There is something that is being left out here... gas mileage. In the suby turbo motor, cruising in 5th on the freeway (under the turbo) with a 300hp STI 2.5 yields you around 25mpg in even the heavy STI (and that was in my buddys tuned STI making 415hp). Imagine what you would get with a teener.

Power... The setup that I am going to have built (when $ ever gets here) will rev upto 8k, make 450hp on pump gas, and even more torque. Not to mention that peak torque is made around 3000 rpm and continues like a New Mexico butte until about 7000. All this for about the same price as a 993 varioram. All the internals are balanced and forged for strength for years.

Tranny... WRX 5speed with a gearset from PPG. Total for the tranny will be around $5k but it will handle upwards of 600ft/lbs of torque and will shift "dog" style which is way the crap faster than any of us could shift. It would be even cheaper with synchros.

All in all if you are looking for power, a flat torque curve, the great sound of a high power "boxter" style engine, smooth shifting, low weight, great gas mileage, and all around kick-assness, you can't turn your head away from Subaru power.

If you want the sexy "porsche" sound then and you want to preserve the porsche nostalgia, by all means, go with a -6.

Thats just my $.02

QUOTE (cbenitah @ Feb 13 2006, 04:06 PM)

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 13 2006, 11:24 AM) If someone walked in my door and asked for a subie swap, I would probably quote them $5k - $6k in labor.  That would include: 1. Custom engine mount bar. 2. Custom radiator setup. 3. Additional gauges. 4. Conversion wiring harness. 5. Any necessary body modifications. 6. All the little fit/finish items. tune in the engine etc... ok, where is this shop of yours? I'm trying to find different options to take my car when I'm ready for the conversion, but it seams like everyone is doing it at home.. I dont really care if a private person does it.. anyone want to make some xtra $$? The ideal would be if I could be there doing the conversion myself with someone that is a hobby expert on it.. I know there is a lot of purists out there.. But it doesnt have to be all that bad to do something like this.. Ever since I moved to the United States, everyone is very proud of (and should be) freedom of speech.. the thing that brought us into this board is the love of cars.. and for us its a 914 right. Some of us are going fast and some are not.. but when someone asks any of us what kind of car we drive we say: 914.. I love to read all the tech threads in here, it has helped me so much! So lets all drink a and sing kumbaja by the camp fire!

I hope to offer a kit that a backyard mechanic could install by themselves. This will only happen if I am very pleased with how my install works out. I am doing everything with an eye towards producing this kit.
I'll be more that happy to drink a beer with you but I'm just not a kumbaja kind of guy.

I continue to see many make quotes that a Subaru engine conversion is lighter than a T4. Does anyone have weights of a fully plumbed radiator, adaptor plate and the additional mounting hardware required for the Soobie conversion. What is the actual weight of the various Subaru engines? I'm not convinced a Subaru engine conversion, once its installed, is lighter than a T4.

I do agree that 914 loses a lot of character without a T4 or a small displacement six. That's why I chose a carbed 2.4 six for my project. I'll likely crush the price of a Subaru conversion and have much prettier sounds. If I drove a WRX conversion I would need to bring my iPod with correct Porsche sounds loaded and drive around with my headphones on all the time to drown out the mad farting sound of the Subaru engine!

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Feb 13 2006, 05:45 PM)

I continue to see many make quotes that a Subaru engine conversion is lighter than a T4. Does anyone have weights of a fully plumbed radiator, adaptor plate and the additional mounting hardware required for the Soobie conversion. What is the actual weight of the various Subaru engines? I'm not convinced a Subaru engine conversion, once its installed, is lighter than a T4. I do agree that 914 loses a lot of character without a T4 or a small displacement six. That's why I chose a carbed 2.4 six for my project. I'll likely crush the price of a Subaru conversion and have much prettier sounds. If I drove a WRX conversion I would need to bring my iPod with correct Porsche sounds loaded and drive around with my headphones on all the time to drown out the mad farting sound of the Subaru engine!

Well I don't know much about the weight....(unless it's my own, which just ain't pretty! )

But as far as sound quality goes....when I met Scott the 914 had a 1.8 stock engine in it. After the Suby conversion I jumped in the car with him and drove across the country in it. She sounded exactly the same to me with just a hint of throatiness.

