Dammit! It runs great on 2 cylinders!!! Except for the occasional backfire. 1 and 3 fire, 2 and 4 do not.

I dunno. I pulled all of the injectors and fuel lines in the engine bay. They're all clear. I have 29 pounds of fuel pressure. I tested all of the injectors while cranking the engine over. All squirt fuel in a nice conical pattern and the volume appears to be the same. I have spark on all cylinders. But only 1 and 3 fire. If I pull the injector connector or the plug wire off of cylinders 2 or 4, nothing changes. They are both not doing anything. If I pull either the injector connector or the plug wire from cylinders 1 or 3, the engine dies; apparently it can't run on just one cylinder, go figure.

I'm wide open to suggestions. I need a 914 fix before the weather turns to crap.



Update!
If you read all of this thread, you'll see that bondo spotted my error. I swapped wires on the dizzy for cylinders 2 and 4 and she fired right up on all four cylinders.

Ok I got the fix...
Get a pen and paper, write this down, or print it out if you like.

Box it up it's no good send it to me, I in return will send you mine. Hell I will even include the jack stands... Sorry Man, couldn't resist.. Wish I could help.... Good luck...

Gint...valves on 2 & 4 too tight (1st guess).... that was the problem with Toast's car on one cylinder.. pull plug wire or injector connector no change in engine. Once I adjusted the valves (and purposely 0.001" looser), the engine no longer had a misfire.

So sayeth Ssssssslits

QUOTE (SLITS @ Nov 4 2005, 05:04 PM)

Gint...valves on 2 & 4 too tight (1st guess).... that was the problem with Toast's car on one cylinder.. pull plug wire or injector connector no change in engine. Once I adjusted the valves (and purposely 0.001" looser), the engine no longer had a misfire. So sayeth Ssssssslits

I can check it, but I just did an adjustment less than a hundred miles ago. New plugs/cap/rotor/condensor/fuel and air filters with only a couple hundred miles that all worked great before the fuel pump quit last month. The only thing I haven't done is installed my new plug wires or swapped out plugs. I verified spark at the plug end of the wires though, and as I said, the plugs only have a couple hundred miles on them.

f.i. trigger points? they fire two at a time. mabe intermitentif fluid soaked.

only other guess is a valve adjustment.





my cent & a-half
Brian

I would pull the spark plugs on the non firing cylinders and see if they are wet with fuel. It would also be interesting to swap the injector plugs (1 & 2) and (3 & 4) and see if the dead cylinder follows the injector connection or stays the same.

If spark plugs are wet with fuel and/or the miss doesn't change with the injector plug, I would think ignition and check the dead cylinders w/ a timing light.

I know you're pretty knowledgeable so don't be insulted if this sounds too basic.

Edit: I see you checked spark - was that with the plugs out or by using timing light or similar means to check for spark under compression?

Is there any chance the plug wires got swapped between when it last ran and now? Easy thing to check.

QUOTE (Brian_Boss @ Nov 4 2005, 05:22 PM)

I would pull the spark plugs on the non firing cylinders and see if they are wet with fuel. It would also be interesting to swap the injector plugs (1 & 2) and (3 & 4) and see if the dead cylinder follows the injector connection or stays the same. If spark plugs are wet with fuel and/or the miss doesn't change with the injector plug, I would think ignition and check the dead cylinders w/ a timing light. I know you're pretty knowledgeable so don't be insulted if this sounds too basic. Edit: I see you checked spark - was that with the plugs out or by using timing light or similar means to check for spark under compression?

I did that already (injector connector swap). No change. That's what prompted me to pull the injectors. Like I said, checked the pattern and verified that they are all functional. I put new injector seals in while I was there. Verified spark at the spark plug ends of all of the plug wires.

QUOTE (bondo @ Nov 4 2005, 05:27 PM)

Is there any chance the plug wires got swapped between when it last ran and now? Easy thing to check.

The plug wires were completely off the cap. I pulled the dizzy and took it apart to clean it all out. It's in excellent condition as are the trigger points. I verified the firing order and plug wire locations several times. 1-4-3-2 counter clockwise on the cap, left bank 1 and 2 from the rear, right bank 3 and 4 from the rear. I have it memorized.

QUOTE (Brian_Boss @ Nov 4 2005, 05:22 PM)

Edit: I see you checked spark - was that with the plugs out or by using timing light or similar means to check for spark under compression?

Pulled the wires at the plug end and checked them for spark against ground. And ofcourse with me as the ground (I hate doing that).

