Before I go out and buy my motor for my conversion, I want to be sure I'm getting what I want and I also need to learn some things so I know what I'm talking about.

First off, I'm not a real 'motor-head' and everything I've learned about 914's I've just picked up as I've gone along. This forum has been an awesome resource so far. Now that I'm getting ready to buy my motor, I need to get educated on Chevy small-blocks. I realise that this forum isn't the best place for this discussion, but if one of you more experienced and knowledgable members could push me in the right direction, I would really appreciate it. What I am looking for are websites or forums that can provide me with general knowledge about SBC's and what performance up-grades are available.

My initial research has me leaning towards a 305 because it's torque characteristics seem to match up best with the 901 tranny. I'm not looking for a super powerful engine, just something in the 225hp (or higher) range that revs high enough to match up well with the 901's stock gearing. I would also like to keep the low-end torque relatively low to help perserve the tranny. I would also like to learn something about aluminum heads, different cams, fuel injection, and other mods that can be done to small-block Chevy's.

And before all you Suby guys chime in here, I already have the adapter plate, starter, and engine mounts for a Chev conversion so I probably won't turn back.

OK, I'd suggest going to your local library & checking out some light reading material by HP Books or SA designs... things with titles like High Performance SBC, How to Hot rod yor SBC, Power Secrets, Rebuild your SBC, Modify your SBC... things like that. They'll all be grouped together in the automotive section at your library. The reason I'd recomend them to you, is they'll all give you a little more in depth analysis of the different bore/stroke combonations & their power charactoristics.

From your post I'd say asking for suggestions/wanting to learn, is a good idea IMO (no offense intended). But the 305 was always intended as a hi TQ engine (small bore, long stroke) compared to a 283, 302, 327 & even the 350 (on a ci/tq basis). The idea behind it's advent was to create the TQ needed to move the mass without having to feed the displacement of a 350. I know people use 305's, but really TQ is what's going to blow your 901 apart & on a CI basis, the 305 out performs a 350 in this area (in stk trim) Really the "ideal" would be a large bore, short stroke engine, but those are pretty darn hard to find in a junk yard anymore.

Web reference?
Try Chevy High Performance
Super Chevy
Popular Hot Rodding
& GM High Tech Performance

read all the tech articles - BUT go to your library!

QUOTE (Pistachio @ Mar 22 2006, 10:32 AM)

Really the "ideal" would be a large bore, short stroke engine, but those are pretty darn hard to find in a junk yard anymore.

400 SBC

Dam get a k20

QUOTE (SLITS @ Mar 22 2006, 09:35 AM)

QUOTE (Pistachio @ Mar 22 2006, 10:32 AM) Really the "ideal" would be a large bore, short stroke engine, but those are pretty darn hard to find in a junk yard anymore. 400 SBC

lol... naw. Short Stroke I said!

IMO the "ultimate" SBC for a teener (if we can ignore the LSx's) would be a 4 bolt 400 block (4.125" bore) with a 3" crank & 6.250" rods. That's give you about 331 CI of short stroke displacement with an effieciant ring package and a rod ratio of 2.08.

That'd be a rev luv'in shortblock with good mid range TQ production. Run flattop pistons with a 58cc chamber & you could easily run pump gas. Cap it off with some 185cc AFR or 200cc Darts and the right cam & .... Woo HOO! lol...

350 destroked.

Thats my trick... I dont know much either, but im going to get the shortest stroke crank I can get in there.. do my valvetrain full roller, and rev to 8

are you going to stick with the stock 5 speed or get a modified wide ratio 4sp 901.

making a peaky SBC would be the best like andy suggests. 302's are rare and 327's are getting there. 350's are a dime a dozen.

for driveability, my philosophy is go for the modified 4speed with the higher 5th for lower RPM's on the highway. then make the engine a mid to high rpm motor. no first gear (the weak link) so starting in second which is no problem for the 350.

350 replacement parts are relatively cheap unlike most alternatives.

all ya' got to watch out for is over torquing the transaxle. AKA popping the clutch with sticky tires.....

a skilled driver won't mind the peaky, high winding engine. my CSOB @$$ likes the broader torque band and i have two backup tranny's just in case. =-)

alright! anuther V8!

You're biggest problem will be keeping the thing from making TQ and HP. With all the add ons you mentioned you'll have to restrict it in some way. You could get a 350 with low compression and heads that are too big for the motor so you're intake velocity and low end TQ will be low and your rpm band/ power will be up high.

QUOTE (Dr. Roger @ Mar 22 2006, 03:12 PM)

are you going to stick with the stock 5 speed or get a modified wide ratio 4sp 901. making a peaky SBC would be the best like andy suggests. 302's are rare and 327's are getting there. 350's are a dime a dozen. for driveability, my philosophy is go for the modified 4speed with the higher 5th for lower RPM's on the highway. then make the engine a mid to high rpm motor. no first gear (the weak link) so starting in second which is no problem for the 350. 350 replacement parts are relatively cheap unlike most alternatives. all ya' got to watch out for is over torquing the transaxle. AKA popping the clutch with sticky tires..... a skilled driver won't mind the peaky, high winding engine. my CSOB @$$ likes the broader torque band and i have two backup tranny's just in case. =-) alright! anuther V8!

