Head leak!

My mechanic determined it was coming from the head and invited me over to take a look (Sorry no pics).

When he pulled the lower valve cover off the head nut was just laying sideways in the hole.

Either somebody screwed up when the heads were torqued or a stud has pulled out.

Updates to follow.

QUOTE (Headrage @ Dec 1 2005, 03:26 PM)

Head leak! My mechanic determined it was coming from the head and invited me over to take a look (Sorry no pics). When he pulled the lower valve cover off the head nut was just laying sideways in the hole. Either somebody screwed up when the heads were torqued or a stud has pulled out. Updates to follow.

That's a bummer......

What's the next step?


John

helicoil and buy a new stud???

b

QUOTE (Flat VW @ Dec 1 2005, 04:12 PM)

What's the next step? John

Mechanic's gonna look into the options.

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Dec 1 2005, 04:14 PM)

helicoil and buy a new stud??? b

Motor's gonna have to come apart for that.

QUOTE (Headrage @ Dec 1 2005, 05:27 PM)

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Dec 1 2005, 04:14 PM) helicoil and buy a new stud??? b Motor's gonna have to come apart for that.

Are you sure you aren't looking for an excuse to go to 3.6?



More power......arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh

QUOTE (SLITS @ Dec 1 2005, 04:35 PM)

Are you sure you aren't looking for an excuse to go to 3.6? More power......arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh

If that was the case I could of had 6 inches cut off of my d!6k and bought a 911 with all the money I've spent...

the problem now is getting the remainder of the stud out. Assuming that isn't a 7 act play, I would still recommend splitting the case because all the lowers should be replaced after installing your favorite thread repairs and it will be very easy to get the effer's pointing every which way which will confound your torque settings. good luck. btw, will you do it yourself?

Are you (and your mechanic) sure that the stud is pulled or broken. Maybe the nut can simply be re-torqued. Probably a long shot but worth a try.

thats a bummer for a new car allan....

Aren't pulled head studs a fact of life for the 2.7?

And snapped head studs for the 3.0...

At least that is what two years of 911 ownership taught me...

QUOTE

Maybe the nut can simply be re-torqued. Probably a long shot but worth a try.

It's certainly worth a try,but be careful with the re-torque....if the stud is pulling out, tis possible to tighten until the stud comes up into the barrel nut so far that the driver will no longer grip the nut and..... then you'll be sorry.

QUOTE

Aren't pulled head studs a fact of life for the 2.7? And snapped head studs for the 3.0... At least that is what two years of 911 ownership taught me...

Used motors crap shoot , eddie914 2-2.7's ,
3rd a 3.2 , 4k ,79k miles , fingers crossed

QUOTE

thats a bummer for a new car allan....

QUOTE (Porsche Rescue @ Dec 1 2005, 08:45 PM)

Are you (and your mechanic) sure that the stud is pulled or broken. Maybe the nut can simply be re-torqued. Probably a long shot but worth a try.

We are going to give this a shot.

If the stud is pulled the motor's coming apart.

Holy shit Allan. I am friggen speachless. When I adjusted the valves on that engine, there wasn't any loose head bolts that I could see. Plus, it pulled good compression.

I wish I was there to help.

That's a bummer Allan. Sorry to hear it.

Here's a thought.

Being that the conversion is already done, would a 3.0 or larger just bolt right in?

Anybody got one for cheap?

QUOTE (SLITS @ Dec 1 2005, 05:35 PM)

QUOTE (Headrage @ Dec 1 2005, 05:27 PM) QUOTE (bd1308 @ Dec 1 2005, 04:14 PM) helicoil and buy a new stud??? b Motor's gonna have to come apart for that. Are you sure you aren't looking for an excuse to go to 3.6? More power......arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh

I will install a 3.6 in your car for $19.5.....

QUOTE (914RS @ Dec 2 2005, 07:50 PM)

I will install a 3.6 in your car for $19.5.....

QUOTE (Headrage @ Dec 2 2005, 07:46 PM)

Here's a thought. Being that the conversion is already done, would a 3.0 or larger just bolt right in? Anybody got one for cheap?

