So I got the new silicon covered valve cover gaskets and put them on last time I ran the car hoping that this would solve the oil incontenance my engine is suffereing.....nope. Then I recalled that I may have been expecting a bit too much from these new fangled gaskets. My old valve cover has some corrosion on the mating surface that is potentially the cause, or at least an exacerbating factor of this leak. That plus the tooling marks on the head probably did it in. Thus, I just scored a good deal on some turbo valve covers (they realy have come down in price for new, though) and hope to have them in by Fri.

Some thoughts about hte other part of this problem, the mating surface of the cam towers.
Q: Could I fill in any tooling marks with a filler of some sort and sand smooth? ex; quick steel, jb weld, etc.

So long as this compound is not heat sensitive and can withstand oil I think it would work.

Comments?

alright,......how bad did you gouge the surface?

If you VERY CAREFULLY dress the surfaces with a large flat file, getting any burrs out, clean it with brake cleaner of laquer thinner, over fill the holes with JB Weld, and again file it flat, it should work. It's a factory authorized repair for pitting in BMW heads, and I do it with Wasserboxer heads all the time. Works well, within reason. So Called "Turbo" valve covers will require some pretty extensive machining to achieve clearance at the suspension console. Early aluminum SC lower covers might be better, assuming they're flat. Are you sure it's the covers and not the rocker shafts? The Cap'n

I just had my 3.2 put into my car. The race shop that did the final details on the engine and linkages (Rothsport) said that the silicone gaskets are no good as they "creep out" of the mating surfaces over time. He recommended the black graphite and paper gaskets as the best ones.

For what it's worth.

Gary

Krusty,
that is exactly what I was thinking. I am glad to know it is something that is already done. I am not 100% that it is not the rocker shaft. I may know more later today when I get in there. either way I needed a new cover. I gave the shop the gaskets for the rocker shafts (upgrade, not stock on my car I know) so I am not feeling like the shaft is the problem (fingers crossed). I thought the turbo covers were the big upgrade. I know I will have to machine of a little to get them to fit...I had to do it to these too. Also, I could not find a source for the OE old style covers. The only ones offered now are the turbos.

Aaron, I didn't gouge the surfaces. It kinda makes me mad as I know I didn't.

Gary, I had the ones you speak of first and they were way worse in my case. The new ones are doing beter, but I still have a constant drip.

I wouldn't say the machining required to get the Turbo valve covers to work in a 914 is "extensive", but it's not zero.

When you actually get the engine in the car, the first thing you should do it try to remove the exhaust valve covers. You'll likely find that you can't get them off, as they won't clear the trailing arm mount. You can machine off the ribs in the bad area, or you can use bolts instead of studs and nuts to hold on the cover. The bolt idea almost requires you to fit helicoils/timeserts where the studs went, as the cast Al cambox won't like you to remove/refit bolts regularly to do the valves (why studs are used). In any case, you'll be dropping the engine again to fix the problem...

I didnt have to drop the engine the other SEVERAL (due to oil leak) times that I have had to remove the valve covers recently. Oddly enough, I did have to remove the oil line on the one side and then bend the outlet out a little. I think my engine mount puts my engine a little forward and my oil cooler adaptor mod put the damn fitting about an inch closer than it could have been. I'll just measure the original covers for clearance and match the specs to the new ones.

Thanks for the info and idea about the bolts, but no way do I want to start helicoiling and such.....I hope I do not have to change my tune about that later.

Hey, for the JB Weld should I only use the long time to dry stuff (original) or would the JB quick work as well (I have some already)?

I think I will take pics so I can give you all a better understanding of my particular dimentional situation.

The tall ribs on the Turbo valve covers pretty much prevent removing the covers with studs in place, which is what I meant. If you had Turbo valve covers before, then perhaps they've already been "relieved". If you didn't, then compare them to the old covers (which have much shorter ribs).

If you can remove completely stock Turbo covers on your car with all the studs in place, your trailing arm ears aren't in the same place they were on my '73.

Ah, gotcha. No, I knew going in that I would have to remove and modify some ont he ribs and material. No worries there. Ya, the old ones ribs are almost non existent.

Evil one,

Did you set the valve cover on a flat surface yet? Had a couple cars come to me with leaks and the lower covers were "warped".

Typically you should be able to get a non leaking seal with the standard thicker graphite gaskets. There is some manual out there that says to torque the nuts down to something like 6lbs which just doesn't cut it. They need 40-45lbs torqued from the inside out in the typical cross pattern.

If you have a 4 1/2 grinder and want to put on turbo valve covers. Grind away until you can put the cover on with the engine in the car. Easy. Done a few, takes about 15 minutes to do both and you only take off just what you need.

40-45 lbs?

seems alot? what size thread are they?

I use 18, which is just a little more than the 15 specified. I wouldn't use the rapid set JB weld. As with other epoxies, what you get in convenience, you lose in permanence. It needs to dry 24 hours before you can file it. The Cap'n

They are 8mm studs.

Dan, yup, pretty much what I was a figgerin.

Krusty, I figgerd that as well. Just can't cut corners.