Ideally, I'd like to stick with a stock 901 because I currently have three of them. However, I imagine most of my driving will be on the backroads and a taller 5th gear would probably be better. I understand Brad Mayeur has some 'H' gears, so I'll have to look into that as well.

try this one! Cool!

Doug -

I know where there is a 331 short block (327 .030 over) that is fresh for a $1000 US in MO. I passed on this motor and bought the 302 SBC
that the same guy had - (he had 4 or so motors that were fresh in his garage, and a Plymouth Superbird in garage #2)...

LMK if you want his contact info -

Thom

sorry bout the hi-jack..... but I was wondering why the ford 289/302 isn't used more in 914's. Don't get me wrong, i'm more of a chevy fan than ford, but it seems that ford small blocks would be a justifyable alternative.

QUOTE (charlesmac @ Mar 22 2006, 04:28 PM)

sorry bout the hi-jack..... but I was wondering why the ford 289/302 isn't used more in 914's.  Don't get me wrong, i'm more of a chevy fan than ford, but it seems that ford small blocks would be a justifyable alternative.

The typical train of thought is that the engine is a bit to long -

QUOTE (dakotaewing @ Mar 22 2006, 04:19 PM)

Doug - I know where there is a 331 short block (327 .030 over) that is fresh for a $1000 US in MO. I passed on this motor and bought the 302 SBC that the same guy had - (he had 4 or so motors that were fresh in his garage, and a Plymouth Superbird in garage #2)... LMK if you want his contact info - Thom

Thanks for the info. I'll keep it mind, but I'll probably end up shopping on this side of the border. Importing and cross-border transportation can be deal killers.

I'm surprised noone's using LS1's in these conversions. Lightweight all aluminum motor with 350hp.

I'm just finishing a LS1 conversion now and also have a running SBC350 914 car now. There is another member here with a running LS1 car.
I just finished building a short stroke 283 engine for a friends 914. Just as one was described at the first of the thread 12.5 cr forged pistons 58cc heads and a Rod Simpson II engle cam with Rhoads lifters. I would NEVER do this again. Cost twice as much to build as a flat top piston 350 with half the performance.

If I was interested in a lower horse-powered car. I think instead of a small cubic inch SBC I go with a Japanese V6 engine like a Nissan or Honda .

QUOTE (Pistachio @ Mar 22 2006, 10:02 AM)

QUOTE (SLITS @ Mar 22 2006, 09:35 AM) QUOTE (Pistachio @ Mar 22 2006, 10:32 AM) Really the "ideal" would be a large bore, short stroke engine, but those are pretty darn hard to find in a junk yard anymore. 400 SBC lol... naw. Short Stroke I said! IMO the "ultimate" SBC for a teener (if we can ignore the LSx's) would be a 4 bolt 400 block (4.125" bore) with a 3" crank & 6.250" rods. That's give you about 331 CI of short stroke displacement with an effieciant ring package and a rod ratio of 2.08. That'd be a rev luv'in shortblock with good mid range TQ production. Run flattop pistons with a 58cc chamber & you could easily run pump gas. Cap it off with some 185cc AFR or 200cc Darts and the right cam & .... Woo HOO! lol...

just grabbed one to quote - not "picking on" anyone in particular...

Pistachio, I would not recommend a 4-bolt 400 block - they crack through the mains webs right under the outside bolts. 350 4-bolts are fantastic, but 400s suck. I used a 400 2-bolt block and converted 2-3-4 main caps to splay mains to have a 4-bolt setup - that works very well. I have seen a fair amount of cracked 400 4-bolts back when I did engine machining and so forth. Just FYI, especially since they are rarer and you will pay extra $$ for something that is essentially not worth it. Put that money into converting to splayed mains.

Secondly, 3" stroke would be seriously short in a 400 block, but doable of course. Rod-to-stroke ratios do not have to be insane to spin. This is where Ford was superior to Chevy - Ford used a rough 1.7 R/S ratio in many of the small block designs where Chevy would go smaller. The best was the 289 Ford with a 1.86 R/S ratio. A 6.250 rod with a 3" stroke at 2.08 is really "long" and not worth it unless you want to head north of 9,000rpm. The 1.25" compression height on the piston is okay because there is virtually no rod angle. R/S ratios at 2+ is Indy car kinda stuff.

