I'm thinking of cleaning up my garage a tad. I've got several projects and some rental home rennovations going and it's just too busy. I've decided I will be on the track as soon as possible (whatever that means), so I have several options on what I can do.

I have a car currently being built (The BEAST). I also have a pretty V8 donor car (JLO). I've got spare 914 / 911 parts up the wahzoo....

I may continue with the "BEAST" build. I may pull the plug. I can get into an existing race car for about the same money as my current project, although The BEAST is new from ground up. I won't get that.

My question is: Is it our collective opinion that I would make more money back assembling finished cars and selling? Or parting out? I have the race car, I have JLO with EVERY part needed to finish it's V8 Renegade conversion in my garage. I have a 3.6 993 motor and full blown WEVO flipped tranny with every imaginable upgrade. I could make JLO a V8 or I could put the 3.6 in her. I could finish the race car (seems like bad return on money versus selling the parts).

What do you folks think would be the best way to recoup "some" of my money and get back to racing? This will help me with my cost analysis to help me think through my options. You get to help me with my homework.

Parts / Cars list:

Let's start with "The BEAST"

914 chassis.
Suspension points raised 2 inches in the body.
Full cage.
Fuel Cell.
Adjustable Sway bars. (SMART bar Front)
2 way adjustable shocks (Advanced Design).
Coil over fronts
JZR 4 pot racing brakes
Sheridan Body Kit
Roller Bearing suspension
Body work and chassis can be painted and car partially assembled.

Motor: 1995 993 3.6 with stock ECU. Has Patrick Motorsports coated 1 3/4 inch headers with O2. Motor has been dyno'd. All PMS clutch, DME, etc installed on motor.

Trans: Flipped 915 transmission fully rebuilt with new bearings, synchros, etc. WEVO 914 conversion end cover. WEVO gateshift internal. New bearing retainer assembly. New Paul Guard 80% LSD. Trans has been machined for external oil cooler.

WEVO reduced throw shift

Tires:

(4) 22x10x16 Hoosier R45 Bias Ply slicks (NEW)
(4) 23.5x11.5x16 Hoosier R45 Bias Ply slicks (NEW)
(2) 23.5x10.5x16 Goodyear R600 Bias Ply slicks (NEW)
(2) 25x13x16 Goodyear R600 Bias Ply slicks (NEW)

Wheels:

(4) HRE mesh 16x10 5 5/8 inch offset racing rims
(4) Diamond Racing 16x10 5.25 inch offset racing rims (NEW)
(2) Diamond Racing 16x12 5.25 inch offset racing rims (NEW)

Now let's look at JLO:

1975 914 finished car with STEEL GT extra wide flares. No rust. Everything there minus engine and trans. Yellow. 17x8 front rims and 17x9.5 rears (Borbet).

Motor and trans in my garage:

350 SBC V8. Demon 4bbl carb. HEI. Edelbrock Performer Alum heads and Intake manifold. Comp Cam. RH headers. Flowmaster 40's. Dyno'd at 380HP and 300 ft/lbs torque. Not a beater engine. Fully rebuilt to Renegade Hybrid (RH) specs (Wild Bill).

The engine has the RH serpentine system assembled on it with A/C compressor.

Tranny is a rebuilt tall gear ratio 4 speed 901 from RH. It is currently mated to the SBC utilizing RH conversion gear. I have all RH conversion parts including radiator / fan system, underdash heat and A/C system, RH engine cradle, tranny mounts, complete wiring harness installed on motor, etc....

I've got more goodies I could list, but you get the picture.

What are the opinions of the collective? Decision timing for me is to figure this out in the next 2 to 4 weeks.

Thanks,

Bill P.

Since it sounds like everything you own is in pieces, I'd sell the pieces separately. I believe you'll make more (if not most) of your money back in parts vs finished car anyway.

Do you know if your '75 chassis is smog exempt? I forget when exactly the cut-off was; I know '74's are exempt. Anyway, someone might be leary of buying a conversion car so close to the smog cut-off.

Disclaimer: The above advice wasn't given just because I'd like to buy some of your parts

QUOTE (nine14cats @ Oct 9 2005, 10:00 PM)

I have a 3.6 993 motor and full blown WEVO flipped tranny with every imaginable upgrade.

if you need a place to store the 3.6L for a while, i could keep it in my car for you ...

