i'm sitting here at the school, and there are all of these techs running around (my age) reading papres on how to add printers. makes me wonder why I never get the good jobs.....

b

It's all in how you present your self. I see the same thing every day. Just keep on keeping on, it will work out for you. The cream always rises. ansd the shit always settles out.

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 09:52 AM)

...makes me wonder why I never get the good jobs.....

maybe they go to people who can spell "ridiculous" ?

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Mar 28 2006, 10:05 AM)

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 09:52 AM) ...makes me wonder why I never get the good jobs..... maybe they go to people who can spell "ridiculous" ?

Nope. Can't be. They didn't hire me either and I thought that was redickulous.

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Mar 28 2006, 08:05 AM)

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 09:52 AM) ...makes me wonder why I never get the good jobs..... maybe they go to people who can spell "ridiculous" ?

hey its early. shouldnt there be some time where one can make spelling errors?

b

are you looking for a full time job or an internship - or something do do while you're at school??

Depending on what you want to do (and what you're studying) we might have some stuff - but we're in California - which is a bit of a daily drive from Kentucky....

I'm an IT guy, and I agree it is all how you present yourself. Being a Tech is usually more toward the entry level (but not always), so sometimes you get some squirrley people.

There's high turnover and its a thankless job. Very tough in many ways....

At least your techs are reading the manuals... My Techs just blindly FU_K it up and then go to lunch, leaving me to fix all their crap.

When you pay a person Minimum wage to fix printers and show people where the power strip ON button is, Don't expect much.

I'm a tech and I will never pretend to know everything. Bottom line is I get it done. If I have to google something or pull out instructions so be it.

Could be your attitude?!?! Certainly don't sound like a team player to me.

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 05:52 AM)

i'm sitting here at the school, and there are all of these techs running around (my age) reading papres on how to add printers. makes me wonder why I never get the good jobs..... b

Do you consider an IT Tech job at a school "good"? What is a papre? I agree with others here, an IT Tech reading a manual is a good sign, not a bad one.

hey britt,

i'd pass on the professional printer installer job (little $) and study for the DBA position.

then you get prestige, respect, and $$$. =-)

and that can be a tele-commute poistion.

Britt,
I have been in IT for over a decade. The entry level positions are thankless jobs. You get abused by the (L)users, and you are the gopher/whipping boy for the rest of the IT staff. But you have to start somewhere. I got my first IT job by already working at the company and hacking one of the servers. The IT manager figured it was better to keep me and put me in the IT department.

To get an IT job, you will have to start at the bottom, but from what I know about you from this site, you are smart and will move up fast. To do that, Dress nice, talk respectfully, and make sure you present yourself as someone who wants to learn, not as someone who knows it all already. You may know a lot about computers. But you don't have a resume covered in certifications and experience. IT managers are human, and we don't like some snot nosed kid with a half page resume that shows his job experience at Burger King telling us how we are doing everything wrong.


Bottom line, you are selling yourself to the IT manager. And considering your lack of verifiable experience, he is taking a chance on you. You have to stand out from the other applicants. And your computer skills are NOT going to sell it. All you have to sell is apperance and attitude. If either of those are bad, you will not get the job.

Good luck.

Let me know if I can help in any way.


Clay C. Perrine
Senior Network Administrator
-------------------------------------
JZ Corporate Services
A subsidiary of Jacuzzi Brands, Inc.
14801 Quorum Drive
Dallas, TX 75254

QUOTE (fiid @ Mar 28 2006, 08:51 AM)

are you looking for a full time job or an internship - or something do do while you're at school?? Depending on what you want to do (and what you're studying) we might have some stuff - but we're in California - which is a bit of a daily drive from Kentucky....

I've been commuting from California to Kentucky for 20 years.

Cheers, Elliot

QUOTE (Dr. Roger @ Mar 28 2006, 01:32 PM)

and that can be a tele-commute poistion.  :beer2:

And that, my friends, will end your career.

You have to ask yourself, does the job that you are going to do require your actual physical presence? If not, then it can be offshored.

The trouble is, in IT, all the jobs that require your physical presence are generally 'IT technician' jobs - pulling cable through walls, swapping out hard disks in PCs, etc. This is generally the lower paid end of the IT spectrum. There are exceptions, but the competition for those more highly-valued, highly-paid jobs increases with every position that is moved to Bangalore.

