Ok, second drive started off fine, oil light no flicker when she's cooled off..

Sounds:

1. Lean

2. Over Advanced

How many clicks off of black smoke is your mixture set @?

It feels now like it wants to be shifted just under the power curve, and it pings in a 200 rpm range starting at 3k.

Maybe I can string together an a/f meter from paperclips, and dustmites?

I hope the oil flicker isn't bad bearings...

62 miles isn't better than 4800..


M

Sounds like timing problems. You need to check the timing at 3000+ rpm.

To do this correctly, you need the timing light that has an adjustable advance knob. Run the motor up until it won't advance the timing any more, and then dial the knob in until you get 0 deg showing.

I ran my 2270 between 28 and 30degs of timing (MAX) but with 10 deg's at idle (gotta love the Mallory!). Therefore, she'd start and idle nice and easy, but not ping like hell under load.

Tom

I've never run FI, so I can't help your other problem though, so sorry...

Tom

Yes, use a timing light and set the timing to 27 degrees before top dead center at 3500 rpms. Ok, where is that? Go to the PP article and (copy and print) that guide that will set up the marks on the Fan. Mark it will white paint (there should be a mark stamped into the fan).
Take off the hoses on the dizzy and plug them. Hook up the timing light, rev the engine to 3500 and move the dizzy until your mark lines up with the notch. (Its real easy to see, NOT!)

As for the black smoke and being lean that is kind of opposite. The knob on top of the ECU only sets the idle mix at idle. It has nothing to do with the A/F mix. If you are blowing black smoke after setting the timing then you are running rich. Could be the wrong MPS or bad MPS.

Geoff

Misunderstood..

I wanted to get a general consensus on how many clicks BACK from FULL RICH other people's 2.0s are running.

I just had to do anything hot-n-dirty to get it back to the shop for valve adjust, and initial tuning, mission accomplished, and thanks for the help, as usual guys.

It's obvious that the plugs are fouled, and the timing is advanced too far for the last 15-20 miles to happen with a smile.... in the dark... in Savannah... like you COULD smile here..

Savannah!


M

I am running the idle adjustment screw on the ECU at where the factory put the little mark in the ring. I do get alittle hunting during warm up but it smooths out when its warmed up. My mark is about half way.

Geoff

I feel even better then, that is just about where I put it too.. the timing is far advanced, for sure.

I actually feel tired for the first time in nearly 6 weeks, relaxed a little even.

It's amazing how much all this has stressed me out, it's been a test.



M

The question is why are the plugs fouling?

was black soot rich when we fired it up.



M

Does the MPS hold a 15hg vacuum for about 5 minutes? Even if it does, what MPS and ECU are you running? You can't mix and match them.

Geoff

Let me clear up the ends I left hanging:

motor went bad @ 4800 miles
back to builder
completely new motor with the injection from the first
no settings changed
fired right up but sooty
after 3-4 minutes I kept it @ 2000rpm while someone just turned the screw to stop the hyper-richness
It ran ok, so we decided to fix the rest tomorrow..
after 60 miles, it was lumpy, and @ 83 I decided to park it at the shop

It's just not tuned, at all, none.


M

At 2000 rpms you should not be running in the idle circuit range unless the throttle is closed completely. An AAR valve will keep you at 2000 for a few minutes.
Hmm, sooty black means too rich which leads me to suspect the MPS as that controls the A/F mix with Djet. If that is mis adjusted or you have mis matched parts this is what can happen.
Again, what are the numbers on the ECU and MPS? You may have had the FI put on this new motor by the shop but they could have grabbed a different MPS.

The other thing is a bad CHT. It could be just bad or shorting out on the engine tin.