Andy

PS: if only i had some $$$ ... hmmmm, WEVO

Thanks Jon,

JLO is smog exempt in CA.

Bill P.

DAD! I FOUND YOU!





M

QUOTE (jonwatts @ Oct 9 2005, 09:10 PM)

Since it sounds like everything you own is in pieces, I'd sell the pieces separately. I believe you'll make more (if not most) of your money back in parts vs finished car anyway. Do you know if your '75 chassis is smog exempt? I forget when exactly the cut-off was; I know '74's are exempt. Anyway, someone might be leary of buying a conversion car so close to the smog cut-off. Disclaimer: The above advice wasn't given just because I'd like to buy some of your parts

1975 is exempt. 1976 is NOT exempt.

I know what it's like to feel overwhelmed, but I also know what it's like to sell a half-completed project due to time pressures and later regret it when the time pressures go away.

In terms of actual dollar returns, I'd agree with Jon. Parts sell for more than the collective whole. Someone itching to do a V8 conversion would be well advised to just buy your engine/gearbox setup and slot it into their chassis. JLO's chassis is nice enough that the right buyer with a spare drivetrain already would be interested.

so the beast build is getting to you Bill?
Sorry to hear that. I was looking forward to instructing you and Doris in that car.
Did I understand you post to say that you were going to sell the projects and then buy a ready built racecar?
WOW!

Sell the red headed orphan (sorry conversion guys) and use that money to finish the Beast.
Just kidding.
Both of your projects are interesting and unfortunately, extensive and expensive.
I think you need to decide if what you have done thus far on both or either is worth continuing the particular project.
Money is one thing...pride and the feeling of completion are an entirely different situation.
I know in particular you were very high on the Beast.
I am sure that the slow response times from the build team doesn't help matters.
Good luck and best on your final decisions.

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Oct 9 2005, 09:22 PM)

I know what it's like to feel overwhelmed, but I also know what it's like to sell a half-completed project due to time pressures and later regret it when the time pressures go away. In terms of actual dollar returns, I'd agree with Jon. Parts sell for more than the collective whole. Someone itching to do a V8 conversion would be well advised to just buy your engine/gearbox setup and slot it into their chassis. JLO's chassis is nice enough that the right buyer with a spare drivetrain already would be interested.

completely with James.

My buddy Brandon just sold his 64 Alfa Guilia Sprint GT he's been waiting almost 6 years for the right time to work on. Time will tell if he regrets this decision or it'll open up a whole new world of freedom for him. Sometimes it's hard to tell if the project is getting you down, or if life is getting you down and the projects take the heat. I don't envy your situation.

But to answer your question, I agree that you'll probably see more money selling the parts rather than the whole.

I agree that the parts will bring you more money more quickly.
I dunno if I could bring myself to selling the beast tho.....too many dreams/ideas there to pitch out.
Given the option (money) I could see buying a realatively cheep race car so's you can play, finishing the beast, then selling the cheep race car. I could live without the V8 car, me thinks

915, eh?.......

Thanks for the response guys. I really mean it. The race car build is just a part of the issue. The real problem is work is going to get in the way of alot of things for me. What I thought was going to be a better situation has turned out to be that for my management (I like my new company's management), but they seem to like me and now my U.S. only job has turned into global accounts again.

I'm not looking forward to the international travel....

But this little sport of ours takes alot of funding...and we have 3 kids in college with another one on deck....so......

Time will be a premium. And Doris has been a good sport about everything. I had my heart set on a GT class car, at least in suspension / tub. But with it comes lots of work, not just for the shop that builds the car, but me to keep it up and actually learn to drive. With my work situation, I may not have the time or energy to get to where I want to.

The V8 project is something I've always wanted to do, but it's been so busy lately, and will continue to be, I can't see getting to it anytime soon.

I'm trying to decide what to do. I can buy a ready made GT car (old one anyway!) or do a spec car. JP's gonna shit, but I've been looking at 996's and Boxster S's. I can do a cage in either, and in the case of a 996, throw my seats and fire system in it, get sticky buns and I'm turning lpretty fast laps at T-Hill. I could even leave the a/c in the cars....

I don't know....financially it may make more sense to finish "The BEAST" and just be more patient. I'm too far down the road on development to not take a huge financial hit on it. That's part of the reason for selling the JLO project. I feel too guilty looking at Doris who just smiles and says anything I want to do on the race cars is fine with her as long a Dan is her instructor! (what a toolwench!)