You got me....you said you have fuel to the injectors (so it's not a harness electrical or trigger point problem) and you have spark (not electrical).....and it backfires occasionaly...what's left?

closed gap on the plugs

to open a gap on the plugs

brigded gap on the plugs

dead plugs

crossed wires

valves

I'm off with the fam to the Nuggets game. Keep those suggestions coming gang! I'm going through and verifying a thought process if nothing else.

QUOTE (SLITS @ Nov 4 2005, 05:36 PM)

You got me....you said you have fuel to the injectors (so it's not a harness electrical or trigger point problem) and you have spark (not electrical).....and it backfires occasionaly...what's left? closed gap on the plugs to open a gap on the plugs brigded gap on the plugs dead plugs crossed wires valves

My thoughts too (except for the crossed wires - verified that already). I'll go after a plug swap and valve adjustment check tomorrow.

QUOTE (Gint @ Nov 4 2005, 05:29 PM)

QUOTE (bondo @ Nov 4 2005, 05:27 PM) Is there any chance the plug wires got swapped between when it last ran and now? Easy thing to check. The plug wires were completely off the cap. I pulled the dizzy and took it apart to clean it all out. It's in excellent condition as are the trigger points. I verified the firing order and plug wire locations several times. 1-4-3-2 counter clockwise on the cap, left bank 1 and 2 from the rear, right bank 3 and 4 from the rear. I have it memorized.

Umm... my engine has it 1-4-3-2 CLOCKWISE on the cap, looking from the top of the cap. methinks this is a clue to your problem..

QUOTE (bondo @ Nov 4 2005, 05:56 PM)

QUOTE (Gint @ Nov 4 2005, 05:29 PM) QUOTE (bondo @ Nov 4 2005, 05:27 PM) Is there any chance the plug wires got swapped between when it last ran and now? Easy thing to check. The plug wires were completely off the cap. I pulled the dizzy and took it apart to clean it all out. It's in excellent condition as are the trigger points. I verified the firing order and plug wire locations several times. 1-4-3-2 counter clockwise on the cap, left bank 1 and 2 from the rear, right bank 3 and 4 from the rear. I have it memorized. Umm... my engine has it 1-4-3-2 CLOCKWISE on the cap, looking from the top of the cap. methinks this is a clue to your problem..

been there done that!!! LOL

1 4 3 2 and only one and 3 fire. swap plugs on 2 and 4

If you aren't dislexic(sp) about the 1432 ccw thing, then Bondo and Aaron are correct. Otherwise I would look at valve adjusement.

Good luck

QUOTE (vsg914 @ Nov 4 2005, 06:43 PM)

If you aren't dislexic(sp) about the 1432 ccw thing, then Bondo and Aaron are correct. Otherwise I would look at valve adjusement. Good luck

BINGO!

Distributor rotation (and firing order) is CLOCKWISE.........

yep. I done that too,



but I knew better than to tell about it.

QUOTE (SGB @ Nov 4 2005, 07:32 PM)

yep. I done that too, but I knew better than to tell about it.

happens to the best of us..... (like ED and slits....)

Mike Doe's this car have the injector resistor pack?? If yes you may have a broken wire on one of the resistors.
CCLINBTDT

QUOTE (bondo @ Nov 4 2005, 05:56 PM)

QUOTE (Gint @ Nov 4 2005, 05:29 PM) QUOTE (bondo @ Nov 4 2005, 05:27 PM) Is there any chance the plug wires got swapped between when it last ran and now? Easy thing to check. The plug wires were completely off the cap. I pulled the dizzy and took it apart to clean it all out. It's in excellent condition as are the trigger points. I verified the firing order and plug wire locations several times. 1-4-3-2 counter clockwise on the cap, left bank 1 and 2 from the rear, right bank 3 and 4 from the rear. I have it memorized. Umm... my engine has it 1-4-3-2 CLOCKWISE on the cap, looking from the top of the cap. methinks this is a clue to your problem..

We have a winner! Yes! Thanks! I knew it was me doing something stupid. The firing order is 1432 clockwise around the dizzy. I got it in my head backwards and that had to right dammit.

Of course I haven't tried it yet. But I know that's it. Took the fam to the Denver Nuggets game. 39 point win. That doesn't happen evey game for the Nugs!

