So I got the red neck racer wieghed today. Good news.... 1905 pounds I was so happy to have just made LAST years limit.

So all of you know they screwed my by making Street Modified 2 seat (SM-2) mid engine cars minimum wieght is now 2100 pounds.

Help me with a recipe to gain pounds but make me faster.

I have fiberglass front bumper. Stock passenger seat, 16lb Sparco drivers seat. no tar on the floor, no engine sound deadening, no back pad just some carpet. PC680 Odessy battery, soon to have Tangerine Header. My wheels tip in at 19 lbs each with 20 lb Hoosiers.

I think a cage is in order as it will put on the pounds and stiffen up the chasis. Whats a autopower cage weigh? Sounds Like I will be needing more power to and maybe better brakes. Stock ones were great in a light car.

I know somebody sell me a big six that'll do it.

mount a 100 lb weight under the passenger seat. Low center of gravity, balance out the side to side, cheap. Moveable to where you need to balance to!!

The shipping weight of an Autopower cage is 110 lbs.

Build a nice and beefy cage. You can afford the weight penalty. Unless the rules specify, make sure to pick up your suspension points. Next step is to build a ballast box. If you still come in way under weight you can fill the longs with lead shot and expanding foam. Those tips should be good up to 2500 lbs.

Drop in a V8!

(yes, I know that would significantly change what class you were in)

I like the big weight down low. It's the best place to put weight, and you can tailor it to meet the minimum exactly. Get it really close, and tape pennies to it throughout the season to compensate for tire wear

Fill your tiars with water.


M

install a cage........the increase in chassis` stiffness and suspension responsiveness (is that word?? ) will amaze you and make you wonder what took you so long to do a full cage

a cage weighs approximately 1 pound per foot length for standard regulation diameter (can't think of it off the top of my head) mild steel. Thats a very close approximately- next to a 15th of a pound off. Plus a few extra grams at each weld.

So you've got one hundred and ninety five feet of rollcage to work with.

Stiffening the sides and across the firewall first. Keep low center of gravity. Put some extra weight on the passenger side. That'll help a little. And then go to weld on stiffening kits and such.

"Positive weight theory" extra weight to make you faster- has to be exponentially better than the acceleration and cornering ability you're losing with the added weight.

Put in an Engman stiffening kit AND a cage. Add big-ass 911 vented rotors. Add in sound deadening and give your ears a rest. 200lbs is a lot of weight to add back, so don't throw it all at lead bars.

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Jan 13 2006, 06:50 PM)

a cage weighs approximately 1 pound per foot length for standard regulation diameter (can't think of it off the top of my head) mild steel. Thats a very close approximately- next to a 15th of a pound off. Plus a few extra grams at each weld. So you've got one hundred and ninety five feet of rollcage to work with. Stiffening the sides and across the firewall first. Keep low center of gravity. Put some extra weight on the passenger side. That'll help a little. And then go to weld on stiffening kits and such. "Positive weight theory" extra weight to make you faster- has to be exponentially better than the acceleration and cornering ability you're losing with the added weight.

1.50 x .095 wall DOM is 1.426 pounds per ft. and is the norm size for lighter weight cars........

Theoretically there could be a point where extra weight down low would help you.. Imagine a weightless car with a 2000 lb targa top.. it would be very unstable. Even though you'd be doubling the weight, I bet your autocross times would go down if you installed a 2000 lb carpet set.

Late model doors and '75-'76 bumpers.

Actually, I wouldn't add weight.....I'd take more out & head to a different class.

QUOTE (J P Stein @ Jan 13 2006, 07:24 PM)

Actually, I wouldn't add weight.....I'd take more out & head to a different class.

Sounds like the slippery slope that I'm on.

Have my ex wife co-pilot.
She'd bring you up to weight and you'd set record times just to get the race over and get her the hell outta there!!

If you're not going to add the weight with a big 6cyl, I'd do the engman inner long kit, the brad mayeur heavy duty outer long kit, and as much cage as SM2 would allow so far as attachment points.

What they said......

Also you can add sheet lead (comes in rolls) to the floor to make up any difference.

I wouldn't add a single pound to the brakes...
and the absolute last thing you would want is vented rotors.

your talking about unsprung weight and worse rotational mass...
you certainly don't want this extra weight to eat up your horsepower....


so the cage is good and anything to improve the suspension.
then I'd add weight after that that balanced the car.

get/rent a set of corner balance scales and play with your weights while the car is on scales.

on my old car that ran PCA club racing class I, I had a 45lb piece of 1/2 inch plate steel that was perfectly cut out to fill the entire passenger footwell. It was bolted down per rules and painted black. No one could tell I even had a weight added, yet it helped me make my class minimum.

brant

QUOTE (Foster @ Jan 13 2006, 08:21 PM)

Have my ex wife co-pilot. She'd bring you up to weight and you'd set record times just to get the race over and get her the hell outta there!!

Iv'e been holding auditions for a trunk monkey. or Racer chic that knows how to change tires. Must be hot looking and will wear thong in grid. (so as to distract the other drivers). But any girl close to 195 don't look good in a thong. hey maybe to of them little NOPI hotties they can't go over 95 pounds a piece.

JP I was looking at Prepared . Geesh means I got to go get 7" rims max for F prepared. So much for my diamond steelies. What class do you run in for SCCA?
Autocross is supposed to be relatively inexpensive. Ha !!! I thing changing rules is fixing that.
Maybe I should just take the step to DE's and stuff I'm pretty much set up for it. and it will take all my money too.