So...I've already found a 74 911 with GT bodywork on it, a low mileage 996 that would be great, and a Boxster S with really loooowwww miles. I pull the lever and they can be at my house in a matter of days. Then comes the months (years) to get rid of my parts. The tub will probably take the longest...but who knows

Honestly, I don't know what to do....although Doris says put the 3.6 in JLO, sell the rest and DE/TT/AX JLO and have fun.....hmmm....she is the smart one in the family...

Bill P.

The end result is that you want to race. So selling the Beast is not your best option. You could sell it and buy a done car, but will you be happy with what your driving? Best to sell the V8 project and use the $$ from that to finish the Beast and you will be happy with one project. You should be able to recoupe 75-80% of what you spent on the parts for the V8 car. Some one will want to build or is planning on building a highend V8 conversion.

You can step down, but you can't step up. Meaning... if you build JLO and decide you all of a sudden have time for racing, you're stuck with a car that's not ready/capable. Whereas, you can always pull the Beast out for an AX or two. But then again, maybe a car like that needs room to stretch its legs and wouldn't be suited to AX.

Hi Mark,

I think The Beast will be too much car for an auto-x contender. By that I mean I think it will be too heavy. With all the goodies on The Beast, it was being constructed for the track mainly. Auto-x would be for the social aspect.

Ugh...sometimes things are just too complicated. I just want to stomp my right foot and go!....(last time I did that was July 3rd, 2004. I stomped my right foot, missed a shift, and kaboom....I started this mess!)

Bill P.

or just put the 4 back in jlo and drive the damn thing!! no need to reinvent the wheel every time.

k

QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Oct 10 2005, 05:34 AM)

or just put the 4 back in jlo and drive the damn thing!! no need to reinvent the wheel every time. k

He's already closed that option. The 4 is in my car... I'd trade it for that V8, though.

I'd sell the V8 stuff....

Install the 3.6 into JLO (might have better resale value)

It might be easier to sell The Beast sans motor and transmission (less expense for person getting into it)

QUOTE (nine14cats @ Oct 9 2005, 11:00 PM)

with STEEL GT extra wide flares.

To be On topic, i think you would make more selling the parts. But don't forget the TIME involved in selling the parts. That can be a bitch.

Now, to be OFF topic, where do you get/who makes EXTRA WIDE steel GT flares???

Bill, didn't you get my PM's?

Put JLO in a capable shop and get it finished.
Enjoy it for a few weeks and sell the completed car.

Put "the Beast" in a shop that will finish it well before next season.

Viola!

Finding a capable shop got you down?

Now we're back to my PM's


KT

QUOTE (Mueller @ Oct 10 2005, 07:11 AM)

I'd sell the V8 stuff.... Install the 3.6 into JLO (might have better resale value) It might be easier to sell The Beast sans motor and transmission (less expense for person getting into it)

If it was me that is what I would do but then get the beast to a shop that will finish it before next season.

Man its fun to spend someone else's money

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Oct 9 2005, 09:22 PM)

QUOTE (jonwatts @ Oct 9 2005, 09:10 PM) Since it sounds like everything you own is in pieces, I'd sell the pieces separately. I believe you'll make more (if not most) of  your money back in parts vs finished car anyway. Do you know if your '75 chassis is smog exempt? I forget when exactly the cut-off was; I know '74's are exempt. Anyway, someone might be leary of buying a conversion car so close to the smog cut-off. Disclaimer: The above advice wasn't given just because I'd like to buy some of your parts 1975 is exempt. 1976 is NOT exempt. I know what it's like to feel overwhelmed, but I also know what it's like to sell a half-completed project due to time pressures and later regret it when the time pressures go away. In terms of actual dollar returns, I'd agree with Jon. Parts sell for more than the collective whole. Someone itching to do a V8 conversion would be well advised to just buy your engine/gearbox setup and slot it into their chassis. JLO's chassis is nice enough that the right buyer with a spare drivetrain already would be interested.

Actually some '76s are exempt. I don't recall the exact conditions under which they are exempt but it would of course be the earlier cars....

Rob

Two words for you Bill, SPEC BOXSTER!

QUOTE (ppickerell @ Oct 10 2005, 08:46 AM)

Two words for you Bill, SPEC BOXSTER!

and KA-BOOM goes another boxster engine.... have they solved the oiling problems on 'em yet?

part out JLO, finish the BEAST. it's a no brainer. even if you don't have too much track time in the future, you'll have a finished, beyond-capable car.

