So, I had thought that spot through the firewall was isolated. I was wrong.





I took out the battery tray, as it was looking ratty. After I had it out, I started probling with a screw driver and a hammer to see what was surface rust, and what was problem rust.

It seems like the inner fender has issues in the hell hole, as does the engine surround. But the long is solid. I was really whaleing at it with the hammer and screwdriver, and nothing went through. Also, above the hell area, there is surface rust, but I could not probe through that either.

How do I fix this? Do I need to take off the outer quarter panel? If so, exactly how do I go about doing that?

At this point, should I fix it and weld in a new battery tray there, or move the battery to a box in the back?

This is not the first time that the battery box had been replaced. It looked like the top to the tray had been rusted out, cut out, and a new top welded in a long time ago. The person who welded it in, also managed to burn through the inner pass-side quarter panel on one of his tack welds, so that area was weak too. maybe a waek spot the size of a quarter.

And, I went out into the garage tonight with the intentions of pulling out my crumbly old fuel lines....

Zach

QUOTE

How do I fix this?

There are several great threads on hellhole / rust repair. A couple of my favorites are:

michelko's thread

cdmcse's thread

I went through a major engine-in rust repair project this summer. Gotta get busy and start a thread of my own...

Looks pretty easy..
Cut out the rusty metal and fab in new. Install a engine shelf and maybe a lower inner wheelhouse. The rest is make it to fit.

I think that you are right. Today I am going to cut out the rusty bits, and see where I need to go from there.


Zach

OKay, today I tried to cut out the rust.




The red was the outline of what I wanted to cut away. Obviously, I ran into touble, as I am here.

I was using an angle grinder with a cut off wheel. I was not able to get very far into the hell hole with it though. Its too big, and I can't get the cut wheel in to make the cuts.

I _DON'T_ want to cut out the long. It is solid. I want to take the metal out from around it.

Right now my only options are angle grinder, or a dremel and cutting wheel (which I don't see really working either). I don't have a sawzall.

How do you folks get in there to make the cut? What is the right tool for the job? I don't want to buy tools I don't need.


Zach

First, drill out the spot welds on the engine shelf and remove it. Then you can get to the long better. The other areas use a 4" grinder without the stupid guard and a thin cutting wheel. Cut what you can with that, then use the Dremel to finish the tight spots over cutting in the corners to finish the cuts. Try to take out the sections in larger pieces to make patterns off instead of little crappy rusty pieces. Cut to good metal instead of making a bunch of trys into junkie rusty metal that needs to come out.

I was thinking about this last night, while putting winter wheels on my finace's mazda. Would a cutting torch or a plasma cutter work well for this? Or would I be creating too much heat and just warping the metal.

Perhaps I should just buy a sawzall, and make some sorter metal blades?

I've never drilled out spot welds. Anything in particular involved there?

Admittedly, it has been too damn cold to go out in the garage today. Just the idea gives me shivers...

Zach

Plasma would be great, but beware, there may be quite a bit more damage underneath than you anticipate.

dont cut too much down below as this is a structural area. The rusted area is made of several layers of steel, only remove that which is rusted. I have repaired much worse looking hell holes than yours, so do not dispair. The battery tray, support, and engine shelf can be purchased from Restoration Design, the other parts need to be hand fabricated, but are not that difficult.

good luck

The fabrication I am not too concerned about. Its more the cutting involved. My angle grinder is pretty bulky (but powerful), and even a 4 1/2 inch disk won't let me get tight against the corners.

I am thinking a torch or plasma for evertthing not on the long, and then grinding the rot off the long with the angle grinder /Dremel.

Zach

I save up my worn disks to get into smaller areas, works well. I've got them ranging from around 1-2" that will get into almost anywhere. You can also pick up a 90 degree angle grinder at harbor freight for around $30 that is a life saver. They are great for cleaning up gasket surfaces too, with a scotchbrite pad of course.

I'd actually prefer to cut it out with a disk as opposed to plasma. Takes much more time, but you have more control.

Here's a kit that a club member sells;

Engman Hell Hole Kit

Yippie a kit! thats the way to go and don't use a torch as you'll really make a mess of everything. A sawsall works good along with a 4" grinder with thin wheels.

Take your time to cut out the rust carefully cuz its harder to fix if ya butcher it.

I have found a pnuematic recipicating saw works great , cuts like a hot knive thru butter. This is a small tool, great for tight places. It is kind of like a sawzall, but much smaller, Hold in one hand, the balade is only about 2-3 inches long, the whole unit with blade is less than a foot long. It helps to have a swivel ait hose connection on the end (an added accesory) to get into the tightest places. it cuts fast, cuts very clean, no sparks and adbrasive grit flying around either. You will also find it very usefull for cutting the new piece you need to fab. Mine was an off brand (Tiawan special) I think sold as Allied brand. Other folks make them also. It is a good complement to your cut off wheel.

Avoid the plasma cutter, it is not as useful for doing thin sheet metal, and leaves a sloppy cut. the little recipicating saw will have many other uses around the house also.

it is a "must have" in my autobody repair tool box.


Good luck

That doesn't look too bad. I did the same repair to my car earlier this year. My tool of choice was a air powered angle grinder w/ a 3" cut off wheel. Easy to get into tight places.

I bought a used Lincoln 110V welder. Take you time it is well worth the effort.

Here is a couple of threads that might help.

My repair

My repair 2

Hey, I got it out!

Pic from the cabin, firewall, passenger side:


And the hell hole:


I ended up not using much of my angle grinder at all.
I did use my dremel and some heavy duty cut off wheels (about 15 of them).

I was able to cut large chunks out that I can use as templates for putting bits back in, too. Well, they will be a starting point at least.

Thanks guys!

Zach

if i'm not mistaken, i can look inside your long on the right. if that is the case, spray the hell out of it with metal ready. looks like the top of the long was rusted through, so the inside is most likely rusted as well ...

Andy

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Dec 16 2005, 05:28 PM)

if i'm not mistaken, i can look inside your long on the right. if that is the case, spray the hell out of it with metal ready. looks like the top of the long was rusted through, so the inside is most likely rusted as well ...  Andy

It had not gotten through yet. The section that I cut out was getting rotty, but had not yet rotted through. In the pictue at the top of the page, all of the holes are ones I made with a screwdriver, probing for the beginning and end of the rusty area.

But yeah, it has been soaked with metal ready all ready. I looked inside as much as I could with a flashlight, and I did not see any rot on the inside of the long. Hopefully, I got it before it had a chance to set in down there. I should get a mirror and look again though.

Zach

QUOTE (Vacca Rabite @ Dec 16 2005, 03:52 PM)

But yeah, it has been soaked with metal ready all ready. I looked inside as much as I could with a flashlight, and I did not see any rot on the inside of the long. Hopefully, I got it before it had a chance to set in down there. I should get a mirror and look again though.

ok, cool!

just checking ...
Andy