Trust me, I, of all people had a great opertunity to hear what both engines sound like.....and there isn't a diffrence. So by all means keep your iPod on whatever kind of tunes you like....

The choice of a stock type four - or a hot rodded type four - or a porsche 6 of any level, or a subaru powered 914 is not about which is better or worse in theory - it is about what each of us prefers based on a variety of personal reasons.

I am happy to see a 914 on the road regardless of what powers it - but a clean six with 5 lug suspension will probably always impress me most - this though is way outside my budget - thus I am leaning toward a naturally aspired subaru ej22 2.2L 135HP power plant now more than ever due to Steve's efforts of getting an ej powerplant to work in a 914 with subaru 5spd tranny

For me the reasons are: total cost, power, reliability, overall weight, gas mileage, water for heat, etc

boxters vs briefs - get a similar about of debate

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 13 2006, 05:13 PM)

I hope to offer a kit that a backyard mechanic could install by themselves. This will only happen if I am very pleased with how my install works out. I am doing everything with an eye towards producing this kit. I'll be more that happy to drink a beer with you but I'm just not a kumbaja kind of guy.

we can skip the song hahah. I just didnt like the tone that was going on for a while.. we are slaves under the 914 god, and lets not start a war among us.. I have learned so much from being in the us.. culture shock at least.. and i hope those i met have learned a little about sweden..

wow, sign me up, ill buy it from you. would that be with the suby tranny too? I know you want to be happy with your own conversion.. and I sure hope you will be.. do you have any timeframe as how long it will take to get a kit done.. im looking to do the swap this coming winter, since I'm hoping the 1.8 will have a little life left.

thanks guys!

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Feb 13 2006, 05:45 PM)

What is the actual weight of the various Subaru engines? I'm not convinced a Subaru engine conversion, once its installed, is lighter than a T4.

According to the KEP product catalog (they list all their conversions, motors, HP ratings and most weights), the Suby 2.0, 2.2, and 2.5 weigh in at 260 lbs.

I'm still happy with that compared to a 450lb V8....

Dana, what was the weight of your car that you got from the truck scales?

Just called Dana, he told me the actual weight of his car full of gas with a full cage and a 600watt sound system is 2180lbs.

QUOTE (WRX914 @ Feb 13 2006, 02:14 PM)

reliable 911 killing power reliable 993 killing power reliable 996 killing power reliable 997 killing power

Okay, okay. I have no sense of humor. This is a joke.

But is there anyone out there in TV land that really thinks a hybrid 30 year old bug and motortrend motor can really contend with the latest from Stuttgart?

QUOTE (MattR @ Feb 14 2006, 09:41 AM)

QUOTE (WRX914 @ Feb 13 2006, 02:14 PM) reliable 911 killing power reliable 993 killing power reliable 996 killing power reliable 997 killing power Okay, okay. I have no sense of humor. This is a joke. But is there anyone out there in TV land that really thinks a hybrid 30 year old bug and motortrend motor can really contend with the latest from Stuttgart?

Just ask Dana how the 997 stacked up against his turbo...

granted, it (997) was not a turbo... but he was in a brand new 997 and he was looking at the rear end of Dana's teener by the time he got to the next light. If you are driving Dana's car, you need to start in 2nd. The 997 took him off of the line, but once he got rolling it was nothing but rear view mirror for the 997...

Dana's car is capable of 60mph in 1st(actually 2nd) , 90mph in 2nd (actually 3rd), 120+ in 3rd (4th) and I believe he has had it up to 150+ in 4th (5th). Not a killer off the line, but with a little clutch it seems to do ok.

His car does haul ass.

997

QUOTE (WRX914 @ Feb 14 2006, 09:57 AM)

granted, it (997) was not a turbo... but he was in a brand new 997 and he was looking at the rear end of Dana's teener by the time he got to the next light. If you are driving Dana's car, you need to start in 2nd. The 997 took him off of the line, but once he got rolling it was nothing but rear view mirror for the 997... Dana's car is capable of 60mph in 1st(actually 2nd) , 90mph in 2nd (actually 3rd), 120+ in 3rd (4th) and I believe he has had it up to 150+ in 4th (5th). Not a killer off the line, but with a little clutch it seems to do ok. His car does haul ass. 997

are you drag racing?

this is the wrong forum

with the right driver, a 996 cup car can do 1:26s at big willow. thats pretty quick. The 997 is even quicker.

