china and korea would not be good for me. I'm not talking about losing the normal freedoms that america has. I'm talking about getting rid of the losers in our society who will never do any good.

the really SCARY part about this question is that BRAD most certainly WOULD come out and rescue YOU!
IF you can get ahold of HIM ....

Andy

No offense taken. If feel that the police have plenty of power already. It does bother me though, that they have to spend so much time dealing with repeat offenders. When somenone commits a crime and is caught, the consequences should be sufficient to insure that the individual changes their behavior.

It's like that class of kids who got caught cheating on a term test worth 1/3 of their grade. They were all failed and the parents pitched a big fit demanding the kids pass, etc. How sad. If my child was one of them I would have demanded that the rule be applied and my child fail and repeat the class. Learning the moral lesson is much more valuable than the cost of making up a class.

-Ben M.

How did the attorney and family of this kid know that he yelled for 10-15 minutes and what he said? Were they there? Did the kid tell them that.

Purely speculation on their part to make the complaint seem valid.

If I were running and "hiding" from the police, I certainly wouldn't "announce" my position and coordinates.

NICE. Nothing like checking in and seeing people DUKE it out.


Lawyers.Lawyers.Lawyers.Lawyers.Lawyers.Lawyers.
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Have now taken responsibility for OUR actions.

I think its great that I can KILL someone and be put in club fed for 4 years and eat daily/watch cable TV/workout/go to school.

B

There were clearly other witnesses to the incident other than the police. From the article:

"McHugh was a passenger in a car..."

Unless, of course, he was a passenger in a police car.

here's a great example of a repeat offender, from philly news last night.

a youngish woman injures herself somehow and a "good citizen" gives her a ride to the hospital. this late 50's man even waits around for her to be treated. then, on the way home he makes a diversion into a secluded area, puts his belt around her neck, and then rapes her. amazingly, someone saw what she thought was a suspicious car and called 911. two cops were close by and busted the guy.

OF COURSE, the guy had already done 18 years for killing two other people and raping another. he was let out early for good behavior.

what a place we live in...

Come on.. you know he "found" Jesus and was 100% reformed.

When somebody is let out here in Ca.. the locals make damn sure he/she isnt welcome and quickly run them out of town until they find a town that willl accept them.. sounds like Philly doesnt mind (lets send them all to Philly..!!! LOL)

vortrex... it sounds like you live in a crime ridden hell hole compared to your SF digs.

B << watched crime move into a small north Texas community and promptly watched the cops shut it all down in 1 weeks worth of raids on Korean gangs... hum.


B

philly is a rough town for sure. but, after growing up watching the detroit news for 25 years nothing surprises me anymore. I think SF definitely softened me up though. philly still does not compare to the nightly run down of crimes you hear in the detroit telecasts.

here's another good one from a week ago..

some guys were riding 4 wheelers (ATV's) thru center city philadelphia!! so, a cop gets out of his car and tries to stop them. they just run the cop over, LOL. he got two broken legs out of the deal. I've actually witnessed people on 4 wheelers cruising the center city. it's kinda like the wild west here. in SF everything seems so normal and structured.

I will return west, someday...

ok, here's a little story ...

when i was about 17, we used to hang out outside this mall after school in the summer and listen to music and drink beer, no drugs, no violence, no "gang" bullshit, no weapons. (yes, legal age for drinking is 16 in germany and yes, you can drink ANYWHERE) ...
there were a few cops patrolling the mall and we got to know them after a while.
one day, they showed up with a "rookie". they gave him the tour etc.
next day, he shows up alone. so we decided to make some fun of him. circled him with like 5 guys and started talking stuff like "hey, i wonder if that radio will survive if i pee on it" etc etc. the guy freaks out and runs into the nearby bank and calls for backup.
so while we're still sitting there laughing at the cop, the backup pulls in and we RUN ...
we jump the wall to a "girls-only" boarding school thinking we'll be safe there (hehe), but the cops saw us and jump the wall too. guns drawn, they arrest us and escort us back to their cars. made the "rookie" feel good.
then, we get to the police station and all the cops there are rolling on the floor, laughing their asses off. they let us all go and just ask us to give the guy a break.
no one was harmed and we all live to tell the story to our grandchildren.

if it was for you Mr. Vortrex, i would be very dead now, my daughter would never have been born and no grandchildren either ...

Andy

Andy! You ran from a cop!

You must be a vicious criminal, and therefore deserve shot in the back while fleeing the scene of your horrible crime!

I think things are a little different in small towns Andy.

