tried running some searches on this but didnt find what i needed. how can i trim some weight off the 914. all i can come up with is:

fiberglass hood, trunk, 916 front and rear bumber and fender flares. how much do you think these changes will make and does anyone any other ideas for taking weight off.

Probably about 100 total... depending on car..

Doors you can loose some weight to.. Interior is minimal, lighting is minimal, heater system a few...

Best thing to do is strip the car, and put back everything you want on it...

And substitute things for f/g..

QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 28 2006, 12:31 AM)

any other ideas for taking weight off

lay off the beer??? exercise?

what's your goal? what's your plan with the car? why take weight off?
racing? if so, what do your class rules say about weight?

fiberglass lids and bumpers are a start. leightweight wheels & tires can do wonders.
anything interior that's not needed. early, lighter doors. remove carpet and sounddeading tar. headlights and buckets. replace floors with alu sheets.
take fan housing and tin off your motor. cut off windshield. cut off targa bar.
drill big holes in anything not absolutely needed for strength, like hinges etc.
remove starter. remove blinkers. remove pass. seat. replace all glass with lexan. remove radio. remove fresh air blower and controls. remove wipers and motor. remove heat exchangers and run headers. replace muffler with straight pipes.

i'm sure there's more ...

do a search here for URY's car, you won't get a 914 much lighter than that ...
Andy

QUOTE (SirAndy @ Feb 28 2006, 12:46 AM)

QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 28 2006, 12:31 AM) any other ideas for taking weight off lay off the beer??? exercise? what's your goal? what's your plan with the car? why take weight off? racing? if so, what do your class rules say about weight? fiberglass lids and bumpers are a start. leightweight wheels & tires can do wonders. anything interior that's not needed. early, lighter doors. remove carpet and sounddeading tar. headlights and buckets. replace floors with alu sheets. take fan housing and tin off your motor. cut off windshield. cut off targa bar. drill big holes in anything not absolutely needed for strength, like hinges etc. remove starter. remove blinkers. remove pass. seat. replace all glass with lexan. remove radio. remove fresh air blower and controls. remove wipers and motor. remove heat exchangers and run headers. replace muffler with straight pipes. i'm sure there's more ... do a search here for URY's car, you won't get a 914 much lighter than that ... Andy

lol i do need to loose some weight.... but yeah the car was suppose to be my daily driver but now im getting a truck and keeping the 914 as my toy and weekend warrior. youve probably seen alot of my post regarding engines but earlier today i saw and heard a porsche replica spyder running the track. absoulutly beautiful in both sound and looks it restored the porsche fanatic in me. so i want to keep my engine porsche and i dont think my budget will allow for a properly built 911 engine so im thinking of getting one of Jakes type 4 kits, which are great engines too. but yeah back to the reason i want to loose weight is a power to weight ratio and handling characteristics. so i have my start of fiberglass and i going to go with your idea of taking out the heater system, heater controls, and run headers. this car is just for play so like the spyder would be it would only be driven in good weather so most if not all of the time the targa top will be off too. what would you recomend for light wheels and tire combo. thanks for the help.

Panasport wheels are lite and cool.
Tar on floor boards, Stock seats are lite but the sliders are not.
Bumpers deck lids and doors are all heavy especially late doors.

The advice about determine your class before you modify is VERY good.
Wish I woulda done that

be nice to have a sticky post on the subject.

QUOTE

doors are all heavy especially late doors

What's the difference with late doors. What makes them heavier ?

Put lexan in the stock early doors and it will weigh less than 30lbs.

The early doors have no door beam. If you are putting a cage on the car use the early doors. If not leave the stock door beams in for street use. they can save your bacon and keep the SUVs out.

The late doors have side-impact beams and a different window wind-up mechanism.

'73 and later doors have side-impact beams in them. The '75/'76 cars also have gigantic and very heavy bumpers. There's roughly a 100lb difference between a '71 1.7 and a '73 1.7, and another 100-150lbs for the '75. You can lose about 175lbs off a '75 by just fitting early doors and bumpers.

It's fairly easy (bolt on parts) to get an early ('70-'72) car down about 1850lbs with no gas in it, which makes it lighter than a US spec Elise. Going any farther starts to cost a lot more, and you start removing things that make it streetable.

QUOTE

It's fairly easy (bolt on parts)

... You forget the cash and the paint

Ya mean I can't keep using rattle cans on my race car??? crap!