My favorite engine of all-time is the 289 Ford from a design standpoint. Gained real appreciation when I helped a guy with a stock but heat treated crank, stock rod (ARP bolts/polished/heat treating so not quite stock) 289 in a 68 Mustang. He would launch the car off the trans brake at 8000rpm with a 150shot of NO, shift at 8500, hit it with an additional 250HP stage, then end up out the back door at 9000rpm. Ran low 9s in that pig of a car. Spin all season long. We would change the bearings annually only because that much nitrous is a bit rough on them.

My normal long-winded self followed with this summary - if you want to build a great SBC big bore/short stroke combo, the most popular and best way to go is 400 block splayed, 327 crank (3.25" stroke large journal steels are hard to find), 6" rods, and the flattops are "off the shelf" from many places (Ross/SRP for instance) with a 1.375" compression height which makes for a great ring spacing as well. It is a 289 Ford in Chevy clothing (1.85 R/S ratio). 353 cubes at .030" over. I built that combo for a ton of local SouthWest tour guys a few years back and works great.

Almost all circle track cars were running this for a while. Now they use longer rods, and a little more stroke, but also have to live at 8500rpm "all day". Typical setup for that is 4.125" bore BowTie block, 6.250" rod, 3.34" stroke. Guess what - 1.87 R/S ratio. Hmmm... 1.85-1.87 R/S ratio for high rpm (in V8 terms 7-9K is high). 1.1" C/H is low but doable (347 Ford stoked 302s run this piston) and makes for a light piston.

Lastly be careful of running a lot of rod angle and thinking it will run pump gas. Dwell kills that quickly. The way to run pump gas is small bore, not big bore, and definitely not dwell. I am at 11.13:1 with flattops and just began to detonate on the dyno at 512HP, so had to switch to race gas to get 525HP. And I have a gnarly circle track tappet cam in it with 105 l/c and 6deg advance (99deg intake!) so I am bleeding off a ton of cylinder pressure and still had detonation. If I had a 2.08 R/S ratio at the compression, I would have detonated way earlier. Your combo would be about 10:1 so would probably make it, but gives up a lot of power with the lower compression.

Andrew - probably best bet for what imply is the 350 4-bolt block and the aforementioned 327 crank with 6" rods. The pistons are also off the shelf in various over-bores (as it is just a 327 piston). The big-bore 400 block helps to unshroud the valves a bit though

Of course, now there are Chinese cranks all over and offered in large journal with 3.25" stroke so the hard to find stock steel crank isn't such an issue. And they work great and are cheaper.

Riverman - in terms of using a 305 Chevy - run away, run away (bad Monty Python quote). Just not a good combo. Because you have limited "gear head" experience, the best bet for you would be to check into the Chevy crate motors. They have some nice 350 crate engines that would be a near "bolt-in" for you, meaning your lack of knowledge won't hurt you as quickly. I personally wouldn't use a crate engine because of my background, BUT GM Performance crate engines are perfect for the "average Joe" and reasonably priced when it is all said and done.

Lastly Bill (wberthgo) has an LS series engine in his 914 - can't recall if it is LS1 or 2 or 6. The new LS7 would be cool.

QUOTE (byndbad914 @ Mar 22 2006, 03:19 PM)

Andrew - probably best bet for what imply is the 350 4-bolt block and the aforementioned 327 crank with 6" rods.  The pistons are also off the shelf in various over-bores (as it is just a 327 piston).  The big-bore 400 block helps to unshroud the valves a bit though  ;)

If I follow this correctly this is a 327 with 6" rods right? That would mean a piston with a 1.375" compression height approximately. Yes?

350 block with a 327 crank = 327


Mike T

QUOTE (Mike T @ Mar 22 2006, 03:45 PM)

QUOTE (byndbad914 @ Mar 22 2006, 03:19 PM) Andrew - probably best bet for what imply is the 350 4-bolt block and the aforementioned 327 crank with 6" rods.  The pistons are also off the shelf in various over-bores (as it is just a 327 piston).  The big-bore 400 block helps to unshroud the valves a bit though  ;) If I follow this correctly this is a 327 with 6" rods right? That would mean a piston with a 1.375" compression height approximately. Yes? 350 block with a 327 crank = 327 Mike T

Yep - it is a 327 with a great R/S ratio, with the added benefit of a 4-bolt block from the 350. 1.375" C/H - deck the block to 9" exact and you are perfect. Set of AFR heads (or Canfields) and can make a great combo for Andrew. Put a hyd roller for longevity in a streeter and it would be money. Of course, want to beat it a bit, solid tappet would be cool and lopey. Scary to break-in though! Chevies absolutely suck ass when it comes to keeping the lobes on the cams

I am still not sold on the solid roller on the street - I have seen them go about 10,000 miles and drop a roller (shortest spell was about 7,000 for a friend of mine - wiped the whole motor out), but that is not my idea of longevity. the lower spring pressure grinds I have heard can get about 20K miles, but I will believe it when I see it.