I was arrested by a Rookie.. but I wasnt making fun of him (I was his first arrest) I ended up paying 8k in fines and serving 3 years probation. Piss test once a month.. you name it. The court docs read: "Attempting to disarm an office". I was handcuffed and he said I went for his gun (this is a felony BTW).. life sucked.

I was 18 and fighting in a bar... cop was outside...


B

oh come now andy, obviously your situation was different, as it was all a joke as you say.

guess what? I had a cop draw a gun on me before (stupid mistake on my part). I didn't move, didn't think of running, no harm done. I think it was a $50 ticket I got.

funny thing is, I was backed up to a lake, nowhere to go but swimming. I could have drowned and made my family rich. LOL.

You didnt have warrant/probation issues/or you would have ran also. Once a criminal always a criminal.

Where is Alfred ?? This would have a been great thread for him..LOL


B

The kids fault, plain and simple.

Everyone named in the lawsuit should counter sue the father and his lawyer for the frivolous lawsuit and defamation of charcter. If more lawyers were held accountable, there would be less stupid suits like this.

yes, it was a joke.
but the "rookie" was shitting in his pants. for him, it was probably as real as it gets on your first day alone.
for all i know, he could have told the backup guys that a bunch of punks with wild hair and leather-jackets we were trying to brake his bones, beat him up, stab him, whatever.
the point is, looking back at it now, it's scary to think about how easily this could have gotten WAY out of hand ...

Andy

talk about getting out of hand...

in my situation, I'm out in the woods with 2 other guy friends. we have 8-9 guns between us all, some seriously high power stuff. we are approached by a lone female DNR officer. this could have been a mess! you think she was not scared??

now,

do you guys wanna hear about the story when i spray-painted a cop-car? (and got busted)
or why my 21st birthday party made it on the cover of a nationwide german newspaper?
or the time i got pulled over for drunk driving by 2 cops that were even more wasted than i was?


Andy

Sure Andy, we have time...

It is going to be a long time before this case goes to court, if ever. However, if it does, here is my prediction. (about the kid, not Andy)

1. The officers will be cleared on the wrongful death charges.
2. The officers will be found guilty of negligence for failure to intervene.
3. The sheriff will be found guilty of negligence.
4. The Marion County Sheriff's Department, the Indianapolis police department and the Cumberland police departments will be found negligent for failure to properly train.
5. The town of Cumberland will be cleared of all charges.
6. The jury will award the parent $400, 000.

7. My taxes will go up.

8. the citizens there should do a reverse of the typical "innocent man killed, let's trash our city".

Ha ha.. a criminal died... lets clean up the city and hold a barbeque.

B

i'm afraid to ask what exactly you mean by "clean up the city" and "hold a barbeque" ...

maybe a parade downtown with clowns for the kids? balloons and streamers lining main street? lots of options!

CAN'T YOU TELL BY THE WAY THE CHAD DANGLES?




M

Yes Andy, we want to read about all three. It'd be much better if I could actually hear your german accent though!

Jen

Maybe you could "unblock" him long enough for him to post a few remarks.


Then re-instate the ban, of course.

You gotta ask yourself, if I was a cop what would I do?

Jump in dark water to save a guy that is running from me? He'll probably fight me. I'm not a certified lifeguard or USCG rescue swimmer. I have a family and I want to see them again.

Screw him-he is the bad guy here.

Paul

(My brother's a cop for 25 years. You won't believe the stories he tells me)

Thining of the heard.

Who voted for the "officers" - they didn't throw him in!!! And not going to rescue him- you've got to be kidding....

Whose to say the cops could even see this kid?

IF you're Stupid enough to be Drinking & Driving at 17,
then
run from the cops, AFTER they've tested you for your alcohol level,
then
you run into a lake to what.... hide?

Whose to say kid-brillant didn't think, "I've got to hide from these cops,
I'll go under the water so they won't see me".

Maybe he went underwater, and just never came back up.

Is he the first 17yr old kid who drank alcohol? Absolutely not.
First to run from the cops, while drunk? Umm, no.

Is his death a tragedy for his family, friends & his community? Yes.

Where does the fault lie with his death? My vote: the kid.

You can NOT make multiple mistakes, and then blame the police because
they weren't able to save your sorry ass.

Maybe not a great loss for the community....

Hey, it's the float test of humanity.




M

I think one of the pertinent facts in this case is it was 4 a.m. Jumping into a dark lake at that time to retrieve a drunk would endanger a normal patrol officer. They can't be trained for everything. Waiting for divers was a smart call.