Thanks to all. I'll be driving a topless 914 tomorrow!

too funny mike....

stupid shit that makes these cars fun.


i remember trying to get my car running with the mallory, and the plugs were off 90 degrees..... and a hellacious backfire happens



check your blinker fluid while your in there though

...and the muffler bearing. While I'm in there...

upgrade to the O-Pipe and get the engine oil bypass.....


b

slight hi-jack...would a 311 905 205 AE distributor work on a FI 2.0L?

type 3 was D-jet...it was a 1.6L though. might have some translation issues between models, but in therory it should work fine. that is as long as the trigger point signal occurs on the same points as the 2.0L one. I have a 2.0 dizzy for not much. pm me if you need.

b

I might be interested in it Britt. Can you tell me the part number? Is the shaft and housing in good shape (no wobble)?

i have 2

1: the distributor that came with my car. no side-to-side wobble, small up-down movement. I rebuilt it myself, thinking my problems were in the dizzy, when it ended up being my FI system. I'll let it go real cheap.

2:this one is a rebuilt bosch dizzy from napa. I know the owners at NAPA, so they take care of me. same as the other one, no side movement in shaft, very little movement in Y-direction. Pretty much they are same...which surprised me. this one will go for a bit more. I ended up buying two dizzy's online.


both work fine.

OK, let me ask again, can you get me th epart number (for both now)?

And, you rebuilt it? What specifically did you do to rebuild it?

I cleaned it out. I'll PM you part numbers soon. I just woke up and I'm still in PJs

b

No that the rain has stopped I went out and swapped the wires for cylinders 2 and 4 on the dizzy. She fired right up and purred like a kitten on all 4 cylinders. Thanks gang.

no dizzy needed then?

b

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Nov 5 2005, 10:49 AM)

no dizzy needed then? b

I never said that. Actually, the part number on mine leads me to believe that it is a 1.7 unit. I'd be amazed if the advance curve is the same. I'd like to pick up a spare 2.0 dizzy to do some foolin around.

Part numbers please. And pics wouldn't hurt.

i'll get the part numbers.....

and pics.


b

on the original:

039 905 205A
(B ) 0 231 174 011

on the rebuilt one:
cant read the orig number (looks the same, probably used a different case)
(B ) 0 231 169 011

i'll post pics in a minute. I need to take a nap before my 4-year old brother wakes up. Wears me out

we'll go out and take pics.

b

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Nov 5 2005, 12:57 PM)

on the original: 039 905 205A (B ) 0 231 174 011 on the rebuilt one: cant read the orig number (looks the same, probably used a different case) (B ) 0 231 169 011 i'll post pics in a minute. I need to take a nap before my 4-year old brother wakes up. Wears me out we'll go out and take pics. b

When you go out to take pics, get a better idea of the part numbers on that second unit. I can't figure out what that one is.

the B part is the one with the Bosch symbol next to it....

the actual part number has been deleted.

b

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Nov 5 2005, 02:07 PM)

the B part is the one with the Bosch symbol next to it.... the actual part number has been deleted. b

I know that. I should have been more specific. I can't find any reference to that particular Bosch part number. Brad Anders table doesn't list it at all.

I found the following:

73 RS Carrera distributor?

http://reactornet.net/gallery/view_album.p...bumName=album04

that's what I know. It came on my stock 2 Liter engine.

b

0 231 169 011 (also intechanges to 0 231 184 004)

Porsche #911 602 031 03..... It's a friggin 6 cylinder Britt

09/71 thru 08/73 911 2.4E 165HP


0 231 174 011

Porsche 039 905 205A

07/73 thru 07/74 Porsche 914 2.0L USA



Nice to know it runs Gint. Can I buy your jackstands?

ron.....


no.

the rebuilders used a core case, which happened to be from a six.

works 100% super on my 914.

b

i had the same problem a few years ago. i would look again at the trigger points, real close this time.they can get screwed up inside, as well as at the electrical plug outside. they can also just not work for whatever reason.if you have another dizzy, swap it out and see if that helps. i would bet the problem is there.
another option is install carbs.

QUOTE (SLITS @ Nov 8 2005, 10:25 AM)

Nice to know it runs Gint. Can I buy your jackstands?

That actually gave me a really good laugh Ron, thanks! I own 2 914's. Just because they're not on jackstands now doesn't mean they won't be by the end of the week.

QUOTE (Triaddave @ Nov 8 2005, 12:00 PM)

i had the same problem a few years ago. i would look again at the trigger points, real close this time.they can get screwed up inside, as well as at the electrical plug outside. they can also just not work for whatever reason.if you have another dizzy, swap it out and see if that helps. i would bet the problem is there. another option is install carbs.

Thanks Dave. You missed a piece of the thread though. It's running again. I had the firing order backwards on the distributor resulting in 2 and 4 swapped. It's usually the little things that getchya.

Joe