QUOTE (BIGKAT_83 @ Mar 22 2006, 03:03 PM)

I'm just finishing a LS1 conversion now and also have a running SBC350 914 car now. There is another member here with a running LS1 car. I just finished building a short stroke 283 engine for a friends 914. Just as one was described at the first of the thread 12.5 cr forged pistons 58cc heads and a Rod Simpson II engle cam with Rhoads lifters. I would NEVER do this again. Cost twice as much to build as a flat top piston 350 with half the performance. If I was interested in a lower horse-powered car. I think instead of a small cubic inch SBC I go with a Japanese V6 engine like a Nissan or Honda .

Any pics of the LS1 conversion?

A combination I've been thinking about is a post 1986 350 block and the crank and rods from a mid 1990's Caprice L99 4.3 V8. This is a 3.00" stroke crank and from what I've read will go into the Gen 1 block. The rods are 5.94" long and that will allow pistons with the 350 compression height to be used instead of the expensive DZ style 4.00 bore x 3.00 stroke pistons. A 302 cu in engine using late model parts.

Haven't actually tried it yet and I suppose it would need to be balanced.

On Topic content: this would fit the low torque/ High revving criteria desired by the originator of the thread...

Mike T

Just to throw something different into the mix:

4.8L (293cu in) LR4 Chevy truck motor (gen III series, same as the LS1). 285HP/295lb-ft, modern EFI, and can be had for less than $1000 with under 30K miles all day long (do a search, and you'll see what I mean). To fit a 914, you need to swap out the tall truck intake for an LS1, and the deeper oil pan also for an LS1 (all parts interchange, except the block is cast iron but weights only 63lbs more than the LS1). I beleive it to be a real good match for the 901 trans. You can go one more step up to the 5.3L LM7 @ 295HP/310lb-ft, but it's a long stroke motor (same crank as the LS1). Kennedy makes the adapters. You'll need to fool with the harness and PCM, but there's lot's of info on the net.

Andys

The Cap'n stopped by Alan Johnson Performance yesterday. Might have seen just what you need! A whole row of neatly stacked, shiny new, aluminum Rodeck blocks. Most impressive! Keep your teener light! Add a couple of Alan Johnson aluminum heads, a manifold, a big'ol blower, and whatnot. Bring your guy from the bank (and it better be a BIG bank!) The Cap'n

Here's a shot of the 500HP LS6 I have in my car. This took alot of work and necessitated cutting a hole in the firewall and making a custom FG cover.

Bill

pic

Not to hijack this thread, but I would be interested in Bigkats and byndbad914's thoughts on my motor combo...The thing that concerns me is my choice of heads, and my concern of going with a smaller cc head and not having enough room for valve lift. The cam I am considering is a 234/228 duration @ .050 , duration, deg 298/290, lobe seperation 115.5, and net valve lift .514/.514. Heads are chevy 441 open chamber 76cc. I had a tough time figuring exactly what my compression is due to I cant find the exact spec's on the TRW 2210 pistons -

Based on the above cam and heads w/a compression ratio of 10.6, this combo desktop dyno'd at 364 ft.tq. @ 4600 rpms, and 348HP @ 5400rpm's...

Am I anywhere close ???

cheap gm crate engine with warenty. right out of gm preformance cataloge.

12499529 HP 290 V8 Crate Engine
The HP 290/350 is GM Performance Parts' value leading crate engine, with 290 horsepower @ 5100 RPM, and 326 lb-ft of torque @ 3750 RPM on 87 octane fuel. The HP 290 horsepower will provide great long term durability with its 4-bolt mains, PM steel rods, strong cast aluminum pistons. The camshaft has .450" intake and .460" exhaust lift with hydraulic flat tappets. The cast iron cylinder heads have 1.94" intake and 1.50" exhaust valves with 76 cc combustion chamber. The heads have the conventional 12 bolt intake manifold attaching design used from 1955 through late 1980. This engine was designed to work with the following components: intake manifold 10185063, HEI distributor 93440806, balancer 6272221, flex plate 471529,you will also need a small block starter, water pump and fuel pump. This 350 engine is not intended for marine use, and should be used in 1979 or earlier pre-emissions street vehicles or any off road usage.

If you guys are gona build an engine... Build it to rev!!!

I retard the @#$# out of my engine down low, so that it feels really peeky!! There is a reason that the turbo cars and modern day sports cars feel so quick.. the acceleration curve is crazy! (I consider the acceleration curve almost identicle to the tq curve... little bit of calculous..)

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Mar 23 2006, 12:11 AM)

If you guys are gona build an engine... Build it to rev!!! I retard the @#$# out of my engine down low, so that it feels really peeky!! There is a reason that the turbo cars and modern day sports cars feel so quick.. the acceleration curve is crazy! (I consider the acceleration curve almost identicle to the tq curve... little bit of calculous..)

Maybe that's why your engine is running hot running at low to mid RPM's....