Every day, I see more and more project management, help desk, network admin, user admin and software development and support positions being moved to locations outside the US. The technology has evolved to a point where it is functional and cheap enough to implement for most organizations. As technologists, we shouldn't be surprised about this. It has been coming for a while.

In the company that I am working for, most of our CCIEs are no longer based in the US. This used to be a highly-valued and prized certification that clients desired. However, since there were so few of them for the longest time, the salaries of US-based CCIEs shot through the roof. They caused people to look elsewhere for a more cost-competitive solution. It turned out that college educated, knowledgeable, articulate, certified individals could be had outside the US for about 20% of the cost of domestic talent. Give them a high-speed line, VOIP and VPN access and you've provided the same service while contributing to the bottom line.

If you are going to go into the IT field, please realize that most of it will soon be treated as a commodity if it is not already.

My advice:
1. Find a job
2. Get some experience
3. Develop an exit strategy
4. Get out
5. Enjoy your second career

Sounds familiar. We have a professional copier/printer in my office and when it needs service, the tech comes in, looks at it, then calls "The Wizard" on a Blackberry to figure out how to fix it.

I thought the rule of thumb was that everyone gets promoted to their level of incompetency. Sorry.

It's even a good thing if you look at it on a big scale. You don't want all the f-ups actually doing things. You want them kissing ass, where they'll do the least harm.

QUOTE (ClayPerrine @ Mar 28 2006, 01:46 PM)

Britt, I have been in IT for over a decade. The entry level positions are thankless jobs. You get abused by the (L)users, and you are the gopher/whipping boy for the rest of the IT staff. But you have to start somewhere. I got my first IT job by already working at the company and hacking one of the servers. The IT manager figured it was better to keep me and put me in the IT department. To get an IT job, you will have to start at the bottom, but from what I know about you from this site, you are smart and will move up fast. To do that, Dress nice, talk respectfully, and make sure you present yourself as someone who wants to learn, not as someone who knows it all already. You may know a lot about computers. But you don't have a resume covered in certifications and experience. IT managers are human, and we don't like some snot nosed kid with a half page resume that shows his job experience at Burger King telling us how we are doing everything wrong. Bottom line, you are selling yourself to the IT manager. And considering your lack of verifiable experience, he is taking a chance on you. You have to stand out from the other applicants. And your computer skills are NOT going to sell it. All you have to sell is apperance and attitude. If either of those are bad, you will not get the job. Good luck. Let me know if I can help in any way. Clay C. Perrine Senior Network Administrator ------------------------------------- JZ Corporate Services A subsidiary of Jacuzzi Brands, Inc. 14801 Quorum Drive Dallas, TX 75254

I could not agree more with this thought process. I also have been in the field going on now 25 years. I started as a tech wheenie carting stacks of punch cards for the then humongous computer systems of the bygone era. I was also someones little coffee, food, etc gopher. The others used me as their foot stool. There are many facets in the IT world. I'm a Sr. mail and database administrator and take it from me, my area is the aggravating work that seems to never end and is loaded with chest squeezing stress. I suggest that you look into becoming a developer / programmer. As this is the gravy job in the IT arena IMHO.


The creme will raise to the top as one other post stated and you can be that creme IF....

1.\ You listen well, as you will never learn anything while you are talking.

2.\ Dress, act and be professional.

3.\ Refuse to take less than perfection from yourself in regards to your work.
As a good reputation is vastly more important than the money.

Good luck to you in your endeavors

I'm a network engineer - I tend to like it myself. I get to do the hardware configurations that I love, but I also go ahead and design the network, install the routers, switches, firewalls, etc.


If you don't want to get offshored, go with a small company (under 100 people).

I love being a one man IT shop, but at the same time when stuff doesn't work, it's hard to point the finger somewhere else

I am a Senior Software Engineer for a Medical Center, and have to deal with Client Services (tech) peeps on a weekly basis. The Senior guys are good, well spoken, presentable and FIX the issues.

The bad ones can be pretty ridiculous. There have been cases where a tech was working on a clinical machine, it flips past 5pm and they are like "well I'm out of here". Unreal.

They deserve to get abused when that happens, but in a lot of other cases people just take out their frustrations on these guys because THEY messed up the computer by downloading all kinds of crap, etc....

oh, and about your "reading the book", I just had to break out my exchange book to figure out how to recover deleted emails...

