horn, Heater fan
10. Fog Lamp
11. Interior light, warning light, buzzer
12. Motor for retractable headlight.

Good luck

Spoke

Again, thanks for all the help. It looks like I'll take it to the shop for this one. All lights, lighters, horn, stereo etc work properly. Just no wipers.

It is easy to mistake S9 for S8 on the inadequate diagrams in the Haynes Manual and elsewhere, I know, I've done it but, the only thing S8 supplies power to are the lighter, wipers and fresh air blower.

Phil

Now I am hell bent to fix this.

After reading Phil's post and upon a second evaluation, the lighter, fresh air fan and wipers are not working. So can I conclude that it is a problem with the fuse #8(counting 8 over from the left)? The fuse is good, I checked it, replaced it, checked it again, replaced it, checked it for continuity....again. The fuse is good. So what next?

QUOTE (MW 914 @ Sep 13 2005, 03:43 PM)

Now I am hell bent to fix this. After reading Phil's post and upon a second evaluation, the lighter, fresh air fan and wipers are not working. So can I conclude that it is a problem with the fuse #8(counting 8 over from the left)? The fuse is good, I checked it, replaced it, checked it again, replaced it, checked it for continuity....again. The fuse is good. So what next?

The fuse is good, but are you getting power to both sides of the fuse? The problem may be upstream of the fuse.

There isn't power on either side of the fuse...near as I can tell. Where would I check next? What is between the fuse panel and the power source(which I assume it the battery?)

Edit: From your above post, obviously you've checked the fuse location.

It sounds like you are on the right track. If you lost the whole circuit, you definitely lost the power side of the circuit, as opposed to the ground side. Logic being all those devices (wipers, lighter etc...) all have their own grounds.

Have you checked the offending fuse location for 12v? I can only assume if you moved the radio to a new location, you don't have 12v at the fuse. Use your test light and check that fuse location 12v. Then you can figure out if it is upstream or downstream.

QUOTE (MW 914 @ Sep 13 2005, 05:13 PM)

There isn't power on either side of the fuse...near as I can tell.  Where would I check next?  What is between the fuse panel and the power source(which I assume it the battery?)

If there's no power on the battery side of fuse 8, then the wire to the battery may have been toasted. If you can follow the wire to where it goes, check the power there. Again while you're tracing and moving wires, disconnect the battery.

Right by the fuse panel behind the speaker in the footwell, there's a +12V terminal lug which brings power from the battery with one fat wire, and distributes power to the fuse panel with several smaller wires. The bad wire may be terminated here. You may have to run a new wire from the this lug to the fuse panel. Disconnect the battery before doing any investigation.

Sorry to reiterate about disconnecting the battery but snap-crackle-pop are only good noises in Rice Crispies.

Spoke