As stated above fiberglass or carbonfiber hood and trunk, fiberglass bumpers, use a heat gun and scrape out all the floor tar, remove the sound deadening blanket behind the rear seats, remove the pad in the engine compartment, Remove rear valance, cut out the muffler heat shield, headers, remove all the heater equipment, you can remove lower portion of the dash and save 5-6 lbs, go with early model doors, plexiglass rear window, remove the door pockets/shleves, replace with simple RS like pulls, remove back pad and then install lightweight carpet. Get rid of the washer fluid reservoir if its still in the car. Get a lightweigh battery.

If you want to get more radical you can pull out the radio, front trunk springs, rear trunk springs, remove the headlight motors and fabricate something to manually lift lights.

Also dont forget to focus on rotating weight, wheels and tires, lightened flywheel.

So Grant, what do you figure you got your car down to now?

In my opinion until you get really radical, you can feel a more substaintial improvement in acceleration and braking by putting super light wheels on the car. Any 15in wheel in the 10lbs range will make a huge diffence in the capabilities of the car. I just dropped 10lbs per corner on my street car and I can tell you it has made a substantial difference in ride, acceleration, and braking. AS well as handling. It is worth it to got to a 15x7in wheel that ways 10lbs.

read your intended club rules closely before touching anything...

example PCA puts anything with a fiberglass panel on it straight into GT and out of the production classes.

my vintage club won't even allow cars with fiberglass panels to get liscensed!

we tried to find ways to drop weight and keep metal panels.

I am pretty sure that I added 200lbs over a stock weight in oil coolers, oil capacity and the aluminum block -6 when we did our car.

Still we got our weight to 1850 wet
so the way I calculate it:
the car is 2139 - 489lbs = 1650 + 200

I think we stripped 489lbs and kept it an all metal car.
not a street car by any means but I guess the point is that there are somethings you can do.

brant

Acid dip the chassis and all associated body parts.

QUOTE (Brett W @ Feb 28 2006, 08:12 AM)

Put lexan in the stock early doors and it will weigh less than 30lbs. The early doors have no door beam. If you are putting a cage on the car use the early doors. If not leave the stock door beams in for street use. they can save your bacon and keep the SUVs out.

lol thanks for that info becuase i definitely want to keep the suvs out.

QUOTE (johannes @ Feb 28 2006, 09:26 AM)

QUOTE It's fairly easy (bolt on parts) ... You forget the cash and the paint

yeah...
not really cheap.. and not even that easy by common standards. You will have to work at it to get 1850, but its doable. $

brant

thanks for all the help you all really answered my question. you guys also came up with some good stuff.

brant, quick question for you. this is mainly going to be a street car but i would like to do some track days. will they still let me out on the track without a full roll cage with all the fiberglass or will they say i cant for safty issues. your opinion on scca auto x too. thanks.

I'm doing a lot of this weight reduction too - maximize fun out of my 1.7

Brett - 10 lb wheels!?! Most posts I've seen about 4 lug Fuchs have them at 11-12 lbs each. What wheels available are lighter than Fuchs? Some car photos I've seen have shiny aluminum kinda like Centerlines but with holes in them...are those what you are referring to.

My goal is to go 4-lug aluminum hubs, loose the brake dust shields, vented rotors (maybe), and super light rims.

You can shave 4 lbs off by going to the high-torque mini-starter! Why hasn't anybody mentioned leaving the spare tire at home and calling AAA instead? There's 20lbs off!

On track days, it depends on the organization you do the track days with. Check their rules. Most likely, a non-competitve track event isn't going to care about the FG panels, but many will care about the cage.

By "fairly easy", I meant no fabrication involved. It's also far from free, given that decent quality lids are about $400 each now. Figure about $1K for lids and bumpers. Also with an FG front hood, you have to use a prop rod to hold up the lid while you're filling up, as the trunk springs MUST be removed.

I have also seen lightweight targa roofs ... ( when needed )

I removed the stock steering wheel and found it very heavy ... I think aftermarket steering weels are also much lighter.

Aluminium Rockers is also easy to do.

whats lexan like: does it fog up easy, how does it respond to rain or moisture, does it scratch easy and can it be fitted in the window roller mechanism.

QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 28 2006, 12:37 PM)

whats lexan like: does it fog up easy, how does it respond to rain or moisture, does it scratch easy and can it be fitted in the window roller mechanism.

lexan in a street car is a bad idea in my opinion...scratches and worse yet, if you get in an accident, it's harder to break than the side glass...if you need to be pulled out the window for whatever reason the time to break the lexan can be worth valuble time....

QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 28 2006, 11:37 AM)

whats lexan like: does it fog up easy, how does it respond to rain or moisture, does it scratch easy and can it be fitted in the window roller mechanism.

You don't want to use Lexan for side windows if you still want rollup windows. Use it for fixed windows, like the rear window, or the vent window.

There's a big tradeoff between streetable and lightweight, and you're going to have to decide for yourself how far from streetable you want to go to lose weight. Losing all of the sound-deadening can net you 45-50lbs, but it will be much louder inside the car, for example.

James,

your right I'm over reacting again.
buying light weight parts isn't rocket science.


I agree with the fixed window comments and lexan.
it scratches EASILY... I wouldn't put wipers on it. In fact your not supposed to wash it without a special plastic cleaner and special rags.. so it would be better used in fixed windows, like the rear window. but then that brings up a new problem in that it probably won't fit the seal and then you might have a water leak.. etc... etc..

I'd concentrate any weight savings on comfort items.
insulation tar
lighter components to replace heavier (steering wheel, aluminum crossmember, wheels, seats)

and to answer your question about being on track
most drivers ed clubs will let you on track without full safety gear. Most wheel to wheel race organizations will not.

SCCA autox will no doubt allow all of your fiberglass modifications, but will probably bump you into a modified class.

everyone says to read the rules first for exactly this reason. when I build my first 914 at age 15years, we had a neighbor who was a nationally known formula vee engine builder. He built my motor for cost. I thought I was so cool. only problem is that he put a cam into the motor for me.

a year couple of years later I started doing drivers education through PCA. found out that my "cam" bumped me into a high class. we had classes 1 through 16 and my cam bumped me into class 14 even though it really only gave me about 5-10hp max. My local club would have put my non cammed car into class 2 instead of 14.

So I started doing events and was absolutely blown away.

here I was in a full street car with full heat, defrost and all... going against cars with at least 100 more HP than me, and tires at least twice as wide, with chassis that weighed at least 500lbs less.

needless to say I was blown away.

it was ok for about 2 years because of the learning curve and just learning basic skills, but after about 2 years you want to start putting up a good showing and being competetive.

so I had to start over with a new motor and building to a particular set of rules.

my new car is the same thing.
I had to carefully pick my rules and build an entire car only to those rules...

I'm going over board.
you can always unbolt fiberglass.
I just recommend reading the rules to everyone, because once you have 4K into your body and paint, it won't be too fun to have to put on your old hoods in order to jump down a class.

I think Joe just learned this lesson in the last 12 months too.

the best financial advice I can give regarding cars and learning about track driving, is to keep the car in a "stock" class for at least 2 years. Focus all of your time and money on the safety equiptment and driving skill. Don't do anything that will bump you out of the class that car will fall into as it is. Your skills will grow AMAZINGLY as a beginner because your on the steep end of the bell curve. you'd be surprised how much difference the driver can make.

then after a couple of years experience you will know what you want to do with the car and what all of the rules do or don't allow.

at that point you can invest your money once (instead of twice) or even sell the car for NO loss and buy one that is already in a class you want.

focus on things that are legal. suspension things, and modifications that don't make the car unuseable.

brant

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Feb 28 2006, 09:27 AM)

So Grant, what do you figure you got your car down to now?

Its a lost cause now since I'm putting a boat anchor 2.4 six and a cage in the car. Will let you know once I'm finnished with the car. I was hoping to keep the car under 1850 lbs.

QUOTE (ChrisNPDrider @ Feb 28 2006, 10:54 AM)

I'm doing a lot of this weight reduction too - maximize fun out of my 1.7 Brett - 10 lb wheels!?! Most posts I've seen about 4 lug Fuchs have them at 11-12 lbs each. What wheels available are lighter than Fuchs? Some car photos I've seen have shiny aluminum kinda like Centerlines but with holes in them...are those what you are referring to. My goal is to go 4-lug aluminum hubs, loose the brake dust shields, vented rotors (maybe), and super light rims. You can shave 4 lbs off by going to the high-torque mini-starter! Why hasn't anybody mentioned leaving the spare tire at home and calling AAA instead? There's 20lbs off!  ;)

My custom made 15x8" Keizer wheels are 9.85 lbs and cost $250 each. ...but they are for track/ax only.