Geoff

Geoff what does someone need to test the MPS? Also your saying the MPS of my 2.0 djet would not work on my 1.7?
Eric

Sure it will work but rich. The MPS's were calibrated for each run of motors. 037's (last 3 digits) were for the 73 2.0L cars only. Put them on other cars and they run rich. 049's are what go on 1.7's as they are set leaner at partload and WOT.
Usually, someone puts a 1.7L MPS on a 2.0L car and runs it lean. The result can be the dropped seat problem but you will get better gas mileage!
The MPS's are pretty sensitive little things and handle the A/F mix by sensing the engine manifold vacuum and then adjusting the injector duration.
Actually, people drive within a narrow range- partload which is cruising along at 3000 rpms at 35 mph or WOT.
Geoff

Test with one of these.

Thanks geoff! If my MPS is bad, where can a get a replacement? Reconditioned, used, new anything that is in good condition and inexpensive (I know that's quite an oximoron)

Pelican sells a 043 for 74-76 2.0L for $725

I have a few good units that have been tested and recalibrated for $200.

Geoff

just got a rebuilt unit from a pp member on ebay. very affordable! gotta check the calib but it holds vacuum - more than i can say about the last two i bought.

jbb

That is the key to a good MPS. Does it hold a vacuum? If it does then it will respond to changes in manifold vacuum correctly. Now, if it wasn't such a bitch to remove the machined stop it would be cheap to recalibrate them.

Geoff

you're the man geoff. this should be a nailed classic for you f.i guys. "kevin you need to put the f.i. back on your car". geoff would be at my house every other day. . no thanks .

kevin

Hey Geoff, MPS is the right one, and it's been -opened-..

(all over the phone)




M

Baaad sign if its been opened. Test it will a vacuum tester to see if its toast first.
The other bad sign is a drilled machine plug so some idiot could try to adjust it.
Kevin, if you didn't sync the carbs or had two different sized carbs, how well would it run?

The biggest problems with Djet are these:
1. Mis-matched parts: The "mechanic" just went thru a box of parts and grabed the first ones he could find when he installed the FI.
2. Vacuum leaks- Due to old hoses, seals, or poor assembly the engine is running lean.
3. Mechanic MPS adjustment- Due to the above problems, the mechanic then drills out the machined plug and adjusts the MPS by ear. A "trick" he learned off a matchbook cover.

Once you set up Djet, its like any other FI. Just forget about it and drive!

Geoff

Geoff,

I adjusted both of my MPS's and I didn't have any trouble getting the plug out. Both of them were still sealed from the factory, but it only took me about 15-20 minutes to get each plug out. Used a heat gun and some small screw drivers to scrape the glue out. It was a learning experience, but I think I got them both adjusted properly.

There are many things that can effect teh engine in the way it has been described. Yes, the MPS is one item. However, what about overall fuel pressure? What about an open or high resistance in the head temp sensor wire/connection. Don't get stuck on this MPS thing..... Check everything.

Chris

If you used Brad Anders methods with a Wavetek or went to a dyno shop and set them to set the A/F then you know its right. Sure you can adjust an MPS by the seat of your pants but all of the units I have checked were off and set too lean at partload. Also the WOT is hard to set without a Wavetek and the WOT stop screw is impossible to set with electronic means.

The guess and by gosh method is fine getting it running. Same thing with carbs, go to a dyno shop and set the A/F mix there so you don't burn it up. (See Zeke's posts on PP)

Geoff

A shorted or dead CHT results in a rich mix when starting up and running like a pig. If it starts up fine and gas isn't pouring out of the exhaust, rich running mixture is usually caused by the MPS. The MPS controls the running fuel mixture and you have a unit thats been played with.
Sure, someone could have cranked the fuel pressure way up but thats very usual.

Geoff

MPS checked out fine, I gave my mechanic your links.

My car won't be done today.

CRAP



M

The valves were tight, way tight, real tight, super tight.

I can't wait to get this badboy seasoned.


M

Where can I borrow a tester like this, or would most automotive shops have something like this?

Almost any auto mechanic will have a simple vacuum tester.

Geoff