I was trial fitting the 3.0 tonight....guesse what....the fricken air intake and fuel distributor won't fit in the engine compartement....without some serious cutting..even then the engine lid doesn't sit in the right place...even with the lid hatch cut out!!
should i waste my time and butcher my car further to get the EFFEN injection in????
or just get carbs......
i am a little pissed off
maybe this rum and coke will help.......yummmm
i am leaning towards carbs
what size should i get
or does some one have a magic wand to fix this problem

do a search for CIS mods....

engine latch etc...

people even put the aftermarket bulkhead mounts in a half inch lower to help.......

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 6 2006, 10:41 PM)

There was an article in excellence magazine this month.... Some guy shoved a 3.8 into a 914. Had to have an extra lid made to fit it all under there. Kinda a worthless project. Nobody'll ever let it race short of SP, and the 3.8 he got in there only gets like 320hp out. Terrible numbers for such a huge engine. Needs biturbo or something.....

Some people build cars for reasons other than racing.

I've heard of the CIS problems before. I'm sure, as Aaron mentioned, there is plenty of in if you search.

QUOTE (pete-stevers @ Feb 6 2006, 10:34 PM)

i am a little pissed off

on the 3.2 people flip the intake 180 deg. to make it fit without cutting ...
Andy

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 6 2006, 10:58 PM)

Nobody puts in a huge engine like that and then asks for what? Fuel efficiency?

i do. but i'm nobody ...

Andy

QUOTE (alpha434 @ Feb 6 2006, 10:58 PM)

Nobody puts in a huge engine like that and then asks for what? Fuel efficiency?

You're kidding right? There's a Viper in the shop right now getting some paint work. You're telling me that car is driven to it's potential? Or is cheap? Cars are all about having POWER. Using that power is optional and rarely exercised. Ever been to a hot rod show?

Cough*

Im quite happy as well. And Felix has a list of people quite happy as well (seems over 100 right now, club members).

Alfa I think you should royally

cus we like our big engines.

5.7 w/ FI
goal of 25mpg

Andrew


Sorry.. got a little carried away.. to much studying

QUOTE

Ok fine. Yes, lots of people want gobs of power available to them in there daily drivers. AND, unfortunately, I think that SirAndy's project is pretty cool

Ive lost all hope in you. Im sorry.

All your other pathetic excuses of posts, with numerous falable information and fake facts done come close to that post.

you
dont
like
fast
cars

good bye. You have no chance of recovering from that... I spent 3 years learning 914's, and know a tiny fraction of the things that the guru's know on this board. You come in, and in 2 months you think you know everything, you post random useless untrue facts which luckly I dont think anyone bought, and now you claim that fast cars and big engines are bad.

Your either a tree hugger, your gay, your crazy, or your an idiot.

now... Please tell me im wrong. I hate making posts like this.

Pete, sorry to hijack, I would try what andy said, and if that doesnt work, carbs are very pretty, and you could always MPFI the carbs and get a very unique, cool sounding, and interesting FI setup (might cost some.. but its doable)

I dont know 6's so I cant tell you much.. but I do know that you can do it.. it just takes a little brainpower and patience..

Maybe a little . The first cut is the hardest.

any body have an productive answers...turning the injection may work on the 3.2...not sure about the 3.0
Or crabs....
....i mean carbs....
Andy i will take pictures for you tommorow...
So lets stick with the issues
CARBS or MAGIC solution for the 3.0 with injection...keeping body panels intack....we can' lower the motor mount as it is welded in...now...and any lower and the cvs wear prematurely
thanks
P.S.....i don't really give two hoots about what you read in some magazine,.....

Pete - all it takes is just a little notch and it will work.
The targa top will not fit in the trunk
but I think that is a fair trade-off for the reliability of keeping the CIS.

hmmmmmm ...that might work in a sundrenched place...like Vegas...where i would realy like to live but i am stuckin rainy BC...we just had 29 days of straight rain....hmmmmm now i am looking at a green card as well......So John...there is no alternative to cutting the trunk to keep the injection?
thanks
steve
how much are a good set of carbs....

M

maybe there should be an omega to the alpha......

QUOTE (pete-stevers @ Feb 7 2006, 12:50 AM)

maybe there should be an omega to the alpha......

Yeah. Good call. Because I was actually trying to help you and all. Great. But if you would stop and actually look at what I'm saying and not automatically dismiss it. Nevermind.

Excuse me for stepping out of line..

BUT:

HE NEEDS TO INSTALL HIS FUCKING MOTOR IN HIS FUCKING CAR WITH FUCKING CIS AND IT'S BEEN DONE A HUNDRED FUCKING TIMES SO SHUT THE FUCK UP!