Alan,

Call my friend/teacher Jay: 951 788 4216

And ask him if he's got a sweet motor for cash, or what your options are with that 2.7. I've seen some damn good motors built on that 2.7 alumi-mag case.

Call EASY or Partsheaven for a used good 3.2L for $3500-4500 and never look back.

QUOTE (Bleyseng @ Dec 3 2005, 11:02 AM)

Call EASY or Partsheaven for a used good 3.2L for $3500-4500 and never look back.

I've heard of Parts Heaven but who's EASY?

QUOTE (Headrage @ Dec 3 2005, 12:09 PM)

but who's EASY?

a hooker....

while its not nice to kiss and tell
oh ya porsche parts ,
I bought 2 911 non sunrrof clips,and misc parts, from them great guys
EASY
4060 Harlan Street - Emeryville, CA 94608
(510) 653-3279 - fax (510) 653-3178

Can 3.2's be had that cheap? I thought $6K was closer to the market rate.

QUOTE

Can 3.2's be had that cheap? I thought $6K was closer to the market rate.

Eddie914 found one up here Wa. 4000.
no injection, why you would sell the injection off a 79k motor ? I dont know
a good injection 750.-1000.

QUOTE

Call EASY or Partsheaven for a used good 3.2L for $3500-4500 and never look back.

3.2 way better motor. something to consider you may be doing a top end on a 3.2 unless you see it run, it will probably need valve guides rings, rod bearings/bolts, you know while your there.

Oklahoma Foreign wants $6300 complete from air cleaner to exhaust tip, with complete Motronic system, about $350 shipping to Oregon. They do compression and leak down tests before shipping and offer 90 day warranty. I was thinking that was not too bad. Guess EASY and Partsheaven should be explored.

'bout 4 mos ago up here was a 100k 3.2L document maint. for $5500 complete in Gig Harbor. Guy wrecked his babied 911.

I looked at that for a few days....but reality set in. Still have to finish this house and start the other house project.

QUOTE

QUOTE (Porsche Rescue @ Dec 1 2005, 08:45 PM) Are you (and your mechanic) sure that the stud is pulled or broken. Maybe the nut can simply be re-torqued. Probably a long shot but worth a try.   We are going to give this a shot. If the stud is pulled the motor's coming apart.

Did it work ?

QUOTE (sixnotfour @ Dec 4 2005, 06:01 PM)

Did it work ?

I'll find out tomorrow hopefully.

Preliminary results:

Just got back from my mechanics place and the heads took torque without a problem. He's buttoning it back up now so I should know if that will remedy the leak this afternoon.

QUOTE (Headrage @ Dec 5 2005, 11:33 AM)

Preliminary results: Just got back from my mechanics place and the heads took torque without a problem. He's buttoning it back up now so I should know if that will remedy the leak this afternoon.

Ohh, that sounds good, I hope it works out for you,


John

??WELL??

Okay, stopped by my mechanics place on the way home from work to check on things. Everything is buttoned back up so I asked him if it was running again and he said to go ahead and start it.

So far it's nice and quite. He hasn't taken it out to drive it yet but it sounds good idling and when you rev it. It was leaking oil pretty bad as well so he added some dye to the oil and will take it out tomorrow to see if the re-torque on the heads fixed the leak.

I'm just wondering if this is a symptom of a head stud pulling out. Pulls out enough to loosen the nut, re-torque, okay for awhile, loosens again, etc., etc. or do they usually just let go.

Allan, did the prev owner have any upgrades done to that case ? Dilivar or A-R-P studs, case savers ? 2.7 mag cases make great time trial motors, when they are kept lubed with piston squirters fed with nice cool oil from big front coolers.
My experience with those engines on the street is that they just don't like city driving and heat soak. Even after totally prepping my 2.7 single turbo engine , and never again pulling a stud, I could never get it to run dry at the case halves. The oil leaks did it in for me, sold it to a club racer-- and went on to the 3.0 sil/ alum case.
Hope for the best- but keep your eyes on a 3.0 or 3.2 for the future
Marty

Hey Allan....I have a 2.0 aluminum case that can be modified up to 2.7

I think i would have the guy retap anyway.....

the ol' hey look it tigtened thing doesnt work too well....and your screwed when the bolt falls out again, like in the case of my spark plug issue.

b

QUOTE (SLITS @ Dec 5 2005, 05:28 PM)

Hey Allan....I have a 2.0 aluminum case that can be modified up to 2.7

I was told by a 2.7 racer that the modified 2.0 case is the way to go. He said it would last forever.