When you're expected to code the php website, setup the iptables firewall, and admin the mail servers, it's a bit hard to remember everything.

Hey Clay,

We have the same title!

Not that it means much these days.



I agree that as technology get better and better, we will continue to work ourselves out of our jobs.

My company included. =-(

I'm already looking for my next great endeavour (business opportunity)

Thanks guys. I just woke up, I saw this and i'll read it later...thanks for your replies though. I'll comment when i'm less.....spacey?

b

Ahhh, the life of a college student. I went from a night owl and barely waking up by 10am to now going to bed at 10pm and getting up at 5am


I too, am in IT. I work in Network Security for a Gubment contractor, so we deal with firewalls, intrustion detection, anti-virus, you name it. This is my 4th position since starting there. My first spot was on the Helpdesk, answering phones 8 hrs a day. I worked that position for 10 months, then moved up the ranks. In May, I will have been there for 3 years.

It's a fun position and a lot of work - things are always changing, so that keeps things exciting.

However, I am looking around for a job closer to home. I have had two interviews with two separate companies and they're still taking their time on a decision. Sitting on pins and needles.

Good luck and start interning. I work in Telecommunications (data, voice, and cable TV) for my college part-time. Hours were SUPER flexible as they knew you were a college student. It was a fun job and looks good on the resume.

Tom
Network Engineer, Information Security

I'll chime in too. In three days, on March 31st, I will have 9 years under my belt with my current employer. I work at a university in the IT department as the boss over the university network and servers. When I started at this place, my title was something like "Technical Specialist" and I was the help desk, PC repair guy, trainer, and network guy all rolled up in one. From there the IT department continued to grow and I became "Network Administrator", and a few years later I'm "Assistant Director" with a staff of system and network techies.

We hire (and fire) a lot of students to work for our department. The good ones are watched closely and developed as much as possible. Currently 2 of my full time staff originally worked for my department as students then were hired full time in helpdesk/PC technician roles, then I "stole" them to work in my group because they were good. Helpdesk positions are high turnover. You burn out fast. But it gives you a chance to be noticed. Management knows people don't last long in entry level IT jobs. We know you will move on, so if you are good we will try to keep you in the organization through promotions and/or lateral moves to see where you develop best.

Hmm, I just rambled a bunch. I think I'll take a nap.

I really enjoy technology, but I feel that if involved in technology in a daily basis will make me lose intrest in my personal projects involving technology and computers--my hobby or what-not.

But so far (after building countless computers and fixing school networks and such [ i did this in the 4th grade....yes I was 9 years old and fixing school computers, apples and localtalk networks]) I havent lost intrest in computers either professionally or on a personal level.

I don't really know much about Network Engineering, but it sounds intresting and sounds like something that I would be inclined to persue. I was also pondering about COmputer engineering, but I dont fully know what that entails. I guess I should get on the ball and choose something, and I feel like computers are down my alley....

I appreciate everyone's comments on the matter. Please keep them coming if you have anything to add. I've been accepted for several jobs at local banks and doing tech support for a local cable internet company, but the "training" sessions (snooze fest) are held during class time, which wouldn't work.


Thank you all very much,

b

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 05:10 PM)

I really enjoy technology, but I feel that if involved in technology in a daily basis will make me lose intrest in my personal projects involving technology and computers--my hobby or what-not.

IT gets old fast when you do it for a living and there's a gun to your head. Schedules, bosses, users, projects, paperwork, politics, etc... the list goes on and on. You will probably lose your desire to do it for fun when you do it all day. I did. But look at the flip side. Doing it for a lving will provide you with an outlet for that aspect of your life. Then you can devote your off hours to your 914!

That is when you're not working 12 hour days, 18 hour upgrades, etc...

Where's that sendmail book? Aw screw it...

QUOTE (Gint @ Mar 28 2006, 07:13 PM)

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 05:10 PM) I really enjoy technology, but I feel that if involved in technology in a daily basis will make me lose intrest in my personal projects involving technology and computers--my hobby or what-not. IT gets old fast when you do it for a living and there's a gun to your head. Schedules, bosses, users, projects, paperwork, politics, etc... the list goes on and on. You will probably lose your desire to do it for fun when you do it all day. I did. But look at the flip side. Doing it for a lving will provide you with an outlet for that aspect of your life. Then you can devote your off hours to your 914! That is when you're not working 12 hour days, 18 hour upgrades, etc... Where's that sendmail book? Aw screw it...