(unless you are an expert..)

Ok then. I don't know you, but you are hard to know... I can tell.

If that's how you help, have another quaalude, and go help Al Qaeda.


M

QUOTE (pete-stevers @ Feb 7 2006, 01:42 AM)

So John...there is no alternative to cutting the trunk to keep the injection?

I was not the one who did the conversion. I have been told that it can be done, but I have yet to see it with my own eyes.

It is so f'ing close. Maybe if you cut down the ribs and made the notch in the trunk only half as big as mine, you could still fit the top in there. Another option I have thought about is doing a trim job on the targa top to make it squeeze in the trunk. Even if that works, I would have the problem of what to do with the spare tire. There is an oil cooler up front, so I have no room up there for a wide full size spare. And 'NO', I dont want a collapsible one like Aaron and Eric are using.

dug this up
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=...f=2&t=40159&hl=

Steve

Dump the CIS and install PEFI. Then you can tune it the way you want and get rid of some of the hardware.

Dave

Sorry, Mines not a 6, but I added a small dog house to me bulkhead and my top still fits nicely.

I hunted for a good photo of the completed dog house, but didn't find one. I'll shoot one and change to photo later.

But from the looks of the photos in the other links, you don't need to cut yours.

QUOTE (redshift @ Feb 7 2006, 05:17 AM)

If that's how you help, have another quaalude, and go help Al Qaeda.

Sorry to hijack, but that was funny.

Hopefully, he gets the message.

I ran into the same problem when I put a 2.7 liter six into my 75. The engine latch is now relocated, there are spacers added to the motor mounts that lower the motor and tranny by 1.4 inches and the engine surround sheet metal was redone to cover the gap. Its a lot of work but well worth it. You will also have to sure your shifter shaft clears the front motor mount, modify the routing of the cable for your heater flapper valves if you are still using them and modify the routing of the rubber and metal hoses & tubes that go to the decal valve and the aux. warmup regulator. If not, they will rub on the rear of the engine bay. I had to relocate the aux valve. It works just fine now but access to the back side of the FI is impossible. I'm thinking about adding an access door/panel to the front edge of the rear trunk to give me better access for maint. Haven't done that yet but I have the sheet metal for it. Go for it! Another person that put a 2.7 into his car used an Audi air distributor box instead of the Porsche box. He had plenty of clearance.
Lyle

You can do it, Iv'e done it before.

You do turn the fuel dist 180 around, DON'T take it appart, just off, turn it 180 and put it back on. Doesn't matter what injector line goes to what position, becuase it's CIS.

Yeah, you'll probably have to space and lower the engine about 1/2" or so.

Yeah, you'll also have to move the rear engine lid latch to the "other side". Everything you need is pretty much there for it from the factory. Bot someone will have to drill out the spot welds, mirror it's placement on the right side of the car and weld it back on. It's works, I have had 2 914's with CIS with working closing engine lids and NO cutting holes anywhere for the Injection.

Take your time, step back and look at whats in the way. You'll get it.

Pete, before all of the forced induction was added to the black car, it ran around as a n/a 3.0 CIS. My mods were: NO rain tray, rotated the CIS head (root werkes !), moved the deck latch to the R side, disc- sanded the ribs off of the large CIS boot= perfect fit. NO trunk invasion.
The key to a good CIS fit is the type of engine mount/ or bar that you are using. I designed the Qwik-6 bar/ mount in 1978 and ran it slightly lower for the CIS clearence issue. Today there are many variations and brands of 6 mount bars--some higher--and some (?) might be good clones of our orig. style , which kept this deck- lid issue in mind
Marty

Thanks Martin, that was just what I was trying to say.

Steve - It's been done, you can do it!

I know nothing about fitting CIS in there, but I would seriously think about going with a different injection system before you go to carbs.

I'm a big megasquirt fan but there are numerous other options and I think most of them would do away with some of the extra gunk.

Just my 2c.

Sorry to and but if you start considering programmable injection systems I have a new Autronic SMC with AutoTune for sale.

Carbs are cool but then...

You'll need new cams to get the proper power out of the car.
Oooooooops, now you'll need new pistons.
Ah, might as well make it a 3.2 while you're in there.
Open up the ports a bit.
$$Ca-Ching$$ You're broke
Your wife has just left you.

Make the CIS work and it will be a nice reliable ride. Lowering the CG never hurts either

E.

What about the flywheel, clutch and tranny for a 3.0?
Was it only the first year of the 3.0 that had a crank that fitted the 914/6 flywheel? Then what?
How well does the 914 tranny work with a 3.0?