Possible solution to the spare tire weight: Leave the spare home get a tire plug kit and a lightweight inflator.

what are some good, light, and steetable 4 and 5 bolt wheels. one member mentioned pansport.

Grant,

whats your current weight?

I REALLY want to know your weight once you get done with the conversion...

Its REALLY... REALLY.. REALLY... hard to get a street legal -6 below 2000lbs.

the -6 weight comes up on the club frequently and there are about 15 street legal cars that can't get under 2050lbs.

six's commonly weigh 200lbs more than -4's

and 8's weight commonly 450 more than 4's.

I would assume a 10 would weigh 650-700 more?


sorry... couldnt help myself..

QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 28 2006, 01:55 PM)

what are some good, light, and steetable 4 and 5 bolt wheels. one member mentioned pansport.

Panasports come in 2 flavors, street and race...normally the "race" versions weigh a few pounds less and are not recommended for street use........

for cost effective 5 lug rims, you cannot beat the Fuchs....sure you can get custom rims, but double or triple your rim budget....

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 28 2006, 02:15 PM)

for cost effective 5 lug rims, you cannot beat the Fuchs....sure you can get custom rims, but double or triple your rim budget....

I thought the cookie cutters were the cost effective light wheels?

at almost free... there just a pound or so more than the fuch's...

anyone know what these wheels weigh and why pelican parts say they are not suppose to be used for auto x.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...ypes/polriv.jpg

Riviera's. pretty heavy, there mag wheels..

They can be used for autox, Its the vw offset wheels you shouldnt use (actually, the one's pictured are vw offset) because it limits your tire size to 165 on stock fenders.. The 914 offset rivs are perfectly fine, never seen em break... You can find em for low prices.. People give em away.. lol

Andrew

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Feb 28 2006, 01:28 PM)

Riviera's. pretty heavy, there mag wheels.. They can be used for autox, Its the vw offset wheels you shouldnt use (actually, the one's pictured are vw offset) because it limits your tire size to 165 on stock fenders.. The 914 offset rivs are perfectly fine, never seen em break... You can find em for low prices.. People give em away.. lol Andrew

how much more do the rivieras weigh then the cookie cutters.

QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 28 2006, 02:23 PM)

anyone know what these wheels weigh and why pelican parts say they are not suppose to be used for auto x. http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/9...ypes/polriv.jpg

cheap cast heavy VW bug wheels.....

guesstimate time:

starting point: 1975 914 1.8 all stock

weight reductions:

complete fiberglass 916 kit (flares, front and rear bumpers)
fiberglass hood and trunk
heating system and controls taken out
stock exhust replaced with headers
spare tire taken out and replaced with tire flat seal and disposable air canister

what do you think i will weigh in at:

Here's some links to my weight loss project on my 914-6. The car is track only, so you can't do all of it if you are running a street legal car, but it may give you some ideas. In some of the threads I mention the weight difference of each piece I replaced.

People are giving you great advice on watching out for rules and how you go about building your car. The car in the links was built to PCA regional Time Trial specs. After 2 years of competing, the rules changed somewhat, so sometimes it doesn't matter what you do.

If you decide to track the car with private "fun" clubs, they will normally not care what your car weighs.

As far as wheels, I had 4 sets of 944 Fuchs that I purchased from the local wrecker and swap meets for $50 each. They were 15x7's and I ran cantilever slicks on them.

Here's the links. Hopefully there are a few ideas that may be of interest.

Project Jenny Craig 1

Project Jenny Craig 2

Project Jenny Craig 3

Project Jenny Craig 4

Bill P.

QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 28 2006, 02:39 PM)

guesstimate time: starting point: 1975 914 1.8 all stock weight reductions: complete fiberglass 916 kit (flares, front and rear bumpers) fiberglass hood and trunk heating system and controls taken out stock exhust replaced with headers spare tire taken out and replaced with tire flat seal and disposable air canister what do you think i will weigh in at:

• flares, not much a reduction, possibly a pound per corner??
  
• bumpers, 55 per end?
  
• front hood, 15 pound savings
  
• rear lid, 15 pound savings
  
• heating delete, 35 pounds?
  
• header instead of heatexhangers, 35 pounds?
  

QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 28 2006, 02:31 PM)

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Feb 28 2006, 01:28 PM) Riviera's. pretty heavy, there mag wheels.. They can be used for autox, Its the vw offset wheels you shouldnt use (actually, the one's pictured are vw offset) because it limits your tire size to 165 on stock fenders.. The 914 offset rivs are perfectly fine, never seen em break... You can find em for low prices.. People give em away.. lol Andrew how much more do the rivieras weigh then the cookie cutters.