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Mar 23 2006, 12:11 AM)

If you guys are gona build an engine... Build it to rev!!! I retard the @#$# out of my engine down low, so that it feels really peeky!! There is a reason that the turbo cars and modern day sports cars feel so quick.. the acceleration curve is crazy! (I consider the acceleration curve almost identicle to the tq curve... little bit of calculous..)

are you retarding the timing? if so you can really be hurting your engine. retarded timing increases temps at idle and will increase exhaust temps, this can hurt the exhaust valve and seat.
if you want to move your torque curve you can do that with a timing gear that is adjustable.[eccentric spacers on the dowel or crank gear that is keyed in different locations].
cam shaft selection is going be the great factor on your torque curve, not the initial timing, or full advance. it will affect power if not optamized because it will be set up inefficient and run poorly in emisions and fuel economy.

well put troy. =-)

as for my pondering the perfect engine for riverman,
there are a few other things to consider....

a healthy 350 914 IS a handful to drive. i'm running a .030 over, 290/290 degreed/ 1/2"+ lift roller rockered, ported/milled 1.94 intake heads, 750cfm elelbrock carbd', headered engine.

it's just a handful to drive. just the smallest tap on the throttle and you better be ready to GO. in any gear at any RPM. mine started to get civilized at 75 on the freeway. around town i really have to play the gas/clutch with great consideration.

if i had to do it all over again id either go the high-winding 327 with the 901 trans much less money) or the LS6 with a 930 trans (much more money).

Actually I have the timing advanced... I moved my dizzy more counter clockwise and it got rid of some of the low end tq and increased the high end hp.

I never said my car overheats at low end...

On the freeway at 3200rpm's for an hour is where it goes over 210... doesnt get much higher than that though.

Andrew

andy, just read your last post.
[QUOTE]I retard the @#$# out of my engine down low, so that it feels really peeky!! . [QUOTE]

ya, put my foot in my mouth..

I was just trying to say that if your going to build an engine, build it to rev so it feels faster, if anything...

ya.. I kinda worded it wrong.. lol

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Mar 22 2006, 11:41 AM)

350 destroked. Thats my trick... I dont know much either, but im going to get the shortest stroke crank I can get in there.. do my valvetrain full roller, and rev to 8

Thats what I'm doing.

I am building a Chevy 302 right now to replace my current 305. 4.001 bore with a 3 in stroke. It should rev freely.

The big performance problem with the 305 is the lack of heads. the only way to but some heads with any decent valves is to use vortech heads.

Don't get me wrong, the 305 has been a very effective engine. I spent $300 on it and it gives me 265HP.

Its a great way to get a cheap engine that's not too bad.

Mark

QUOTE (messix @ Mar 22 2006, 11:36 PM)

QUOTE (Andyrew @ Mar 23 2006, 12:11 AM) If you guys are gona build an engine... Build it to rev!!! I retard the @#$# out of my engine down low, so that it feels really peeky!! There is a reason that the turbo cars and modern day sports cars feel so quick.. the acceleration curve is crazy! (I consider the acceleration curve almost identicle to the tq curve... little bit of calculous..) are you retarding the timing? if so you can really be hurting your engine. retarded timing increases temps at idle and will increase exhaust temps, this can hurt the exhaust valve and seat. if you want to move your torque curve you can do that with a timing gear that is adjustable.[eccentric spacers on the dowel or crank gear that is keyed in different locations]. cam shaft selection is going be the great factor on your torque curve, not the initial timing, or full advance. it will affect power if not optamized because it will be set up inefficient and run poorly in emisions and fuel economy.

I agree that the cam is the brain of the engine. Sometimes I use marine cams with a flatter power curve in lighter cars.

Mark

Mine is a 327 .30 over. Iskendarian cam with torque curve that comes on after 2500 rpm, stock .461 double hump heads. Original 327 crank new everything else. Build your own motor, it's not that hard and you will have a much better understanding of the motors inner workings. I think an SBC build is easier than a Type IV build. Keep it clean, clean clean!!!

I bought a couple of books on SBC builds and went to town. I think one is by Varnard or something like that. Find a reputable local machine shop. Spend some time in the shop, see how they work. My local shop is owned and operated by two old guys that have had the shop fo 20 some years. They are good and cheap. I bought all my parts thru them also, I told them what I wanted the motor to do and they told me what to buy. One of them is doing a V8 Fiero swap. They also do great VW work.

Take your time.

QUOTE (wbergtho @ Mar 22 2006, 08:15 PM)

Here's a shot of the 500HP LS6 I have in my car. This took alot of work and necessitated cutting a hole in the firewall and making a custom FG cover. Bill

I can't imagine driving a 914 with 500hp.

Lots of food for thought here.

Maybe a 350 (due to availability/compatability) built to rev with a cam designed to move the power/torque band to the upper range would be the ticket. I'll probably do aluminum heads to keep the weight down. Still have a lot of learnin' to do though.

I saw a chart once that had 901 gear ratios and shift points on it. Aybody know where I can find it?