What job doesn't entail bosses, users and schedules and timelines and corporate red-tape?

I dont mean to offend anyone, I just feel that every job that pays anything will have some of these traits to them.

b

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 05:34 PM)

I dont mean to offend anyone, I just feel that every job that pays anything will have some of these traits to them. b

Yeah every job gets old. If you are lucky which I seem to be (hell ask Dave). My last job was at cablevision and at first it was alot of fun. But man did it get old real fast.

My current job is alot of fun and everyday is completely different. And beleive me it can get real different. We work hard but play hard also. I won't go into details but man it is one crazy place. I got to say I really lucked out!

I have been in the IT game for neraly 20 years. I have done many aspects of it from programming to help desk to network engineer, you name it. Almost 10 years ago, I started my own company. My rules, my hours, my ass on the line. I wouldn't change it for an instant. Sure there are things I do without. I don't have all the cushy benefits that big companies have, but then again, I don't deal with their politics. When my wife was pregnant, I went to every doctors appointment with her. I don't miss stuff at my kids schools or activities.

So, once you get some experience, see if you can find a niche and start your own gig. Its hard, but the upside is way better on your own, than it is in a big company. Besides, the days of big company employment from start to retirement are long gone.

Good luck. Just my 2 cents.

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 06:34 PM)

QUOTE (Gint @ Mar 28 2006, 07:13 PM) QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 05:10 PM) I really enjoy technology, but I feel that if involved in technology in a daily basis will make me lose intrest in my personal projects involving technology and computers--my hobby or what-not. IT gets old fast when you do it for a living and there's a gun to your head. Schedules, bosses, users, projects, paperwork, politics, etc... the list goes on and on. You will probably lose your desire to do it for fun when you do it all day. I did. But look at the flip side. Doing it for a lving will provide you with an outlet for that aspect of your life. Then you can devote your off hours to your 914! That is when you're not working 12 hour days, 18 hour upgrades, etc... Where's that sendmail book? Aw screw it... What job doesn't entail bosses, users and schedules and timelines and corporate red-tape? I dont mean to offend anyone, I just feel that every job that pays anything will have some of these traits to them. b

You missed my point. All of the crap can really take the enjoyment out of it. You won't want to do it when you get home. It sounds like fun now, but when you get into the real work world, the fun slowly dies away. And there's the fact that you don't really have a clue at this point what that's really like when the burner is on full broil. Add in a wife and kiddies (and a 914 habit) and you'rve got some real fun.

I forgot though. You're all of, what, 19 or 20 right? So you've got all the answers.

I'm done now.

QUOTE (Gint @ Mar 28 2006, 08:25 PM)

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 06:34 PM) QUOTE (Gint @ Mar 28 2006, 07:13 PM) QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 05:10 PM) I really enjoy technology, but I feel that if involved in technology in a daily basis will make me lose intrest in my personal projects involving technology and computers--my hobby or what-not. IT gets old fast when you do it for a living and there's a gun to your head. Schedules, bosses, users, projects, paperwork, politics, etc... the list goes on and on. You will probably lose your desire to do it for fun when you do it all day. I did. But look at the flip side. Doing it for a lving will provide you with an outlet for that aspect of your life. Then you can devote your off hours to your 914! That is when you're not working 12 hour days, 18 hour upgrades, etc... Where's that sendmail book? Aw screw it... What job doesn't entail bosses, users and schedules and timelines and corporate red-tape? I dont mean to offend anyone, I just feel that every job that pays anything will have some of these traits to them. b You missed my point. All of the crap can really take the enjoyment out of it. You won't want to do it when you get home. It sounds like fun now, but when you get into the real work world, the fun slowly dies away. And there's the fact that you don't really have a clue at this point what that's really like when the burner is on full broil. Add in a wife and kiddies (and a 914 habit) and you'rve got some real fun. I forgot though. You're all of, what, 19 or 20 right? So you've got all the answers. I'm done now.

hey man i dont wanna start a fight here.

i'm listening....

b

IT can be a great career...just depends on your ambition. I've been in it for 30 years (started working in the college computing center my freshmen year back in 75). Today I'm the CIO of THE only real motorcycle company in the world (hmmm..wonder which one that is? lol). I've done applications, infrastructure, security etc. Get experience in all areas and that grooms you for the top job!