I'm working on installing a CIS motor too...haven't got to the "make it fit" stage but I've been reading and learning. Here's some pics I've collected:

w/Audi airbox

another one

I ran into this problem with my 2.7 CIS also. It was funny because someone actually did some elaborate plunbing to use the CIS fuel distributor in the stock location just to find out that three screws could be removed, the distributor turned about 90 degrees and reinstalled with no problem. I did have to grind my latch mechanism off and I do not intend to put another one on. I will likely use pins. Here is a pic of my engine. You will also have to trim the ribs on the air intake boot. HTH

one more

And another.

Sorry Pete, but there's no way of fitting a CIS engine without some mods. I've seen a couple of one off custom air boxes, as well as a nicely fabricated boxed section in that bulkhead. I've also seen just a couple that had just cut the bulkhead out where needed and put rubber edging over the open holes.

QUOTE (davep @ Feb 7 2006, 08:45 AM)

Was it only the first year of the 3.0 that had a crank that fitted the 914/6 flywheel? Then what? How well does the 914 tranny work with a 3.0?

NO. All 3.0 stock flywheels are flat and aren't a straight swap out. There's a couple ways to go, you can get a kit with a custom ring gear that goes for around $750, or you can get a custom flywheel.

From my own experience the SC engine works pretty well with stock 914-4 gearing, although there's some room for improvement. With the torque of the 3.0 you don't have to use 1st gear from a dead stop, but it's good for creeping along at slow speeds. I could get 57 mph out of 2nd before it would hit the rev limiter. 3rd topped out at about 75 mph at redline. It would cruise all day at 2800 rpm in 5th gear at 70 mph.

My Failing memory vaguely recalls a post on Pelican Years back where someone raided the junkyard and pieced together components off some Mercedes engines of the same CIS generation where no cutting was needed. Mixing and matching the Porsche and Mercedes part for "factory look" was very impressive. THere may have been a VW Rabbit CIS component or two in there also.

It's worth a search...

sorry if it's uncool to reference Pelican...

I've been a member for awhile, but only active recently

Wow Miles.....you rally crack me up!!
Just an idea i came up with in the middle of the night.....
can i cut the intake manifold down one inch and reweld it...that will give me more top end right ...but i got lots already...so has any one cut down a minifold ...will this drop the height of the intake and fuel distributor?

i don't really want to split for carbs ....until i know for sure
thanks guys
Steve

get the audi airboot has mentioned above, and relocate the release latch.


not that hard

the answers are there.

QUOTE (9146986 @ Feb 7 2006, 12:21 PM)

NO. All 3.0 stock flywheels are flat

Not quite the whole answer, though. The Euro only '77 Carrera 3 had a 3.0 based on the '76/'77 turbo case. It it used the old style flywheel pattern but had the aluminum case and was a 3.0L. Good luck finding one, though.

QUOTE

so has any one cut down a minifold

I would think it's a 'manifold' until you cut it... Once it's cut, then you can call it a 'minifold'

No, a chopped manifold becomes a womanifold.


M

or... a tranny

LMAO.... obvious.. yet elusive..

Common, AND ubiquitous... I get stabbed, but I never get the point..


M

My old 914 with a 2.4 CIS engine fit without cutting the trunk. The raintray-less engine lid rested on the CIS snorkel, there was no latch, and required hood pins to keep it down, but the trunk was untouched. There was enough room to fit my hand between the trunk and the injection. The CIS was 100% stock, not relocated or moved or clocked or anything. I'm sure the 3.0 CIS is a bit different, and perhaps taller. I have seen 2.7 and 3.0 engines w/ CIS fit into 914s w/o any major work. The owners didn't indicate anything special had to be done to make it fit, other than getting rid of the hood latch.

I'm sure most of the issue depends on which engine mount is used. You have quite a bit of latitude in how far up and down the engine can be mounted, and you can hang it pretty low w/o running into serious ground clearance problems, so drop it as far as practical and see how much clearence you have then.

here she is in all her glory....remeber trial fit...

Any ideas on what modle the "audi distributor box" came from that will replace the 3.0?

QUOTE

Any ideas on what modle the "audi distributor box" came from that will replace the 3.0?

I found that picture and some discussion on the airbox in a thread about 6 months ago here. I wish I'd saved a link to the thread....you'll have to search it out unless sombody reading this remembers.

Hey the picture Goose posted of the Audi boxed 914/6 (orange car) is mine, unfortunately I don't have the details on it. The previous owner of the engine was Ferg (a posting member here) but he didn't have much info on it's origins either 'cause it was done by a PO who didn't pass that info on. Clay [perrine] felt sure it was Audi when he saw it though. I think some of my set-up is actually from Honda Racing Corp because the piece that fits over the throttle body is stamped HRC, but I'm not sure.

Doug C

ha...found it........CIS install thread