Two different ball games..
Riviera's... 4 lug. (which Im assuming your going with 4 lug)

Cookie cutters... 5 lug..
5 lug will add weight, and stopping power, and wheel options.


You want light 4 lugs? Centerlines, Mahles, fuchs, whatever grants running, and Revolutions.. Im sure I spelled everything in there wrong.

Andrew

Probably 2050lbs or thereabouts, tank empty.

If you're serious about a lightweight car, you'd sell the '75 and buy a '70-'71, and you'd be starting with a car that's already under 2000lbs to start with. By the time you made your proposed mods, you'd be between 1800-1900lbs. If you did everything mentioned here, you can get down to 1750lbs or so. If you're looking to do an engine swap, too, you could find an inexpensive roller and save yourself the trouble of getting rid of an engine you won't need.

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Feb 28 2006, 02:18 PM)

Probably 2050lbs or thereabouts, tank empty. If you're serious about a lightweight car, you'd sell the '75 and buy a '70-'71, and you'd be starting with a car that's already under 2000lbs to start with. By the time you made your proposed mods, you'd be between 1800-1900lbs. If you did everything mentioned here, you can get down to 1750lbs or so. If you're looking to do an engine swap, too, you could find an inexpensive roller and save yourself the trouble of getting rid of an engine you won't need.

first of thanks for the info guys youre helping me out tons. as far as racing rules, i am building this car as a street car that will have some fun on the track days or on an auto x course and if im auto xing it doesnt matter what my class is to me cause im not looking to have the best time only to be out and having a good time and keeping the racing off the street. all this weight reduction started when i decided to stay with an aircooled engine probably a big four. (wish i could do a proper six but just dont have those funds for my engine budget.) and i saw a replica spyder and researched it. those cars all laying down fast time on 120 hp. i realize they weigh between 1300-1500lbs and i willnever get my 914 that light but hey i can cut some weight where i can. less weight more speed.

why are the 70-72 cars so much lighter. i heard about the doors and window crank systems being different. i know they run an tail shift trans, they dont have adjustable passenger seat. no catalytic converter but what else.

QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 28 2006, 03:37 PM)

why are the 70-72 cars so much lighter. i heard about the doors and window crank systems being different. i know they run an tail shift trans, they dont have adjustable passenger seat. no catalytic converter but what else.

don't you read the posts to your own thread???

the bumpers and doors make a huge differance........

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 28 2006, 02:51 PM)

QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 28 2006, 03:37 PM) why are the 70-72 cars so much lighter. i heard about the doors and window crank systems being different. i know they run an tail shift trans, they dont have adjustable passenger seat. no catalytic converter but what else. don't you read the posts to your own thread??? the bumpers and doors make a huge differance........

yes i do read them..... i knew the doors thats why i mentioned thim in my quote you posted. two the bumpers were my mistake i did not mention them. what i dont understand is if im using a 916 fiberglass kit why the bumpers would matter on either car.

the rust on your car (as mentioned in your post 3 pages back) is taking care of the weight loss as you type.

k

QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Feb 28 2006, 03:07 PM)

the rust on your car (as mentioned in your post 3 pages back) is taking care of the weight loss as you type. k

lol.....so sad....but so true

QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 28 2006, 04:00 PM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Feb 28 2006, 02:51 PM) QUOTE (ModPR3 @ Feb 28 2006, 03:37 PM) why are the 70-72 cars so much lighter. i heard about the doors and window crank systems being different. i know they run an tail shift trans, they dont have adjustable passenger seat. no catalytic converter but what else. don't you read the posts to your own thread??? the bumpers and doors make a huge differance........ yes i do read them..... i knew the doors thats why i mentioned thim in my quote you posted. two the bumpers were my mistake i did not mention them. what i dont understand is if im using a 916 fiberglass kit why the bumpers would matter on either car.

the later cars have some extra structual material added that the early cars do not have...cutting and removing sheetmetal would have to be done to get the late chassis perfectly in line weight wise as the early chassis....


unless you are racing for money, don't sweat it.....even if it was 50lbs, you wouldn't notice it.....


adding those GT flares is going to add weight since they'll require more rubber to fill them up since it'll look kinda goofy with only 205 wide tires on 5.5" rims ....then depending on the rim, you'll need longer spacers and longer studs