I called Renegade but haven't herd back yet. Everyone just states a big block Chrysler unit is the correct pump. Well I know there are a few different overall styles so I ordered one from Summit Racing. I got a Edelbrock unit made with a cast impeller. Well it doesn't fit, the depth of the unit is different. My old one is about a 1/4 inch thinner.
specifically , what is the application I need?
All the pumps on Summits site look to fit the same engine combination.
I am looking for one with a cast impeller.

You *can* use the Hemi water pump (or 440) but Renegade has theirs made specifically for the water housing. The impeller depth is set specific to the housing. You would have to "modify" a stock pump to make it work.

Set it side by side and take a picture. Post it here.

I say: have your pump rebuilt or bite the bullet and buy it from Renegade if you want to stick with the belt driven pump. I have a friend here in SD with my old V8 914 with electric pump and 930 box. His pump works fine for daily driving. Not sure how long it will last..


B

I have the new one repacked for shipping back to Summit but the difference in pumps is the flange is longer along with the overall length of the spinning shaft and impeller. The impeller looks to be taking up more space as well. I want a cast impeller, you can see how I bent this one up. I may have reach 4k before the thermostat opened completely. I know I shouldn't run 4k until the engine is really up to temperature, having said that, I don't think I need my water pump committing suicide to protect the engine.

After grenading my first V8 pump back in 97 or so.. I never ran a t-stat again. Just a restrictor (gutted t-stat) I cant count on friends driving the cars to "wait" for them to warm up.

Typical SBC's have a bypass on the pump for this exact reason.


Good luck.


B

B,
This was renegades response to my email, I'm not at all criticizing them but I don't see where they said it's a Chrysler pump. Its ambiguous reference to the impeller is what I am wondering about. Again no criticism it just may be my ignorance to the situation. The part number I found to be good but no picture was available. I sent a message back asking a clarification as to what the reference meant.

It is a Chrysler BB 440 water pump impeller...honest. Here is out GMB part number 120-1200. If you have troubles, try another brand or another store. We have them in stock if you would like to get one.

I don't normally rant about things but it should be essayer to find your first replacement pump for the Renegade housing.

I found the correct fitting water pump however I couldn't get one with a cast impeller. The part number I was given was GMB 120-1200 but there were some complications with that information. I ended up with a Cardone brand pump A55-3114. When the designer/retailer doesn't know the original application for the pump you can run into problems. The parts store guys don't deal with this part every day/month. So after trying 4 pumps and 4 or 5 stores I got one that will fit. I think the people who deal with this everyday fail to understand not knowing all the details makes it a challenge to get the correct part.
Having said this, I just may

Did you consider just simply waltzing into your local NAPA and non chalantly asking if they have a replacement water pump for a Porsche V-8 914? I cannot count the number of times I have been to junkyards or auto parts stores looking for "stuff" and they ask me ...."what year, model, application" ........ You know how it is.. Good luck on the H20 pump.

Bill

Why do you want a cast impellar?

Are my missing something? RH stated that the replacement part that you seek is in stock. Why not just purchase the correct part from RH and be done with it. $80.00 and problem solved????? :confused:

SERIOUSLY..

I was looking for a cherry bomb muffler for a friends truck, My friend asks the guy while I walk away (they were not on display anywere) and as I come back, the guy behind the counter says "sorry, I dont carry that muffler for a 01 ranger"

I give the guy a stern look and ask him if he carries cherry bomb mufflers, he says "I have to look it up" (fin moron cant walk back... and look in his muffler section)

as im glaring at him, I tell him "fine, 73 camaro"

"Oh, yes we have a few cherry bombs, what size inlet"

I lean over the counter, looking at his screen... they dont say glasspack or turbo, so I asked him to show me one
(dumbass could have gone and looked in the first place)

Grabs a turbo cherrybomb, and he's got a dickhead look like he had since I walked up..

Tell him thats not the kind I was looking for... and walked out...

had my friend do a brake stall.. ooohh, I was pissed...

Autozone by the way.. (ps.. 7 FLAPS in my town... none have a cherrybomb.. geez)



GL on the water pump

The stamped impeller folds up like tin foil if you rev the engine before the "T" stats completely open. The engine wasn't cold It had been driven an hour before. I may have reached 4500 rpm not a big deal to me but the pump didn't think so.

Turbopaul,
I know they have them in stock but there stamped as well. Renegades price is 99.00 and 3 days or so. I never cared about the cost, I wanted a cast impeller so it wouldn't happen again. I spent a few days looking for one that had a cast impeller (bought an Edelbrock unit from summit $120.00 with a cast impeller that didn't fit) once I realized the ones I found wouldn't fit I needed more information.

The trouble w/ a cast impeller is they will blow the hoses from the pump to the block apart if the t-stat is closed...

Make sure you get all the blades from the original impeller.

BJH

I was thinking there is a down side to a hearty impeller as well. I may just run a restricter since its getting warmer in Ca. I did run down the scattered parts.
thanks for the input, the pump is on and works fine.

So did you end up finding a source for a cast impeller? I am thinking I would like to do the same.

it sounds to me like there is another problem. I doubt this happens on a stock Hemi.

"Cardone brand pump A55-3114"
Is this what you used? Plug n play into Renegade housing? Good to have a 2nd source. I try not to cruise over 2K before the temp gets to 140 or so but sometimes rev to 3K before shifting.
Ed

Paul,
I ended up with a stamped impeller, for now I will go with that.
I do think you could remove the stamped impeller and have a backing plate or some supports added quite easily. There loads of room to tack on a the same type you see on other stamped units. I decided to go without a thermostat and am using a mild restrictor. I don't want to damage another pump or blow off any hoses, I will just keep an eye on the temperature.