I keep thinking a 125 shifter Kart would be cool. and leave the teener on the street as a look a like racer.

Must be hot looking and will wear thong in grid. (so as to distract the other drivers).


Hmmm... I may not be as hot as you'd like, but I can guarantee distraction... in a thong...


M

Geez Miles the thought has me so messed up I posted on the wrong thread. Some things just shouldn't be.

You in the thong would make me look straight down the course and say "I'm not gonna look, I'm not gonna look, I'm not gonna look over and over. I'd concentrate on the course more than ever.

Dave

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jan 14 2006, 05:11 AM)

[QUOTE=Foster,Jan 13 2006, 08:21 PM] JP I was looking at Prepared . Geesh means I got to go get 7" rims max for F prepared. So much for my diamond steelies. What class do you run in for SCCA? Autocross is supposed to be relatively inexpensive. Ha !!! I thing changing rules is fixing that. Maybe I should just take the step to DE's and stuff I'm pretty much set up for it. and it will take all my money too. I keep thinking a 125 shifter Kart would be cool. and leave the teener on the street as a look a like racer.

I run in F Prepared. I don't understand the "7 inch rims max" bit. Max for FP is 10 X 16. 7 or 8 X 15 is good for Cantilever slicks.

I can't figure the SCCA logic on 2100 lbs for SM2.....unless they want to turn it into *another* Vette class. Dumb ruling, me thinks.

The nice thing about Prepared or Mod is that you can do a lot of things with a car......D Mod & FP both have a minimum weight of 1500 lbs (with a 2.0L in FP). All this costs money, of course Karts have never been a viable autocross option for me.

Just taking this back to the top because I am still pissed.
Maybe I can't read them prepared rules to good I am so confused. Maybe things will settle out and if enough people bitch the wieght rule might get changed back for SM-2.

Actually sat at home today while the club ran 25 car event. 10 runs a piece plus fun runs later.
Got lots done on the house so it's not a total waste.

I think the jump to 2100 was to keep the ELISE from jumping to the class.

The SCCA has never really had a warm spot for Porsches in general. Hmmmm... what mfg makes the most rear and mid engined cars.... and how is a "rear" mid engined car that much different from a "front" mid engined car, like a 3rd gen rx-7? Your thoughts on this being an "Elise spoiler" rule are interesting- that thought hadn't crossed my mind.

All you need is $$$- build a GT flaired, huge rimmed 914 with a 993 turbo motor, G50 trans, you'll eat up most if not all of that 2100lbs, and have a monster SM2 car. And a second mortgage, 3rd job, unhappy wife, and lots of new friends looking to mooch a ride.

They already took care of keeping the Elsie out: 16.C.2.c SM2 "Excluded vehicles: Lotus (all)"

The 2100 pound limit is what keeps those 5.0 liter pushrod or 4.0 liter OHC mid-engine cars in check.

A Z06 could be legally stripped to less to weight less than allowable for a 914. I do not think SCCA has any concerns over if a 914 is competitive or not.

Rules are here: SCCA SOLO II Rulebook

I'm still hoping that they realize they screwed up and make the change back to 1900 lbs.
Hey I can hope can't I????
I guess that is why you see more old buggers like the 914 in Prepared and Modified or the junk yard. Not ready to do that to a still pretty nice early car.
For some reason I can't find the original wieght of an early car. Seems to me I read someplace that the 4 cylinder cars left the factory @ like 2094 or sumpin.

1950#

QUOTE (Bleyseng @ Jan 16 2006, 09:55 AM)

1950#

????? Really????? So how screwed up is that?

I think official weights vary depending upon whom is looking it up.

but I know PCA recognizes that all 914/4's were factory weight of 2139

I'm sure that some early cars were less and some late cars more. But they took this number directly from the factory tech book.

I would think SCCA would use a factory published number like this also. I'm very surprised if they claim 1950, but I also am no scca expert

brant

So.will they let you offset the penalty with some added power??

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Jan 16 2006, 11:23 AM)

So.will they let you offset the penalty with some added power??

Actually they specifically said I should go see you for more power.
Sumpin about test mule for a turbo system.

What's the buzzing? oh that's my alarm clock I was dreaming again.

Cage, chassis and suspension arm stiffners.

QUOTE

I wouldn't add a single pound to the brakes... and the absolute last thing you would want is vented rotors. your talking about unsprung weight and worse rotational mass... you certainly don't want this extra weight to eat up your horsepower....

the billet 4-lug hubs with 911 vented rotor weighs less than the factory /4 one-piece solid rotor and hub

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 16 2006, 03:24 PM)

QUOTE I wouldn't add a single pound to the brakes... and the absolute last thing you would want is vented rotors. your talking about unsprung weight and worse rotational mass... you certainly don't want this extra weight to eat up your horsepower.... the billet 4-lug hubs with 911 vented rotor weighs less than the factory /4 one-piece solid rotor and hub

I'll give you that one.
that is great!

brant

I will be jonesing for some Mueller brakes once the power goes in.

Crap there's that buzzing again..

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jan 16 2006, 02:24 PM)

QUOTE I wouldn't add a single pound to the brakes... and the absolute last thing you would want is vented rotors. your talking about unsprung weight and worse rotational mass... you certainly don't want this extra weight to eat up your horsepower.... the billet 4-lug hubs with 911 vented rotor weighs less than the factory /4 one-piece solid rotor and hub

Myth Buster!!!!


Let them fools believe....

Joe, if you want to be a test bitch for the Turbo, make a cam change, drop the CR and let's talk boost.

Jake you have mail.