I'm kind of looking around for possible tow vehicles. I've been looking at new trucks since January, but I think the pricing just doesn't quite match with my financial situation. So now I'm looking at used options. It changes from day to day, but today I'm looking at two options:

1. Pre-Smog Toyota Land Cruiser FJ55


If I got one of these it would be a running project. This would be more along the lines of a "who cares what it looks like it's a truck" line of thinking. They're selling for $3k - $5k and are worth $10k or more when they're restored. Definite value there.

2. Early 90's Range Rover


I just today realized how cheaply these can be picked up. Luckily there is a Rover shop down the street from me, so I'll pick his brain tomorrow. These can be had for almost the same price $3.5k - $6k. Much more luxury and a nicer look, but parts are expensive and cars of this age tend to scare me that major things will start to go wrong as soon as I buy it. I'm not afraid of working on them, but if I buy something like this, I'm not looking for a project that I'm working on more than driving. Very very bad gas mileage. 13 MPG in town.


Any opinions on these two options? Any experiences?

I would run away from the Rovers. I have a few friends who had them and they couldn't give them away. Look at the Toy or maybe a Jeep.
CCLINTOWMAINPOISONING

Go for the FJ. Nice retro truck. Should be a good tow vehicle and since it is pre-smog a Chevy crate motor would slide right in.
Lots of parts and conversion materials around for it versus the Range Rover.
Can you say Lucas Electrics?

A buddy of mine had an early Toyota with a SBC conversion. That the one you need.

The All GM recyclers up in Rancho Cordova sell the motors for $750 with a 6 month warranty all day long.


KT

I like the looks of the Toyota better myself. I think Seanery had a Range Rover a while back. If I remember correctly he had problems with the airbag suspension, Sean you out there. I know it wasn't cheap.

I have a 03 Dakota Quab cab that has towed many a 914 and one 911 . No problem with it, but I would get a V8 mine's a V6 and its does the job but I wouldn't want to tow with a car behind up and major hills with it.

Having owned a Range Rover, I can accurately report that they are great when under warranty, but they are worthless crap once the warranty expires.

Move on, the Toyota will be a much more logical choice than any Rover ever could be.

I'll add my 96 F150 with the straight 6 was a great truck. Not bad gas mileage either. I could pull a house with it, man I miss that truck. Sold it to buy the "family Truck" AKA the Dakota Quad cab.

toyota.good truck many care free miles.
As far as the rover like craig said run.get your check book out when you want parts & they have poor service records

my brother has three land crushers and beats them to crap and they keep going.
james

/hijack

Out of curiosity, is an El Camino any good for towing?

/end hijack

QUOTE (KaptKaos @ Feb 20 2006, 08:49 PM)

/hijack Out of curiosity, is an El Camino any good for towing? /end hijack

Depends on the year, tranny and motor combo. We used to tow a 20foot fully self contained camping trailer with a '70 SS 396. Very gooood.
I wouldn't think some of the early ones with 2 speed Powerglide auto trannys would be too spectacular.
Anything with a 3 speed auto or 4 speed manual should be good depending on the load you plan on towing.
I tow a 8,000 pound RV with my 2000 Chevy Suburban with 4:10 gears.
Does very well for a small block.

Sorry about in advance.

How bout a 91 Ford 3/4 ton w/460.
Tows my car like it isn't even there.
I got 13 mpg towing down & back to CA.
A good one can be had for 3K or so. It'll never be a classic, tho

QUOTE (Dan (Almaden Valley) @ Feb 20 2006, 08:54 PM)

QUOTE (KaptKaos @ Feb 20 2006, 08:49 PM) /hijack Out of curiosity, is an El Camino any good for towing? /end hijack Depends on the year, tranny and motor combo. We used to tow a 20foot fully self contained camping trailer with a '70 SS 396. Very gooood. I wouldn't think some of the early ones with 2 speed Powerglide auto trannys would be too spectacular. Anything with a 3 speed auto or 4 speed manual should be good depending on the load you plan on towing. I tow a 8,000 pound RV with my 2000 Chevy Suburban with 4:10 gears. Does very well for a small block. Sorry about in advance.

Thanks Dan.

I have been looking at tow vehicles. If I plan to add more cars, I need a way to haul them around.

I don't generally like trucks, so I was looking for something a little less truckish.

Thanks again.

- Joe

QUOTE (KaptKaos @ Feb 20 2006, 10:11 PM)

I don't generally like trucks, so I was looking for something a little less truckish.