QUOTE (riverman @ Mar 23 2006, 07:03 AM)

Lots of food for thought here. Maybe a 350 (due to availability/compatability) built to rev with a cam designed to move the power/torque band to the upper range would be the ticket. I'll probably do aluminum heads to keep the weight down. Still have a lot of learnin' to do though. I saw a chart once that had 901 gear ratios and shift points on it. Aybody know where I can find it?

I think thats my chart with the tall gears
Mark

Thats what I run in my car

I love this post! Here's a pic I posted in the same post as Mark's pic. Same idea. I love my 283. Plenty fast when I want it to be, putts around town nice, and not a handful or scary for me. Not the greatest on gas though; 16-18 mpg (stock gearing). I really need to tune it on a dyno or with an air/fuel meter. I could go on and on about my thoughts on which engine, rpm range, tranny, etc., but it's all here anyways. If you've got bucks, go 930 box with many aluminum FI cubes.
Ed

QUOTE (riverman @ Mar 23 2006, 07:03 AM)

Lots of food for thought here. Maybe a 350 (due to availability/compatability) built to rev with a cam designed to move the power/torque band to the upper range would be the ticket.  I'll probably do aluminum heads to keep the weight down.  Still have a lot of learnin' to do though. I saw a chart once that had 901 gear ratios and shift points on it.  Aybody know where I can find it?

riverman
messix did the legwork for us - I was going to look up this crate engine and send you the info.

12499529 HP 290 V8 Crate Engine
The HP 290/350 is GM Performance Parts' value leading crate engine, with 290 horsepower @ 5100 RPM, and 326 lb-ft of torque @ 3750 RPM on 87 octane fuel.

All the talk of high rpm, no torque stuff is great and all, but for a good driver, with a simple but great engine combo for the street and even some A/X and DEs, that crate engine is it! Trust me, 290HP in that car will feel like a rocket compared to a lot of other cars you have driven (most likely). Roughly 8lbs/HP weight to power ratio is a pretty sweet street car! And the torque will sling the car outta the whole without being so high it wants to break everything. Probably could run an upgraded 901 behind it all day every day and have no issues (do some research, 901s with billet intermediate plates and so forth are pretty strong).

Remember, I have a 353 cube (not 383) motor that is high strung - 5000-7300rpm power band. Makes more HP than torque, but torque is still 438 lb-ft!

Oh yeah - Jack Daniels - 500HP 914s are pretty unreal to drive. Sport bike acceleration. My car was 2305lbs and 525HP - that is 4.4lb/HP! If the car were to really hook, in theory first gear with 25" tires is good for about 60mph at 7300rpm, so it would be one gear, 0-60, in roughly 2.9-3.2 seconds.

I found an engine shop yesterday run by these three old-timers. I ended up having an in-depth conversation with all three of them about the project. After some intitial bewilderment (You're doin' what?) they all got totally stoked on the whole concept. Their opinion is that a slightly modified 327 would best serve my puposes. The three of them said that they would put their minds to it and I am going to to a little more leg work and then we're going to sit down and talk it all through.

Get a 327 small journal block, and a 283 crank (I believe they're all forged), and you've got your 302. Decent heads, cam, valvetrain, etc. It'll run real nice.

Andy

QUOTE (riverman @ Mar 24 2006, 05:38 AM)

I found an engine shop yesterday run by these three old-timers. I ended up having an in-depth conversation with all three of them about the project. After some intitial bewilderment (You're doin' what?) they all got totally stoked on the whole concept. Their opinion is that a slightly modified 327 would best serve my puposes. The three of them said that they would put their minds to it and I am going to to a little more leg work and then we're going to sit down and talk it all through.

IMHO, 327 is a pretty good answer (check my sig). A decently prepped large journal 302 will cost as much as the 930 trans swap that you should have to run that engine.

I've been running an RH tall 901 behind my 327 with no problems. It used to be scary, now I could use some more power, just for fun.
Eric

QUOTE (ewdysar @ Mar 24 2006, 09:57 AM)

QUOTE (riverman @ Mar 24 2006, 05:38 AM) I found an engine shop yesterday run by these three old-timers.  I ended up having an in-depth conversation with all three of them about the project.  After some intitial bewilderment (You're doin' what?) they all got totally stoked on the whole concept.  Their opinion is that a slightly modified 327 would best serve my puposes.  The three of them  said that they would put their minds to it and I am going to to a little more leg work and then we're going to sit down and talk it all through. IMHO, 327 is a pretty good answer (check my sig). Eric

yeah - what he said. If you are really hell-bent on having an engine built instead of going the easy route, I highly recommend this combo for a streetable/fun AX/DE car (should be great HP) - cheap and good (hey, cheap is a good thing!)

