i think it's time that i explain a few things (kinda long) ...

- the reason we hired "The Badass Moderator From Hell" as a new Admin had *nothing* to do with Mike Zois, he just showed his boobies at the wrong place at the wrong time.

- we (the admin team) decided to hire the new admin for one reason only:
we needed a "anonymous" admin that was able to handle the more delicate matters of a admins job.
in particular, the recent incidents in the sandbox made it clear to us that we need a admin member that is anonymous as every time one of us tried to intervene we were accused of "abusing our admin powers to force a personal agenda onto other members".

for example, i was accused of "namecalling" (which is against the rules of the sandbox) for telling a member that i thought his "mind was clouded". after my post, the thread declined into a "namecalling fest" against me, then turned to hatred against muslims and then turned really ugly after that.
when i decided to delete the thread, i was accused of pushing my own agenda on people.
i was called all kinds of nice names which i won't repeat here, but it was clear that either, a admin can not have a personal opinion and express that opinion here without running the risk of being called a nazi, left wing asshole, terrorist etc., or, we were going to hire a anonymous admin that can handle out of control threads without having to worry about personal attacks.

- the "The Badass Moderator From Hell" *will* stay anonymous for exactly the above reasons.
he/she has agreed to only deal with "abusive" threads that go against the few rules on this board and otherwise stay in the background and not be active in any other way.

- avatars. a few thoughts about "offending" avatars ...
i know i can turn off avatars, signatures and even images in my preferences.
i also know that only one (1!) member out of over 5000 members keeps on insisting to show naked boobs and such in the name of his freedom of expression.
while it probably doesn't offend all 5000 members, it does offend quite a few.
i don't think it shows much "respect" for fellow club members to FORCE your "freedom of expression" onto them.
you really think 5000 people should abandon their ability to see posted pictures, signatures and avatars just to allow one guy to live out his infantile wet dream?

- guests. like it or not, we have a lot of "guests", people that just stop by to check out the clubsite. they can browse threads and see avatars, signatures and posted pictures. they have *no* way of turning off any of those. i have no idea how many people never became members because they saw offending avatars etc., but i assume there were a few.

- i don't want to turn off avatars. i don't want to turn off signatures. i don't want to browse this site without looking at posted pictures.

- i work on a computer all day. i always have the clubsite open in a browser window. i also work in a office together with female co-workers. every time i scroll through a page with naked boobs, i risk a "sexual harassment lawsuit".
and for what? so one guy can be "cool" ???
others have wife and kids at home. should they have to turn off all the features on this board to make ONE GUY happy ???

- am i the only one who thinks this person shows a complete lack of respect for other club members?

- for those who haven't been here long enough, we have been through this same "discussion" a few times. it seems about once per year.
Mike Zois has been warned through PMs and emails more times than i can count.
sometimes he does comply with an admin request, sometimes he doesn't.
it seems, for him, it's a game. finding out how far he can push people before they get upset.
the new admin did not buy into this game and gave zois a public warning. in my book, that was perfectly OK ...

- the sandbox. the sandbox was created to give you a forum where you can do pretty much anything you want (there are a few rules however).
the sandbox is also *not* visible to guests. anything not PG-13 or not car related was supposed to go into the sandbox. this has worked fairly well so far, but remember, avatars and signatures are not confined to the sandbox.


any questions?
Andy

Here, here!


KT

no need to explain andy.

being an admin is a thinkless job, so to you all i offer


Errr.. i meant

Damn 3rd times the charm yeah that's it.

I dont think anyone would say you (admin crew) are doing a bad job. It's just some "creative" suggestions.

BJH

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Feb 15 2006, 02:55 PM)

any questions? Andy

Nope...

That's all great, but...

If Islam doesn't want my ire, let them kiss my ass shaped Mohammed bobble head doll.

All things... considered.

With regards,


M

Seems reasonable.

I like '*''s boobs. At least it's not his ass in the avatar any more...
But I too like to peruse the site while at work and find myself having to quickly scroll past the jiggling mammaries from time to time to avoid problems.

I suppose we can't use this smilie anymore either huh?

Andy,
You don't sound unreasonable at all.

Well done Andy.

I have to admit, I liked the "booby" pictures. But this is not the place. I too risk a sexual harrassment issue at work, I work with 12 females each and every day. This is a car site, not a porn site. If your into that then go to the porn site and have a ball.


Andy, again, well done.

I like boobies

But looking at them is your privlage.
Forcing others to view them is not your right.

I thank the admin for keeping some measure of decency. My kids look over my shoulder and that isn't on my list of things to explain just yet.

Thanks for having a SET!

(warning, potentially offensive link)

I can live with that.

Just as a thought for future issues...perhaps the admins should PM the offending parties. Give them a one, two three strike....whatever you see fit, rule. All of this via PMs. If they refuse, then and only then go public with some sort of "Hey, you've been warned privately, now we're making it public" topic.