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Feb 13 2006, 05:45 PM)

I continue to see many make quotes that a Subaru engine conversion is lighter than a T4. Does anyone have weights of a fully plumbed radiator, adaptor plate and the additional mounting hardware required for the Soobie conversion. What is the actual weight of the various Subaru engines? I'm not convinced a Subaru engine conversion, once its installed, is lighter than a T4.

My scale says - The Suby engine is 236 pounds plus 18 pounds for the fuel supply and injectors, alternator and bracket plus the throttle body. I think the radiator full of water would add 20 lbs - top.
The T4 broke my scale

QUOTE (MattR @ Feb 14 2006, 10:04 AM)

QUOTE (WRX914 @ Feb 14 2006, 09:57 AM) granted, it (997) was not a turbo... but he was in a brand new 997 and he was looking at the rear end of Dana's teener by the time he got to the next light.  If you are driving Dana's car, you need to start in 2nd.  The 997 took him off of the line, but once he got rolling it was nothing but rear view mirror for the 997... Dana's car is capable of 60mph in 1st(actually 2nd) , 90mph in 2nd (actually 3rd), 120+ in 3rd (4th) and I believe he has had it up to 150+ in 4th (5th).  Not a killer off the line, but with a little clutch it seems to do ok. His car does haul ass. 997 are you drag racing? this is the wrong forum with the right driver, a 996 cup car can do 1:26s at big willow. thats pretty quick. The 997 is even quicker.

No, I think he was just having fun on the weekends. And there is no way a Suby converted teener on a normal mans budget could keep up with a cup car . This was just a regular stock 997...

Ahh, you sorta have to ignore the whole "budget" thing. The latest from stuttgart will cost ya six figures. A sube conversion can be done for 4, from what I hear... big difference

guys

even if a suby engine would not be my first choice, it's still a 914 ...
i'd rather see people drive a suby-914 than no 914 at all.

and if you really want to make an impression at the drag-strip (or the stop light),
go electric!

nothing like 1000+ flbs of torque at 0 (zero) RPM ...
Andy

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Feb 14 2006, 10:31 AM)

i'd rather see people drive a suby-914 than no 914 at all.

I can't believe someone actually had to ask this group if we had an opinion!!

My opinion is that I don't want a porscharu to sound like a type IV. I want it to sound like a 6!

Anyone know if the 3.0 liter H6 would fit? Supposedly 75lbs more than an EJ25 but only an inch longer. Not sure about width. I read somewhere someone stuffed one into an Impreza with stock tranny, but I'm not sure that means it would work with the normal Kennedy VW-Soob adapter kit.

Firing order is different than Porsche-6, but I have a hunch it would still sound sweet!

Price is for sure higher, at least at this point in time, but if one could be had for cheapish... fun-fun-fun

QUOTE (MattR @ Feb 14 2006, 11:04 AM)

are you drag racing? this is the wrong forum with the right driver, a 996 cup car can do 1:26s at big willow. thats pretty quick. The 997 is even quicker.

how can you compare a track only prepped "cup car" to a street driven 914???

hp to weight the 914/suby should have the edge depeding on the config.....

suspension wise, yes, the 997 better have the edge, but how far off will they be??

interesting to see an engineering student such as yourself being so negative on such a swap

QUOTE

That's why I chose a carbed 2.4 six for my project. I'll likely crush the price of a Subaru conversion and have much prettier sounds.

not wishing any "ill will", but all it takes is one bad downshift and your "economy" /SIX conversion has now gone up 300% in costs out of pocket unless you find another killer deal.........

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Feb 14 2006, 10:31 AM)

guys  :rolleyes: even if a suby engine would not be my first choice, it's still a 914 ... i'd rather see people drive a suby-914 than no 914 at all. and if you really want to make an impression at the drag-strip (or the stop light), go electric! nothing like 1000+ flbs of torque at 0 (zero) RPM ...  Andy

you are correct sir!



I build custom golf carts... www.koolkartz.com
We made a club car go over 100mph with very little modifications. Electric motors are killer off of the line, talk about neck snap!