That is why I picked this set up.
A van better suits my needs. It is the only vehicle I own with more than 2 seats.
350 Chevy V8. Transmission cooler. Tows like a champ. Captains chairs & fold out bed.

QUOTE (VegasRacer @ Feb 20 2006, 09:35 PM)

A van better suits my needs. Captains chairs & fold out bed.

if john's van's a rockin'..............

the old fj's are great. over built, good axles if not abused, good frames, brakes are ...unique, lots of conversions engines axles steering.
vans a making a comeback. mark my words.

A van keeps popping up as an option. But I really think I'll be more happy with something that has some "character". I think I'll be shopping for an FJ55. The Rover sounds like a dead end. Kind of what I figured when the prices were so low. I think I could make one work if I really wanted to, but I don't.

This has served me well for many miles and years.
CCLINTOWJAM

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 20 2006, 08:05 PM)

I'm kind of looking around for possible tow vehicles.  I've been looking at new trucks since January, but I think the pricing just doesn't quite match with my financial situation.  So now I'm looking at used options.  It changes from day to day, but today I'm looking at two options: 1.  Pre-Smog Toyota Land Cruiser FJ55 If I got one of these it would be a running project.  This would be more along the lines of a "who cares what it looks like it's a truck" line of thinking.  They're selling for $3k - $5k and are worth $10k or more when they're restored.  Definite value there. Any opinions on these two options?  Any experiences?

I want one of those with a Cummins 4BT. I saw one in a smaller landcruiser. Got over 30MPG plenty of power - loud as hell tho (think of a small FedEx truck) My friends dad had one like that with a stock 327 for cruising Baja he loved it.

I like cool tow vehicles... I was towing my Rabbit with a 73 Bronco..... but, at some point I came to realize that I only have a finite amount of time to work on vehicles and my priority is to work on the race car.

So, the question you have to ask yourself is: "Will I be pissed if the race car's ready and the tow vehicle needs work, and the race is this weekend?" Most people (including me) have enough trouble keeping up with the race car.

My daily driver is also my tow vehicle. It is a 99 F150 with the 5.4 V-8. It tows great and I'm happy to say I hit 100K miles and it has yet to have a single problem. Before that I had a 90 Bronco with a 350 that would pull a house. I was going 70 towing a boat once when I six foot metal shelf came flying out of the pickup in front of me. The Bronco nailed it and simply crushed it like a bug with the only damage being my high heart rate. That shelf would have been in the windshield of most cars.

I would look for a mid 80s Blazer or Suburban with a 6.2 Diesel. I put an updated injection pump on my Suburban and and it tows great. The mileage is awesome too while towing.

No doubt. You want the Toy-Yoda. Then you want it painted with your shop info or at least a magnetic decal.

The classic truck will be so different that people will notice and remember it. Plus, Toyotas and Land Cruisers are tough trucks, while Land Rovers are luxury vehicles with capabilities that most owners never use and are therefore mostly pretense.

On top of that, depending on your neighbourhood, the bulletproof panels of the older Toyotas can come in real handy.

Two years ago this truck cost me $1300 w/o 1st and 3rd gear and no radio.
Put in used tranny, rebuilt head, timing chain and front engine cover.
Now shows 309,000 miles.

mark, you should have added a plain jane older 2wd 3/4 ton pickup to the list (with an international you can go down to a 1/2 t ). the gas milage will pretty much be the same empty, loaded, or towing. you really need a truck with a bed. they should be priced right and you can load the them with less hassle. why would you buy a project vehicle for a tow vehicle?

k

QUOTE (groot @ Feb 21 2006, 04:19 AM)

I like cool tow vehicles... I was towing my Rabbit with a 73 Bronco..... but, at some point I came to realize that I only have a finite amount of time to work on vehicles and my priority is to work on the race car. So, the question you have to ask yourself is: "Will I be pissed if the race car's ready and the tow vehicle needs work, and the race is this weekend?" Most people (including me) have enough trouble keeping up with the race car.

Kevin, you are right about that. I work on my race car. The truck-someone else can work on it.

I have a Dodge Ram w/ a 318ci. Everyday driver and tow truck.

and it can haul a yard of top soil or gravel. think multi-purpose mark.

k

Oh, here's another tip: Don't live it unlocked with the key in the dash airbag switch......



It will sooner or later it be missing one morning.

(I can laugh about it now)


P

$1500 busted LC on ebay

Mark, are you going to use it for advertising as well? The Land Cruiser deffinately has character which is good for grabbing attention, but vans have more space for ad's and such.