It gives the party in the wrong the opportunity to fix the problem and save face. And in the end if it gets ugly, the admins will have the documentation that they tried to be nice guys and it didn't work. If all of that doesn't work, they get a public "Good bye" and we all know they were warned.

Just a thought to perhaps keep the admins void of any of the "assholes with agendas" labels that you mentioned above.

Very well put Andy. I've stayed out of all of these discussions over the years. The current rules seem to me like common sense. I really don't understand why this issue continues to be so controversial and comes up over and over again, and why it has to be continually explained (as you have again) over and over again.

I applaud and support the changes. Maybe this issue can finally be put to rest.

Demick

Problem being we don't know how many (if any at all) PMs have been sent to Mike. So it's pretty presumptuous to accuse the admins of not PMing and just calling Mike out on the forum. Almost all the admins, in one thread or another, have alluded to sending mike multiple PMs in the past.

And I have it on good authority Andy's a leg man. No wonder Mikey's boobie avatar offended him. I kid! I kid!

Jen

QUOTE (Jenny @ Feb 15 2006, 03:20 PM)

Problem being we don't know how many (if any at all) PMs have been sent to Mike. So it's pretty presumptuous to accuse the admins of not PMing and just calling Mike out on the forum. Almost all the admins, in one thread or another, have alluded to sending mike multiple PMs in the past.

Jenny,

I agree. I was trying to clarify that with my idea. Basically, if it is posted in the forum, we know that at a minimum that the person has been warned privately and that didn't work. I'm not talking about this latest issue. I was just trying to give the admins some cover going forward.

Hell, none of this impacts me as my posts are so boring that no one reads them anyways. Well....obviously you read my post here!!

Well put Andy

I think we all appreciate a good set of boobs, but that's not why we come to this site.

No need to explain. Sir, you are the best. You deserve respect. See my post over on the bird board. I was locked out from posting over there last night. Did I cry or blame someone else? No! I did it, I meant it. I accepted the lock down and cool off time. That's never happened to me here.

Good job!

Nicely put Andy.

T

QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Feb 16 2006, 12:26 AM)

See my post over on the bird board. I was locked out from posting over there last night. Did I cry or blame someone else? No! I did it, I meant it. I accepted the lock down and cool off time. That's never happened to me here.

that can be arranged, you know

limitations and expectations of conduct well defined. no more gray area. perfectly clear. hooray.

k

Well said!

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Feb 15 2006, 04:02 PM)

QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Feb 16 2006, 12:26 AM) See my post over on the bird board. I was locked out from posting over there last night. Did I cry or blame someone else? No! I did it, I meant it. I accepted the lock down and cool off time. That's never happened to me here. that can be arranged, you know

very well put and i agree whole heartedly !

QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Feb 15 2006, 05:16 PM)

QUOTE (Jeroen @ Feb 15 2006, 04:02 PM) QUOTE (rick 918-S @ Feb 16 2006, 12:26 AM) See my post over on the bird board. I was locked out from posting over there last night. Did I cry or blame someone else? No! I did it, I meant it. I accepted the lock down and cool off time. That's never happened to me here. that can be arranged, you know

Great post Andy. I wish you would have done that the day the rules were re-posted.

That said, I still disagree that an anonymous admin is needed. You feel that it is, and provide reasonable evidence. It's your board, so you get what you need. However, I would suggest that you rename the anonymous admin to somethine a little less confrontational.

Thanks,
Joe

thank you.

Again, I'm new here, but well said Andy. One question though if one person keeps doing this over and over, why allow it to create havoc, just ban him and be done with it, 'tis your kingdom that we are playing in.

QUOTE (Jenny @ Feb 15 2006, 03:20 PM)

And I have it on good authority Andy's a leg man.

sssshhhh, you weren't supposed to tell!

geez...and I thought you were just into TWIN PLUGS!

Well done Andy!

Bill P.

Whoever posted the multiple :mgw: "Look at me!" smileys and then deleted your post...

You got your wish.

Happy now?

Hey grantsfo

Quit deleting your posts. That's lame.

And annoying.

Perfectly put, perfectly reasonable -- well done Andy.

And, I think a (nuther) thank you should be made to ALL of the admins for all the work they do for all of us guests -- registered or not!



(even the anon among us).

pete

QUOTE (Gint @ Feb 15 2006, 04:44 PM)

Whoever posted the multiple :mgw: "Look at me!" smileys and then deleted your post... You got your wish.

I'm down.

Freedom of speech is a concept that doesn't in fact exist anywhere that I know of.

I liken the forum to playing ball at someone's house. You gotta play by their rules, it's their house.

You want to play by your rules, invite people over to your house. Don't be surprised though if people still want to hang with the cool kids at the first guy's house. There's a reason they are there in the first place.

Quick comment on the "Exile Page" on the bird board. It's not exile if it's self imposed! That's self-serving martyrdom.

Suppose we could just let this die a peaceful natural death?

Uhhh... I agree too, but MikeP's "link" has me running for the nearest sink!