Later model hyd roller 350 2-bolt block (already designed for a hyd roller is why). Have them refresh it and deck/square the block to 9.00" exact.
Add ARP studs to the mains.
3.25" stroke cast steel Chinese crank (I have built the forged Chinese stuff in a 347cube Ford that ran in the upper 8s in a 10" tire class when that stuff first hit the market, so don't knock it - the cast stuff is pretty strong too, plenty strong for 350-400HP)
6" Chinese H-beam rods - cheap, and then have the machine shop resize the big end to better match whatever the crank journals are.
flattop off-the-shelf SRP pistons - what I have in mine, nice price and solid design. 1.375" compression height.
AFR 195cc CNC heads (the 280+cfm intake set) bare (don't get them assembled as the components are crap, but the heads are priced great). Use a decent quality intake/exh valve (REV/SSI are reasonable price v. quality and some more expensive valves aren't better and can flow worse in fact). Add a good dual spring (rates will have to be set to match the cam choice in the end) and titanium retainers are cheap enough to be worthwhile. Typical hyd street roller (the 230deg cam I will mention shortly) you want about 120lbs on the seat and 320-ish lbs at max lift.

To keep short valve covers in the car (for firewall clearance), there are some cheap shaft mount rocker sets out there for these heads - Jesel has them, but Probe is cheaper and plenty strong for this application! No need for tall poly-locks or stud girdles. I have Probes on my race engine (though the Canfield heads arbitrarily increased the price 40% to my dismay due to the intake valve offset). They aren't as cheap as roller rockers, and are overkill, but they're bitchin nonetheless. Low profile though and don't go out of adjustment as often as poly-locks without a girdle.

Hyd roller cam grind will depend on what you really want to do with the car frankly. Lift need not go over .550" as the heads won't benefit from it. Duration around 230 @ .050" is a nice streetable grind that will bump a bit but feel good on a track day. I assume carbed, so a 108 l/c with 4deg advance. If fuel injected, maybe a 112 l/c with 4deg advance. If you like bump, 236 to 240 at .050" will do the trick, but hurt the bottom end at the higher side of that range.

For reference, I have a tappet cam 256/264 at .050" on a 105 l/c with 6deg advance = super lopey, idles around 1100rpm, sluggish below 4500rpm, but comes unglued at that rpm all the way to 7500. I had a 302 cube SBF with a 225/235 int/exh hyd cam and it bumped really nice and came alive around 3500rpm and shifted at 6500. A few more cubes to 327, probably work great above 3200rpm without totally ruining the bottom. And the car is so damn light, you won't even notice the "sluggishness" I saw with a 3300lb Mustang fastback!

Dual plane with a slight rise would be nice if it will fit under the lid. otherwise, a simple dual plane Edelbrock mani won't hurt the power, but stick to the smaller duration cam.

650 speed demon with mechanical secondaries - don't futz with that vacuum secondary crap. All the BS rumors you will hear about why vac is better is all horsesh!t - and the outta the box Demon stuff nearly bolts right on. In fact, my Mighty Demon was ordered, I gave them my engine and cam specs, and outta the box in the end is the best setting. Made more power at sea-level with larger jets on the dyno, but I am going back to their settings as at Willow, that puppy is rich.

That combo will last forever, be more car than you have ever driven, and simple to work with and tune.

My .02. You don't want to buy the stuff stateside or I would hook you up with a great place to buy all those parts for good pricing in Anaheim, CA. If you think you might (just get the block locally), all those parts are available from Pacific Performance Products. Ask for Troy - tell him Tim with the V8 914 sent you and rattle off the combo to him. He will get you set up right. 714-773-4176 (or 714-773-4177) If you can't find a block, he will probably have one of those too, or talk you into a 4-bolt block converted to hyd roller

QUOTE (charlesmac @ Mar 22 2006, 02:28 PM)

sorry bout the hi-jack..... but I was wondering why the ford 289/302 isn't used more in 914's. Don't get me wrong, i'm more of a chevy fan than ford, but it seems that ford small blocks would be a justifyable alternative.

no kits available...90% of the people doing conversions "need" a kit....it just happened to be that the 1st conversion company used a Chevy and others jumped on the bandwagon

end of hyjack

hard to beat those prices of the Chevy crate motors.....almost "any" V8 will be fun in a 914...my 1st conversion car I test drove had a 2-barrel carbed smog V8 from a station wagon....had a silly grin for hours after driving it

QUOTE (byndbad914 @ Mar 24 2006, 05:52 PM)