BUT, will someone please tell me if the repeated torque, loosening, torque, yadayada, is how it works?

Pretty please???

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Dec 5 2005, 05:30 PM)

I think i would have the guy retap anyway.....

That's the problem Britt, he thinks that because it torqued so well it might already have time-certs installed. The motor was taken apart at one time we know. Has the oil fed tensioners plus you can see that the case was split.

Allan, I found these in my old archives (07/78) . The 2.7 case was built with case savers and new studs --I can't remember if the dilivar studs came on the scene yet. Note the flycut piston tops for CR drop (7.5:1 for turbo) . The drilled/ copper faced 901 flywheel was an OE Porsche item (racing ).The copper tube just under the engine tin is for turbo return-oil. It was a quick revver and made good power @ 10 psi--but leaked oil @ 5,000 miles.
Marty

marty you nut!! lol

and the copper flywheel - is that the rare 911 S piece? the one usually coupled to the Alumium pressure plate?

cool pics, thanks for sharing.

oh ron - is it a sandcast case? arent those big bucks?

...Nuther, couldn't resist...the 2.7 going into the '74. I kept the engine N/A for 1,000 miles to seat the rings. Single rajay turbo went in after break-in. It was a handful with the narrow tires and small brakes
Hope it works out for you !
Marty

Marty, I'm thinking I should have listened to you in the first place. What makes me leery is the dogs butt

Seems to me it is either going to stay tight or not. Worrying about it won't change anything. Drive it until it breaks. Then decide what to do.

Allan, Doggy was named Napoleon, owned by the strange dude that I rented the workshop from . We had a nickname for him also-but he's proll'y lurking all of the Pcar boards, so one must BE careful !

QUOTE (Porsche Rescue @ Dec 5 2005, 06:06 PM)

Seems to me it is either going to stay tight or not. Worrying about it won't change anything. Drive it until it breaks. Then decide what to do.

I would accept "it will take torqueing" over "it ain't ever gonna take torque", any day.

John

QUOTE (Flat VW @ Dec 5 2005, 06:11 PM)

QUOTE (Porsche Rescue @ Dec 5 2005, 06:06 PM) Seems to me it is either going to stay tight or not. Worrying about it won't change anything. Drive it until it breaks. Then decide what to do. I would accept "it will take torqueing" over "it ain't ever gonna take torque", any day. John

Me too...

I hope like hell this works.

I still haven't heard how the studs pull.

Just how to fix them and how to be prepared when they do.

[/QUOTE]
Me too...

I hope like hell this works.

I still haven't heard how the studs pull.

Just how to fix them and how to be prepared when they do.[/QUOTE]


Where is SHLITZZ when you need him?

Also, is the "pulling stud" thing mainly a "six" phenomena? (looked up the spelling in the dictonary{sp}!)

John

P.S. I seem to read it more with the sixes, I think.....

Studs pull because steel studs expand at a lesser rate than Aluminum. Mostly this happens in hot climates with the thermal reactors in place or otherwise when an engine is allowed to overheat. The stud is a bunch stronger than the threads in the magnesium.

The best cure is Case Savers...not time certs + Divilar studs + a real good external oil cooler + all the cooling mods you have ever heard of. In 4 years of running, my engine has never seen over 100C (212F)...per the gauge.....all of the above were done.....In fact, I have trouble getting it warm enuff at AX.

One of the problems I have is that the temp gauge doesn't work...

I understand how thermal dynamics affect different base metal/alloys but I am looking for some real world experiences....

If the mag case will gradually grow weaker and weaker and allow the stud to drift even though it "seems" it's being re-torqued over and over, I need to know....

Thanks..