QUOTE (D1A3 @ Feb 15 2006, 05:39 PM)

Uhhh... I agree too, but MikeP's "link" has me running for the nearest sink!

You throw up in the sink?

I puke wherever is convenient, so long as it does not end up on me!

I hope i'm not one of them "shit stirrers".

If I feel my panties getting in to a bind, I remember that this site has brought me so much knowledge and friendships that I get real grateful.

I've got a "Top Ten" list of guys who have given of themselves selflessly to me personally.

They're real decent guys and I'd have no problems with doing a week up at WCC and havin' some fun.

I disagree with much of what is said, especially in the sandbox. I take it with a grain of salt. All this name calling stuff is just childish. Whoops, did I just call anyone a name?

My last post.

I never got a PM.
I never got a complaint.
A poster called me and told me that there was a thread about me.

I came home on Valentine's Day and found a thread with my name IN CAPS in the subject line.

I PM'd Bad Ass, did not get a response.
I posted a thread about Bad Ass, it was deleted.

Whoever Bad Ass is, they had better stay anonymous, as I will have an up close and personal discussion with that person some day. This was handled badly.

I have not been banned, I have chosen to leave.

I am not taking my ball and running away. There is notheing left here that interests me.


Have Fun.

It great comments and threats like that mike, that make me finally speak up.

Leave! and good luck in life!

Rich

Although I am not completely up to date on this entire subject I guess that some sensitive people are upset with bouncing female parts and so forth. Heres a couple things I have been thinking.

1. Many countries laugh at our over sensitivity to nudity and fidelity. The morality police have gotten out of control. Many Europeans (chime in anytime Jeroen) that have been married for a significant period of time have another man or woman in their life. They understand that intimate relations change over time. We are so amazingly sensitive to peoples feelings, that everything we do is sanitized. You can't make a compliment to a woman today without feeling concern for how it might be taken, and frankly... I am sick of it!

2. This is not something new. In the 60's my father served as a chapter president for a local Porsche Club. The monthly newsletter was aptly named "FERRY TALES". After about the 10th month of publication a new member suggested that the name poorly represented the club. My dad laughed at the fact that the man was so insecure with himself, that the club he belonged to could'nt even have a "play on words" as a title for their newsletter. He served one term and after being a member for several years he chose not to renew. He said many years later, This was the indicator that the club would cater to it's image as opposed to just plain having fun.

3. Also consider this: we are all born without clothing. Clothing was developed to cover us to shield us from the elements, nothing else.

4. Much real art uses the male and female body as the highest form of artistic expression. I really like Mrs. K's photos/avatars. They are very tasteful, and in many cases have a nice artistic flair to them. People would much rather watch the perfect form of a naked breast or penis than the whisps of snow being blown from the north ridge of the Matterhorn. Personally I don't care. If its funny or interesting to watch or creates conversation it may be art, but who's to say.

The question here appears to be choice. I like to see womans breasts, naked or covered, in motion or still (I like Mikes avatars). But I would not care to see a mans penis naked or covered, in motion or still. So I understand how some would ask certain avatars to be cleaned up.

I wonder this? If you are for open avatars, would it be okay
to see an active or still photo of your own same sexual derivative. Be it Hetero or Homo or Metro? If you say it would not be okay, than you stand for cleaned up avatars I would assume.

My concern is: are we eliminating any sense of flair and color, and just dipping the site in alcohol to sanitize it.

Pretty soon if we keep eliminating individuality and the color, there won't be anything to write about. Just like our schools, as we eliminate elective credits to focus on math/english/Science, pretty soon we won't have anything to write, cypher or ponder about.


Erik Madsen

Post Script: I think I wrote this as tastefully as possible, maybe hitting some points, maybe missing some, so if you don't like it,

Well put SirAndy. Nuff said.

Nice writeup Erik, I would just say "y'all need to take a premasin" Boy oh boy, how many people here got all uptight just to be involved...

I'll just dip myself in alcohol instead.

I have to agree Andy and most others, the boobs probably belong in boobclub.com I was reading post few days ago and my four year old came in and saw them and said " how did you do that, do it again" I really thought nothing of it, but then that evening my wife says " so you were looking at naked women on the computer today". This site has rules, we have to abide by them.
Steve

I grew up on a farm and my Dad once in awhile ran out to the mailbox naked. Seeing a 60 + Lithuanian man streak is not fun. The neighbor within eye shot didn't like it either.

In most cases, when you think of yourself you do what ever you feel like. When you think of others first, you may exercise restraint.

Thanks to the admins for making this site available. Like it or not, without it, most of us would be out in the garage scratching our heads.

As a newbie, I'm laughing at you, not with you! You guyz funny!

Seriously, one really easy way to significantly cut down on the problem and make a site a lot better is to strictly enforce an "Off Topic" rule.

There should be a forum that is for technical stuff ONLY (is that what the Garage is supposed to be?). The OT stuff should be strictly segregated in its own cesspool for those that enjoy that sort of stuff!

It works a lot better that way.