QUOTE (ewdysar @ Mar 24 2006, 09:57 AM) QUOTE (riverman @ Mar 24 2006, 05:38 AM) I found an engine shop yesterday run by these three old-timers.  I ended up having an in-depth conversation with all three of them about the project.  After some intitial bewilderment (You're doin' what?) they all got totally stoked on the whole concept.  Their opinion is that a slightly modified 327 would best serve my puposes.  The three of them  said that they would put their minds to it and I am going to to a little more leg work and then we're going to sit down and talk it all through. IMHO, 327 is a pretty good answer (check my sig). Eric yeah - what he said. If you are really hell-bent on having an engine built instead of going the easy route, I highly recommend this combo for a streetable/fun AX/DE car (should be great HP) - cheap and good (hey, cheap is a good thing!) Later model hyd roller 350 2-bolt block (already designed for a hyd roller is why). Have them refresh it and deck/square the block to 9.00" exact. Add ARP studs to the mains. 3.25" stroke cast steel Chinese crank (I have built the forged Chinese stuff in a 347cube Ford that ran in the upper 8s in a 10" tire class when that stuff first hit the market, so don't knock it - the cast stuff is pretty strong too, plenty strong for 350-400HP) 6" Chinese H-beam rods - cheap, and then have the machine shop resize the big end to better match whatever the crank journals are. flattop off-the-shelf SRP pistons - what I have in mine, nice price and solid design. 1.375" compression height. AFR 195cc CNC heads (the 280+cfm intake set) bare (don't get them assembled as the components are crap, but the heads are priced great). Use a decent quality intake/exh valve (REV/SSI are reasonable price v. quality and some more expensive valves aren't better and can flow worse in fact). Add a good dual spring (rates will have to be set to match the cam choice in the end) and titanium retainers are cheap enough to be worthwhile. Typical hyd street roller (the 230deg cam I will mention shortly) you want about 120lbs on the seat and 320-ish lbs at max lift. To keep short valve covers in the car (for firewall clearance), there are some cheap shaft mount rocker sets out there for these heads - Jesel has them, but Probe is cheaper and plenty strong for this application! No need for tall poly-locks or stud girdles. I have Probes on my race engine (though the Canfield heads arbitrarily increased the price 40% to my dismay due to the intake valve offset). They aren't as cheap as roller rockers, and are overkill, but they're bitchin nonetheless. Low profile though and don't go out of adjustment as often as poly-locks without a girdle. Hyd roller cam grind will depend on what you really want to do with the car frankly. Lift need not go over .550" as the heads won't benefit from it. Duration around 230 @ .050" is a nice streetable grind that will bump a bit but feel good on a track day. I assume carbed, so a 108 l/c with 4deg advance. If fuel injected, maybe a 112 l/c with 4deg advance. If you like bump, 236 to 240 at .050" will do the trick, but hurt the bottom end at the higher side of that range. For reference, I have a tappet cam 256/264 at .050" on a 105 l/c with 6deg advance = super lopey, idles around 1100rpm, sluggish below 4500rpm, but comes unglued at that rpm all the way to 7500. I had a 302 cube SBF with a 225/235 int/exh hyd cam and it bumped really nice and came alive around 3500rpm and shifted at 6500. A few more cubes to 327, probably work great above 3200rpm without totally ruining the bottom. And the car is so damn light, you won't even notice the "sluggishness" I saw with a 3300lb Mustang fastback! Dual plane with a slight rise would be nice if it will fit under the lid. otherwise, a simple dual plane Edelbrock mani won't hurt the power, but stick to the smaller duration cam. 650 speed demon with mechanical secondaries - don't futz with that vacuum secondary crap. All the BS rumors you will hear about why vac is better is all horsesh!t - and the outta the box Demon stuff nearly bolts right on. In fact, my Mighty Demon was ordered, I gave them my engine and cam specs, and outta the box in the end is the best setting. Made more power at sea-level with larger jets on the dyno, but I am going back to their settings as at Willow, that puppy is rich. That combo will last forever, be more car than you have ever driven, and simple to work with and tune. My .02. You don't want to buy the stuff stateside or I would hook you up with a great place to buy all those parts for good pricing in Anaheim, CA. If you think you might (just get the block locally), all those parts are available from Pacific Performance Products. Ask for Troy - tell him Tim with the V8 914 sent you and rattle off the combo to him. He will get you set up right. 714-773-4176 (or 714-773-4177) If you can't find a block, he will probably have one of those too, or talk you into a 4-bolt block converted to hyd roller

whats the price tag on this combo?

i think the gm crate motor is less than $2k. i did a build based off one for a jeep friend about 10yr ago i got the motor for 1,200 at a local gm dealer. final runner with intake and all was about 1,700.

http://www.paceparts.com/index.asp?PageAct...TS&Category=132

check here less than 1,500. and warrenty

Chevy has a crate sbc 302? cool





Me and dad are looking for a crank for my 4 bolt main large journal.. 327 is the best we can find.. One 302 on ebay.. 69 z28 crank..

My uncle has hords of parts, and we'll see if he has anything... I'd like my engine to rev as much as possible. Dad thinks he might have a 307. I'd like to bore something that small... but we'll see what we can do. A turbo might be needed

Then I have no clue as far as heads and valves.. Cam I think will be fine. 2500-7500 is my cam profile (this is assuming I stick with my 350 block, heck I dont even know if the cams are interchangable... lol)
I'll keep my holley fuel injection, I can program the rev range to whatever I want, so thats fine and dandy.