QUOTE (nine14cats @ Oct 9 2005, 10:00 PM)

What are the opinions of the collective?

PM & Email sent ...


Never mind the 914Club, here comes "The Vultures™" !!!
Andy

I wouldn't expect it any other way!

914Club at it's best....

Bill P.

QUOTE (nine14cats @ Oct 10 2005, 12:45 PM)

I wouldn't expect it any other way!

so, you got my email ???

Andy

I am looking at all the spec series cars/platforms as well as not having decided to continue or stop the Beast build. I take full responsibility for where I'm at. I tried to push different parts of the process in building the car faster than they or the situation will allow, leading to my frustration.

I had unrealistic expectations. Combine that with the killer job requirements and I have to change those expectations. JWE is a wonderful shop that does top notch work. The car I had envisioned just takes tremendous fabrication to get right. The tub itself has lots of goodies, but the things I added to it (power steering, tranny oil cooling, bodywork, etc., adds problem solving and fabrication time, and considerable cost.

I just lost site of the fact that all of this is for fun. Who wouldn't want to drive a GT class car handbuilt to your desires? But maybe I'm not cutout for the committment involved to field that type of car.

I'm figuring out what I want to do. I should have a game plan soon. It could be I stop whining and continue on, or it could be forget the whole thing and relax. Or something in between.

Given that racing is racing, and knowing how many mechanical problems I have seen 914's experience, I'm not certain that a water pumper or 993 911/914 would be any more or less money and time to do. I've just got to clear my head and decide.

I do know I'd like to play next year again. Sitting another year would be tough.

Bill P.

QUOTE (nine14cats @ Oct 10 2005, 12:30 PM)

I am looking at all the spec series cars/platforms as well as not having decided to continue or stop the Beast build. I take full responsibility for where I'm at. I tried to push different parts of the process in building the car faster than they or the situation will allow, leading to my frustration. I had unrealistic expectations. Combine that with the killer job requirements and I have to change those expectations. JWE is a wonderful shop that does top notch work. The car I had envisioned just takes tremendous fabrication to get right. The tub itself has lots of goodies, but the things I added to it (power steering, tranny oil cooling, bodywork, etc., adds problem solving and fabrication time, and considerable cost. I just lost site of the fact that all of this is for fun. Who wouldn't want to drive a GT class car handbuilt to your desires? But maybe I'm not cutout for the committment involved to field that type of car. I'm figuring out what I want to do. I should have a game plan soon. It could be I stop whining and continue on, or it could be forget the whole thing and relax. Or something in between. Given that racing is racing, and knowing how many mechanical problems I have seen 914's experience, I'm not certain that a water pumper or 993 911/914 would be any more or less money and time to do. I've just got to clear my head and decide. I do know I'd like to play next year again. Sitting another year would be tough. Bill P.

How about, buy a pre-done Boxster (or just cheap street car and throw a cage in it), run it next year, and sell it at the end of that year? Let the Beast continue on as long as it needs to. You shouldn't lose too much on the Boxster, esp. if you buy one that's already set up to race, unless you wad it up on the track. The real risk is that Doris may end up liking the Boxster so much she won't let you sell it at the end of the year.

Hi James,

That is a scary thought. Remember, I wanted power steering for the Beast for Doris. Boxster's come with power steering!

Bill P.

Bill,
I just happen to know an instructor that knows quite a bit about driving Boxster pretty fast at AX and on the track.

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Oct 10 2005, 07:04 PM)

part out JLO, finish the BEAST. it's a no brainer. even if you don't have too much track time in the future, you'll have a finished, beyond-capable car.

so quit yer whinin' and get to it

http://www.craigslist.com/pen/car/102707225.html

boxster deal

box1

box2

Doris, are you watching?

Since you don't seem to want JLO around anymore you are more than welcome to send her back where she came from.
CCLINLOVEISNEVERHAVINGTOSAYYOURSORRY

QUOTE (boxstr @ Oct 10 2005, 09:21 PM)

CCLINLOVEISNEVERHAVINGTOSAYYOURSORRY

Bill,
I know some information about the boxster that has been posted here. Drop me an email or give a call if you are interested in it.
How's the decision making going?