I picked up an Astro for $50. The previous owner just couldn't figure out why the battery kept getting drained and got fed up with it. I jokingly offered $50 and he took it. Turns out the brake pedal was not getting released all the way and the brake lights were draining the battery.

The v6 Astros/ Safaris have torquey v6's that are great for towing, and it just so happens that SBC 350's slide right in, bolt right up to the existing tranny even.

I have a '94 Discovery with ~140,000 miles on it and no major problems. Its towed the teener before as well as a bunch other stuff. Not fast, but it was fine. I bought it because it was cheap used and figured the difference in proce between it and other similar vehicles on the used market would pay for a lot of repairs that I haven't needed. One thing to look for is service History on Rovers. The service intervals spec for the trucks are 1/2 as long in the rest of the world compared with the US. Good POs normally follow the World service schedule rather than the US.

Nick

QUOTE (sharper @ Feb 21 2006, 05:54 AM)

My daily driver is also my tow vehicle. It is a 99 F150 with the 5.4 V-8. It tows great and I'm happy to say I hit 100K miles and it has yet to have a single problem. Before that I had a 90 Bronco with a 350 that would pull a house. I was going 70 towing a boat once when I six foot metal shelf came flying out of the pickup in front of me. The Bronco nailed it and simply crushed it like a bug with the only damage being my high heart rate. That shelf would have been in the windshield of most cars.

Me too - 2002 F350 Powerstroke crewcab 4x4. Never less that 16MPG (all city driving.) Over 20 on the freeway, and comfortable. Tows big stuff like it's not there, I didn't even notice the 7000lb trailer with my Bridgeport on it. It is a real PITA to park.
It likes biodiesel (a real hybrid) when I can get it so I can be "clean"

96-98 Suburban 5.7

Awesome truck, tons of space, 5-8 Grand buys a real nice one here in Idaho. Feels like a nice modern car, decent mileage for a big rig. 2 Feet of snow? No problem.

I love the FJs but woun't want to road trip one.

If I didn't need 4wd I would be rockin' a fully custom van with airbrushed beach scene and teardrop window.

The cruisers are bitchin' but they don't have gears for freeway driving. Ask me how I know, I've owned 2 FJ-40's. One with a 350 conversion, one with the original 2F 6 cylinder. If you want to tow on the freeway, I don't know if I would screw around with a Landcruiser. I mean, they will tow fine, just don't expect to go more than 55 mph. I knew a guy who did the 350 with AT and Power Steering and that really drove great.

I like those early 4runners like pictured above. The conversion vans are a nice ticket too. Something else to consider, a Jeep Wagoneer.

My current old 4wd is a Scout II. I just gotta keep an old truck around.

Its been pictured here before, but here it is again.

QUOTE (jasons @ Feb 21 2006, 12:09 PM)

If you want to tow on the freeway, I don't know if I would screw around with a Landcruiser. I mean, they will tow fine, just don't expect to go more than 55 mph.

I take it you have never been puller over for towing over 55. That's the limit here in good ol' Kalifornia - I got a ticket for 60 towing a boat.

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 21 2006, 01:22 PM)

QUOTE (jasons @ Feb 21 2006, 12:09 PM) If you want to tow on the freeway, I don't know if I would screw around with a Landcruiser.  I mean, they will tow fine, just don't expect to go more than 55 mph. I take it you have never been puller over for towing over 55. That's the limit here in good ol' Kalifornia - I got a ticket for 60 towing a boat.

I think we are only limitted by the speed limit here. 75 mph on most interstates out of urban areas.

Sorry you guys all live in the Republik of Kalifornia. At least they don't emisson test your early Porsches. Oh well we can carry guns to town.

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 20 2006, 08:05 PM)

I'm kind of looking around for possible tow vehicles. I've been looking at new trucks since January, but I think the pricing just doesn't quite match with my financial situation. So now I'm looking at used options. It changes from day to day, but today I'm looking at two options: 1. Pre-Smog Toyota Land Cruiser FJ55 If I got one of these it would be a running project. This would be more along the lines of a "who cares what it looks like it's a truck" line of thinking. They're selling for $3k - $5k and are worth $10k or more when they're restored. Definite value there. 2. Early 90's Range Rover I just today realized how cheaply these can be picked up. Luckily there is a Rover shop down the street from me, so I'll pick his brain tomorrow. These can be had for almost the same price $3.5k - $6k. Much more luxury and a nicer look, but parts are expensive and cars of this age tend to scare me that major things will start to go wrong as soon as I buy it. I'm not afraid of working on them, but if I buy something like this, I'm not looking for a project that I'm working on more than driving. Very very bad gas mileage. 13 MPG in town. Any opinions on these two options? Any experiences?