Technology is getting more complicated with everything and everybody being connected. Real high demand skills are network engineers (nic to nic people...lan, wan, voice...converged networking), security engineers (not admins..the ones that can build security solutions and can probe like the best hackers), and enterprise architects. Those are all fun disciplines also.

If you ever want to chat about what management looks for, someone who has run the gauntlet of IT jobs, and is passionate about what they do give me a pm and I'll be happy to spend some time talking about it.

Jim

The fun left my job years ago. I have done it all it seems. I now just do it for the money. And that is the real fun part. As it pays the bills, puts food on the table, keeps the Mrs happy and subsidizes my car habit.

What more can a fella ask for?...

OK I would love to have Sara Evans park her cowboy boots at my door, but the Mrs said the bed would be a bit too crowded....I'm gonna miss the ole gal

There's still a good amount of fun to my job, but a lot of that other stuff too. As someone said, that comes with the territory in many corpoate jobs sooner or later.

I'm just lucky to have a good crew. Working closely with good people makes all the difference.

Well I guess I should have posted my creds, but didn't. Since everyone else did, I will too. I'm an IT guy as well, going on 17 years. I was alot like bd. As a kid, I loved to tinker and was constantly learning new stuff. Was on all the geek squads in HS, programming team, chess club, Academic Decathalon, etc. After high school I enlisted in the Air Guard and learned radio/electronics from the Air Force. When I got home, I went to work for a small shop, I started off as a pc/printer tech. Now I am a Sr. Systems Admin for a DoD contractor. There have been alot of ups and downs along the way. The thing I noticed is that if you're doing what you love and what comes natural to you, then it's not really "work".

What everyone has said so far is true, there is a lot of sage advise on this board. When you get that first job, shut up sit down and learn every thing. Never stop learning, that is the key. I've gone back to school to finnish my degree, as I aspire to take my career to the next level. I figure I've worked for enough idiot IT managers, now it's my turn to be idiot in charge!

I don't do the at home computer stuff any more, not enough time, and like everyone has said it gets old, after doing it all day. I've tried to round myself out and learn some new "low tech" hobbies, like 35 year old german sportscars, woodworking, etc.

Have fun and never stop learning, doing what you love and what comes natural to you will take you along way.

p.s: Jim... where do I send my resume? lol

"Today I'm the CIO of THE only real motorcycle company in the world (hmmm..wonder which one that is? lol)"

Buell right

Its a good life, happens I still mess with stuff at home, been in it for 27 years now. And my son now fixes computers at his school OSX, IP network stuff, I keep a watchful eye on him. He's 10 he will be hacking his grades soon

Here is the best point, do what you want to do, and do what for the most part makes you happy. In IT you spend 70 to 90 hours a week doing IT related stuff, it might be work, it might be research, it could be networking (people) but it is all IT related. You will find no matter how big a city you work in, the Geeks know the Geeks, and we know the UbberGeeks from the wannabes. In IT everybody knows everybody, you burn a bridge you burnt your career, only way out is to move out of the culture center you are dealing with. But I see this in every career field to a degree.

If you don't want to deal with it, become a fry cook, heck the White castle down the road has a sign up for $800 an hour. Why they did not leave the "00" off I don't know, but then I think I will go in and apply and see what they say.

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Mar 28 2006, 06:05 AM)

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 09:52 AM) ...makes me wonder why I never get the good jobs..... maybe they go to people who can spell "ridiculous" ?

Maybe they feel intimidated by your crown!

mmmm, sara Evans.....

914forme...you do know that Buell is wholly owned by THE AMERICAN motorcycle company? lol

I thought he was refering to Victory?

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 08:38 AM)

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Mar 28 2006, 08:05 AM) QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 28 2006, 09:52 AM) ...makes me wonder why I never get the good jobs..... maybe they go to people who can spell "ridiculous" ? hey its early. shouldnt there be some time where one can make spelling errors? b

Personally I don't see how it's ever ok to write anything with your name attached to it that has typos. I'm not saying everybody is perfect. I make typos occasionally on the forum and when I notice I go back and correct them.