He replaced the engine with another 2.5?

contact Brad Roberts and see if he can help with your projects He does that sort of thing at the shop where he is working.

Bernie

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Oct 10 2005, 11:04 AM)

QUOTE (ppickerell @ Oct 10 2005, 08:46 AM) Two words for you Bill, SPEC BOXSTER! and KA-BOOM goes another boxster engine.... have they solved the oiling problems on 'em yet? part out JLO, finish the BEAST. it's a no brainer. even if you don't have too much track time in the future, you'll have a finished, beyond-capable car.

Show me someone who has had a boxster motor issue? Even if they did have an issue, a complete new motor is half the price of a comparable 6-cylinder.

I want to do a SPEC boxster so badly.

-Britain

QUOTE (Britain Smith @ Oct 10 2005, 10:03 PM)

Show me someone who has had a boxster motor issue? Even if they did have an issue, a complete new motor is half the price of a comparable 6-cylinder. I want to do a SPEC boxster so badly. -Britain

Come out to the next PCA AX and you can talk to a fella that blew his 2004 Boxster motor. I trailered the car to his home. Oil pump cooked from oil starvation in hi G corners. Those motors cost half as much cause their worth half as much....but God help ya if they're out of warrantee when they blow. They're prolly Ok if you keep it on the street....prolly.

That spec Boxster racin' my be gud if they keep em' on hardball street tires.

No matter what you do with the race car you’ll lose money if you sell. The rule is that it’s always cheaper to buy one than to do it yourself. So if you completed it and tried to sell it it’s a non proven car that needs to be set-up. Or a chassis with all the goodies then guys say that’s nice but it’s still a chassis. You’ll get more $ back by selling the parts, IE NEW shocks never used etc. Humm as you got new tires that are dry rotting I’ll give you .25 on the dollar for them….

Yep...totally understand I will lose money if I sell my stuff. I also understand I will stop losing money if I sell.

$.25 on the dollar for my tires....

We'll have to see if I can use them for planters or a swing for our pet monkey...

Bill P.

Bill,

I know what you are going through, I too have been at the point of giving up several times. When you take a step back and loook at all the time and money you have in an uncompleted car and piles of parts it makes you lose site of the path to the end. I just keep telling myself that I don't wanna be one of those people who get so far into a project and then just give up and sell it so someone else can finish it. Also, this car will be unique and be exactly what you want in terms on a race car. Same with my turbo 912 project.

If I were you, I would keep going and finish what you started. It might take a little bit longer to finish, oh well! In the end you will have something to go out and have fun in and be able to have some pride in that you did it all by yourself.

-Britain

(also, did you ship my lug bolts yet? I missed the auto-x this weekend cause I can't mount my fuchs)

Sorry life and your projects are getting ya down, Bill.

Stay the course with your dream car.

Sell the distractions if you must...

Maybe Ottmar can turn JLO into a screaming yellow electric teener

QUOTE (Britain Smith @ Oct 10 2005, 10:03 PM)

[QUOTE=nebreitling,Oct 10 2005, 11:04 AM] [QUOTE=ppickerell,Oct 10 2005, 08:46 AM] Two words for you Bill, SPEC BOXSTER! [/QUOTE] I want to do a SPEC boxster so badly. -Britain

What is a SPEC Boxster?

QUOTE (GTeener @ Oct 11 2005, 09:49 AM)

What is a SPEC Boxster?

from the english/german dictonary:

SPECK = bacon

and in a sentence:

wie die Made im Speck leben = to live off the fat of the land

Andy

QUOTE (GTeener @ Oct 11 2005, 09:49 AM)

What is a SPEC Boxster?  :confused:

A very tiny Boxster like this one




(would you like any more answers?)

Hi Gwen,

The spec series for Boxster's is a proposed series in SCCA that would give the Boxster's their own class (just like spec Miata). It is based on 1997-1999 Boxster 2.5 liter cars. You can do a few changes to the car (safety cage, H&R type suspension, adjustable swaybars, shocks - NOT PSS9's, 17 inch rims with Dot-R tires in mandated sizes, etc). No engine mods.

It is meant to keep racing costs down and competion close. A driver and their ability to tune the suspension is the differentiator.

As JP brought up, some folks have seen issues with motors and oiling. I don't know what the occurance rate is.

This new group will be out there racing in 2006.

The Boxster S spec class may follow in 2007 or 2008.

Bill P.