My personal favorite tow vehicle has held up well over the years.
Unknown mileage - 7 still goin' strong!!!

Well I'm going a ton of different directions.

I definitely don't need a truck for hauling things like yards of dirt around. I don't even own a house and on those rare occasions, I know plenty of people who own trucks. I'm all for versatility, but I'm not going to base my decision on factors that don't pertain to my situation.

I talked to the Land Rover shop across the street and he wasn't nearly at down on the Rover as ya'll are. He said that the head gaskets are a breeze to replace if necessary and the air suspension can be replaced with coil spings, no problem. It's probably not going to be my first choice, but it's still not completely out of my head.

The FJ55 sounds like it's going to be painful on the freeway. I've seen them with a 3 or a 4 speed. I'm wondering if the 4 speed is more comfortable. The ultimate plan for the FJ would be to pick up a runner that I can cruise around for awhile and then replace the engine with a torquey V8 and get a nice automatic transmission. Honestly, I love this option, but it does have a fair amount of work involved. But I figure if I can set aside around $8k, I could build a really nice FJ. $3k for the chassis, $1.5k for the motor, $1k for the tranny, $1.5k for paint, $1k for interior.

I'm checking out my options. It's a tough decision. I appreciate everyone's advice and opinions.

Mark,
it's the little stuff on the Range Rover. I spent over $3700 in maintenance during my last year of ownership. That was only a 6 year old RR with 61k miles. About $1500 was airbag, the other $2200 was stupid engineering. If you are considering one at all - DON'T. Disco's are a much better option. I'd recomend that if you think you need something with the Rover name on it.

my buddy drives the snot out of his 1990 rover. he drives it back and forth to the left coast all the time. i think he has about 185k miles on it. regular maintenance is the key. get the model before the mid 90's body change. the newer ones are crap.

McMark -

First post here since I have been in lurk mode for awhile in my quest for a 914. I thought I would offer up some information to help confuse you.

I own two Land Rovers, one a Defender 90 and one a Range Rover LWB. I would not recommend using a Defender for towing, but Range Rovers are very capable of towing. Here is a link for your reading pleasure that is topical.

Rovers have heavy duty axles and drivetrains, and designed oil and transmission coolers from the get go.

You are contemplating putting in a V8 and an automatic tranny. That is exactly what Range Rovers feature. The Rover V8 is based off the Buick 215 and has an exceptionally flat torque curve from very low speeds. The transmission is a ZF 4HP22 and is a solid performer. You do not have to make a large powertrain retrofit like you would with the FJ55. Use a FJ55 with a load on the back via California freeways and you will live in the right lane.

Others on this thread have mentioned their past experience and frustrations with Rovers. They are definitely not for everyone. If a small electrical switch going bad drives you nuts, this may not be your solution.

Seanery mentioned the killer expense of air suspensions, and the Land Rover shop across from you talked about replacing the air springs with coils. I have looked at this issue ad nauseam. Relacing bladders used to cost $500 per wheel. If the air suspension valve block went out, it was $1,400 new from the dealer. That, in my opinion is where Rover gets it reputation.

Currently Arnott Industries provides bladders for $100 per wheel, with a life time guarantee. I just replaced all the o-ring and reworked my entire air suspension valve block and springs from a kit that cost $12. I am good to go for another 125,000 miles. I would not hesitate to buy a Range Rover Classic that has an air suspension issue, because it can be purchased from a "don't wanter" for cheap and fixed with parts that will not bust your budget.

If you were doing expeditions in a third world country, then I would consider the coils a safe way to go. If you want to pitch the air suspension, that is easy to do for about $450. The key to the air suspension is that is does self levelling, and when you are hauling, that is a great feature to have. Some people moan about the negatives of an air suspension. I remind them that tires are filled with air and most 18 wheelers that carry loads millions of miles each day use air suspensions.

I am not trying to talk you into a Rover, but you have a distinct advantage over most owners. You are very knowledgeable about wrenching, and have a Land Rover shop within shouting distance. For the $8,000 you are talking about, you can purchase a well taken care of RRC, completely redo the air suspension for $500 and bank $4,000 for future repairs.

Just my $.02.

BTW, I am looking for a teener in San Diego area and really like this forum as a resource. I have started my long term RAT fund and look forward to your posts.