Brett,
The Renegade system doesn't have a by-pass as the factory design, so theres no place for the pressure to bleed off.

Ed,
Yes, "Cardone brand pump A55-3114" bolts directly on. I paid $40.00 for it and am getting a spare this weekend.

Bill,
I get the same question, you know "year make model".
What can you say? I just tell them its for something I building in my shed

Great, thanks for the information

OK, thanks for the info.

After a night of general revelry and moderate alcohol consumption , during the ensuing fitful sleep, I had a dream that one of the club engineer/entrepreneurs mated an electric clutch (read: a/c compressor) to the remote water pump. It activated through a temperature switch that turned on the pump at the opening temperature of the thermostat. . . . can it be done?

I drilled 4 holes (3/16" diameter) in my thermostat, never had a problem even with 5000 rpm shifts when cold.

I was thinking the same thing, I have been looking at different A/C compressors shapes etc. Mounting the collar which holds the clutch bearing and the added clearance needed is another factor. Some smog pumps have clutches and they are a bit smaller. I would think you could do it but I am not up for that just now. An electric pump may just be the way to go. The pumps are pricey but the replacement motors are reasonable. I think a good pump is around 400 with adapters etc and the replacement motors are 180 or so.

You want to make it simple get the Mezeire 55gpm electric remote water pump, and place it on the bottom exit of the radiator and your done. I have had mine for two years no problems. Also I just added the renegade radiator and was at thunder Hill on the track with temps below 180 with a 160 degree thermostat. The whole key to the system is the radiator. Same set up without the radiator last year and I was 210-215 on the track. If you are running it on the street you can even use an electric water pump with 37gpm and it will work fine. Cali 914

Cali914,

do you have a oil temp gauge and pressue gauge? The last time I ran a well sorted V8 conversion car at Thill.. the oil temps went CRAZY. The water temp was fine. 3-4 laps of running 2:09's spiked the oil temp to over 260deg. Curious if you found this?

Back to the pump:

I got really really tired of blowing off hoses (this was before AndyL figured out we needed the "bead" in the end of the fittings) I HIGHLY suggest everyone stay away from the cast iron impellers. I personally would rather have the failure point be a $40 pump than have to deal with the lines on the front of the engine. The pump is easy to get to compared to those lines.

B

I have heard of one guy with oil temp issues, he snapped the crank. I don't have an oil temp gauge, pressure seems fine though.
Has anyone experienceed oil temp probs? I also am not running an oil cooler on my 305 I have put on 25,000 miles since the conversion, no problems yet.
Mark

From what I have gathered.. 90% of the conversion owners out there do not have a oil temp gauge. As far as pressure goes.. it only went down 20 some odd lbs of pressure when it was REALLY hot. It was still in the 40-50lb range when on the gas.

The track is a extreme "test" of the conversion systems.

I will say this.. all of the late model trucks/cars have oil coolers of some sort built into the cooling system.


B

No, you can't freakin' snap a crank!!!!!!!




Oil temp gauge and cooler are on the short list for this summer. Car has 10,000+ miles and a few medium length trips on it since the rebuild and running like a top, but no 15 hour trips either. I will be very interested to see how oil temps relate to water temps at higher speeds / longer trips.

BTW, on the "blowing water hoses issue", before I plumbed in my heat I was having a problem with pre-stat opening pressure breaking the seal where the Renegade serpentine system plate covered the water pump alignment dowl hole on the 350 block. Once I set up the heat, the core acted as a by-pass until the stat opened up, but then I was getting too much radiant heat in the cabin from my heater core, even with the temp control valve off. So, I made a core by-pass H valve set up with three cut off valves and some barb fittings. When closed, that leaves me with nothing more than a by-pass loop, which solved my warmup temp/ excess pressure issues. Soooo, the point of this rambling story is, if you guys with excess pressure concerns set up a by pass route, you shouldn't have any problems blowing things apart.

Brad, I have both gauges in my car - at Willow last time I had 200-210deg water temps, but the oil was close to 280 at one point and was idling at about 17-20lbs of pressure (idle for me is around 1200rpm) While going tube chassis, I am adding a dry sump system and big-ass oil cooler.

That said, Chevrolets of any 283/327/350/400 variety are the shittiest designed engines EVER, and the oiling is just one of them. It is scary how low a stock volume pump will idle once the car is warm, and put a HV pump on and turn some rpm and you will suck a 5qt pan dry on the track. For serious tracking of a 350-style Chevy, you almost have to go dry sump IMO, or put such a huge pan in it that you drag it on the ground in a 914. I would run no less than a HV pump, cooler, and an 8qt if not 9qt pan on a SBC on a road course. I have seen 7qts ran - and did that myself - but 1. I knew I was pushing it, 2. saw it on my temp/press gauges, and 3. intended to upgrade to dry sump when the project was running, tested and ready for more $$ to be dumped into it.

Cali914 - I am with you as I also have the Meziere 55gpm pump!

I agree. Serious track conversion cars should be dry sumped. I have used the Moroso road racing pan with multiple trap doors/kick outs with NO luck. You are correct about sucking the pan dry and putting all the oil into the valve covers!!

I have followed along with your project. One day I would like to see it in person. I like the direction you are headed. I have been involved with some serious 914's in the past. Yours appears to be heades towards the "serious side"


B

owee!