Consider your audience. You are posting on a public forum with 5,000 potential readers. One of these guys could be your next boss or could be a connection to a job some day. When you present yourself in public, do it in the best possible way you can.

To an IT manager who is doing hiring uncorrected typos say a few things:

The applicant just can't read or write well.

or

The applicant just didn't give a crap and was too lazy to lookup some words he didn't know how to spell.

Wait man....On an application I make *DAMNED* sure I don't mispell one word. On here, I feel that this is a more "laid-back" forum where people can talk...and I'm usually busy doing many things at once while I am posting. But if anyone here makes a definitive and absolute impression solely by the lack of "fixing 'typos'", then I don't need to be working for someone like that anyway. Not to mention that my employer should be gathering data about me from this forum anyway.

come on man.

b

b

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 30 2006, 01:57 PM)

Wait man....On an application I make *DAMNED* sure I don't mispell one word. On here, I feel that this is a more "laid-back" forum where people can talk...and I'm usually busy doing many things at once while I am posting. But if anyone here makes a definitive and absolute impression solely by the lack of "fixing 'typos'", then I don't need to be working for someone like that anyway. Not to mention that my employer should be gathering data about me from this forum anyway. come on man. b b

Atta boy, take a swat back at them. Shows grit. You will need grit to get through the days at work.

QUOTE (bd1308 @ Mar 30 2006, 01:57 PM)

Not to mention that my employer should be gathering data about me from this forum anyway. come on man.

You had better think twice.

Last year, I was on a job interview. Towards the end, they started asking me questions about my Porsche 914, my involvement with Autocross and other things.

Google is a powerful thing.

Britt Dodd on Google

Yes Google is powerful, but references are even more powerful. There have been good points made here, but I think its been taken a bit too far.

And usually when I mis-type something, I get some undesired attention from a secret admirer

Thanks for the replies, but I feel like the number of replies and the wealth of information has been reached.

All I am saying is that I don't always use perfect American standard english during daily life, and I am just trying to be as honest and real as I can with my "virtual presence."

Google is powerful--Qarl pulled a school yearbook picture from my all-male Catholic High school. That was just simply mindboggling.

b

You might be surprised what some of these IT people doing the hiring will find out about you and bring up. I had one guy give me a hard time on a third interview because 2 weeks earlier I had a typo on an email.

I must say interviewing for IT positions has got to be the worst interviews I have ever had to do. I've had people talk down to me like I was dirt. I've had them give me Full MCSE test that took hours to finish. Really amazing the hoops they put you thru. On more then one I have said "You know I don't think I would want to work under you" and walked out(polietly of course). Also when you are new and you got a room full of people drilling you it can be a bit overwhelming. Heck I have answered things wrong that I know dam good and well the answer to.

I've been doing Full time IT for about 9 years and I love it. I go home and play on the computer all the time - usually messing around with new technologies. I'm more likely to buy a cisco router than a playstation.

Don't let people tell you that work is not fun, or is awful. Those people are simply in the wrong job.

QUOTE

Google is a powerful thing. Britt Dodd on Google

Whoa, Big Brother is definately watching...

I didn't realize there were IT guys in Orwell's "1984".

QUOTE (jim912928 @ Mar 29 2006, 04:44 AM)

IT can be a great career...just depends on your ambition. I've been in it for 30 years (started working in the college computing center my freshmen year back in 75). Today I'm the CIO of THE only real motorcycle company in the world (hmmm..wonder which one that is? lol). I've done applications, infrastructure, security etc. Get experience in all areas and that grooms you for the top job! Technology is getting more complicated with everything and everybody being connected. Real high demand skills are network engineers (nic to nic people...lan, wan, voice...converged networking), security engineers (not admins..the ones that can build security solutions and can probe like the best hackers), and enterprise architects. Those are all fun disciplines also. If you ever want to chat about what management looks for, someone who has run the gauntlet of IT jobs, and is passionate about what they do give me a pm and I'll be happy to spend some time talking about it. Jim

Hmmm where do I start, on one hand Jim Im really very interested in hearing the inside of what goes on at the IT shop at HD, on the other hand, where do you get the EGO? "THE only real motorcycle company in the world"
Not to HiJack Britt but referancing HD and technology in the same paraghraph (as it relates to thier products) is laughable, you should look to the big (Japanese) 4 for inovation and technology, evan Ducati before HD