Good luck with your towing purchase no matter which direction you go. If you do end up buying a Rover, let me know and I will help you with any air suspension issue you run into.

Cheers,

Jeff

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 20 2006, 08:05 PM)

I'm kind of looking around for possible tow vehicles. I've been looking at new trucks since January, but I think the pricing just doesn't quite match with my financial situation. So now I'm looking at used options. It changes from day to day, but today I'm looking at two options: 1. Pre-Smog Toyota Land Cruiser FJ55 If I got one of these it would be a running project. This would be more along the lines of a "who cares what it looks like it's a truck" line of thinking. They're selling for $3k - $5k and are worth $10k or more when they're restored. Definite value there. 2. Early 90's Range Rover I just today realized how cheaply these can be picked up. Luckily there is a Rover shop down the street from me, so I'll pick his brain tomorrow. These can be had for almost the same price $3.5k - $6k. Much more luxury and a nicer look, but parts are expensive and cars of this age tend to scare me that major things will start to go wrong as soon as I buy it. I'm not afraid of working on them, but if I buy something like this, I'm not looking for a project that I'm working on more than driving. Very very bad gas mileage. 13 MPG in town. Any opinions on these two options? Any experiences?

hmmm how about an early Ford Bronco 4x4? my boss has his for sale. if interested i'll ask him about an asking price. Here's a similar picture of his ride, except his is two toned blue on top n tan on bottom IIRC:

D-Lo, I've always liked Broncos, but the other half has vetoed them.

Jeff, I apprecite your insight and

I have a few contacts with Rovers for sale. The luxury aspect is high points for my woman. The "custom" aspect of the FJ is good for me. But I'm starting to think that to build the FJ to where I want it might be more project than I want right now.

I call it the Battleship!

Early Broncos that are pre-smog are nice (nice and crude like the FJ) but way overpriced for a pile of moving rust. The next generation is not smog exempt and can barely move themselves around and suck gas like the tank has a hole in it.

If you get the Land Rover you need to learn to lift your pinky while you drink your tea.

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 21 2006, 04:12 PM)

Jeff, I apprecite your insight ... The luxury aspect is high points for my woman...  The "custom" aspect of the FJ is good for me.  But I'm starting to think that to build the FJ to where I want it might be more project than I want right now.

McMark,

Thank you for the warm welcome.

I fully understand, in that I originally purchased my 1993 LWB Rover for me. Needless to say that the wife now uses it as a daily driver with a 50 mile/day round trip, so I had to buy another set of wheels. It has been a very dependable truck since I purchased it, and she has put 85,000 miles on it.

Rover does a good job of combining the more refined features that mask the beefy frame and suspension. Put it on the rack and then look at something else and you will see what I mean.

I think you have the right approach in avoiding a project towing a project. Glad to hear you have help in case you pursue the Rover. Yell if I can help, because I will probably tap you and other teener pros as I try to put one in my garage.

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 21 2006, 04:50 PM)

If you get the Land Rover you need to learn to lift your pinky while you drink your tea.

It counter balances my middle finger while I drink my beer.

I wouldn't get a Rover if I were you. I work with a consultant (not my choice) that used to be an engineer for Rover. He is an idiot.

Plus the 'yota looks cooler.

QUOTE (Hoss @ Feb 21 2006, 04:59 PM)

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 21 2006, 04:50 PM) If you get the Land Rover you need to learn to lift your pinky while you drink your tea. It counter balances my middle finger while I drink my beer.

LMAO! That's great!

I also own a 95 Discovery and Hoss is right about the frame and suspension being really beefy. For being a solid axle front end it rides really nice too.
My only gripe is the mileage. The best I have ever seen on the freeway is 16mpg. I'm looking into doing a distributor and coil conversion now. Maybe some high flow cats from Summit.
Mark here is a good place to do research on Rovers. www.pirate4x4.com or www.discoweb.org

QUOTE (Porcharu @ Feb 21 2006, 02:19 AM)

QUOTE (McMark @ Feb 20 2006, 08:05 PM) 1.  Pre-Smog Toyota Land Cruiser FJ55 I want one of those with a Cummins 4BT. I saw one in a smaller landcruiser. Got over 30MPG plenty of power - loud as hell tho (think of a small FedEx truck) My friends dad had one like that with a stock 327 for cruising Baja he loved it.

I was just thinking - Cummins conversion!
If I ever buy the power wagon / M37 it will be a cummins deisel. Its a fantastic engine.

Zach