As for the rocker shaft, it does not seem that any are leaking (yay). the corrosion on the valve cover was right where the leak was. It is minor pitting corrosion, but it seems to have been enough to help/cause the leak.

I will check the trueness of the old one (as mannnnnnny of you have suggested) tomarrow.

This is my $0.015 worth.

To get the valve covers to stop leaking.

1. Remove old covers and media blast them if they are the 930 type, else buy 930 type

2. Remove studs that hold on the lower valve cover

3. Clean cam tower surface. Lightly sand any tuff spots

3a. Adjust valves if needed

4. Install new studs. Note some studs go through the cam tower. Those studs require orange type loctite sealer. The rest use blue loctite.

5. Install new gaskets.

6. Install 930 lower valve covers.

7. Install new alum crush washers and 8mm nylon locking nuts.

8. Lower car and enjoy favorite beverage

Definitely check if your covers are warped. Worst case scenario the cam towers are warped. It happens on 911 SCs that have had broken head studs and were still driven too long. Seen it twice on abused 911s at the shop.

This engine has 0 miles on it. I rebuilt the bottom end and had a shop finish the top end so it is most liekly the shitty valve cover. I have new studs as well so no worries there. Everything had been chased/replaced and specked (supposedly) and so for ai have no real reason to believe otherwise. Other than my shitty valve cover which is the likely candidate.

I don't even own a straight edge....looks liek I am gonna have to get one tomarrow I just want to know, but the missing material from the corrsion was right where the leak was.

That's a ton of torque on valve covers.



Hmmm, I wonder.....

Silicone valve cover gaskets should be torqued to about 8lbs or less, they leak and will cut if you over torque them they need very, very little tightening. 45 sounds like a lot to me on the paper gaskets there only holding a cover on, I personally would tighten no more than 15.

That's only if they are giving you problems, sorry, I should have been more clear on that. Studs are 6mm. It is a lot of torque for a vavle cover, but if you have one that is slightly bent (Warped), it's about the only way to get it to seal without getting a new one or truing up the old one.

Evil one, set your valve cover on the kitchen table and see if it rocks back and forth at all. Laymens test, but will give you a quick and dirty answer.

I was noticing that some people were referring to red silicon gaskets. I have green ones that are basically paper gaskets that are impregnated with silicon. Would these not act similarly to regular paper gaskets?

I would recomend using the thicker graphite set. Most suppliers stock them as part package PK02. The thicker gaskets help to take up imperfections in the sealing surfaces. Plus they are way cheaper. They have been able to seal up even some pretty warped covers that people didn't have the $$$ to replace.

I really like the red silicone ones, cared for they will last and can be used over and over.

Too late for other gaskets. I have 6 of the lowers...I bought 6 before I found out you could reuse them.

For the uppers I am using graphite.

And now, into the garage with me.............

Well the jury is in and the cover was not warped. I checked it correctly on all axis and it was not warped. There was a bit of material missing where the corrosion was, but no warping. I wonder if the missing material could have caused the leaking.....like I was thinking? Ya, it is for certain. I am now gonna have to wait for the new ones. They may be here tomarrow.

STOP THE INSANITY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The simple repair is this:

The mag covers you have are probably pitted on the sealing surface, most are. Although this isn't "factory" get some new graphite gaskets, go to the local Honda motorcycle shop and buy some "honda bond" not the ht. After cleaning the valve covers with brake cleaner, and then drying them, apply some Honda bond, and then apply the gasket and torque to the head using new aluminum washers and nylok nuts. This WILL fix the problem, if the surface is what is leaking. Remember magnesium IS porous, and some covers are worse than others. After installation, wipe the cover edge down to remove any excess. Hondabond seals motorcycle magnesium and aluminum parts together for years, it should be in your toolbox.

If a leak persists, and you are not sure where it is coming from, apply some aerosol foot powder to the suspected area, after cleaning it and drying the area.

Run the engine and the leak will show it's ugly head in the form of a brown stain, you know what a brown stain is, yes it's shite. This is where the leak truly is.

Also don't forget the engine crankcase breather. It must be unobstructed and properly routed. Make sure you check it when the engine is warm, and the rubber is pliable.

If none of this fixes your problem, you may want to look a little deeper, I would start with a compression test and a leakdown. Just to make sure the working chambers are in good "working order".


Good Luck!


Erik Madsen

AKA... "shite stain".

Well, the covers showed up today and I will be modding them and putting them on. If all goes correctly I will be drivable (and my garage floor will be saved). I bet there is gonna have to be a lot of cutting on the ribbs.

There is no way that a sealant was gonna be a reliable fix for my problem. There was too much material missing from the cover surface in one area. I did try some very good sealant origianlly and it did not work. ( I do know of yamabond, honda bond, locktites, etc. )

<-- you see this? Its a smile. That is because my car is running and not pissing oil everywhere. Actually, it is as dry as a bone under there now. I got the turbo covers this am at 8:30 and promptly commenced to fitting them. I am very happy with the results <-- see, there it is again.

Now, I need to time it and drive it around the complex.

<-- all feels right.

Way to stick to it Mike....