Well, the newbie has another problem.

My wife's 914 ('73, converted to chevy V6) is still having starting problems. I thought I corrected all, but alas, the car is still having problems.

Started fine and totally reliably yesterday, but today, nothing.

I have already replaced the starter (rebuilt high torque), I have replaced the battery with a very nice Optima, and I have replaced the ignition switch.

Present symptoms: While cold... First turn of the key, I have electrical power to hazards, etc. There's a click click click click click at the starter, but the engine is not turning over.

After that, all electrical goes dead. No clicks, no hazzards, etc.

Come back a bit later, and you'll get power for the first turn again, then nothing.

I tried a jump start on the theory that my new battery might be drained. No dice.

There is an electrical gremlin in this car, and I can't seem to figure this one out. Any ideas?

My wife is afraid to drive this car now for fear that it will leave her stranded with all the starting problems. Please help me resurrect my wife's faith in her new teener!

Thanks,

John

Even though it's a new Optima, I would try swapping batteries because it's quick and free. Sure has the behavior of a bad battery.

Alternator failing? Do you have a CD box, like an MSD? Fuel pump? Fuse problem? Fuel pump fuse?

John,
Sounds like you may have a ground problem. The starter path for the positive is from the battery , thru the solenoid , thru starter motor to ground. Ground is from transmission to body. A quick check would be use one of the jumper cables and connect one end to the trans and the other to the battery negative. Try to start the car. If the car starts , you have a loss of ground somewhere.
The solenoid path leaves the positive battery and goes thru the relay panel ,then througt the ignition switch and depending on the year, thru a relay for the seat belts and then back thru the relay panel and to the solenoid to operate the solenoid. In other word a long run and easy to lose voltage in such a long run with so many connections. This is why the remote relay kit was designed. I had a 70, 1.7 that would occasionally have problems when really hot ( lived in San Diego at the time). I put a push to start switch in the engine tin by the starter and if it wouldn't start , I would put it in neutral with the handbrake set , pop the engine lid and reach in and push the push-to- start switch to engage the starter. Worked every time for several years.
Hope this will help.
Tom

Hi Rand,

Jumpstarting failed (not even turnover, just the click click), so I am believing this is not the issue. thanks very much for the reply.

John

Hi GTeener,

A failing alternator would explain if the battery is dead, but jumpstarting doesn't solve the prob.

What is an MSD?

Fuel Pump might explain it if the car was turning over but not catching. Car is not turning over.

Good idea on the fuses. I checked the fuse panel under the dash, and all fuses look good. Are there any hidden fuses I should check?

Thanks!!

John

Tom,

This sounds likd an excellent suggestion. I will try this evening and let you know what happens.

The conversion is very nice, but the wiring seems to be a bit of a hack job. The relay board has been deleted, and there are lots of cut wires in the engine bay and I'm not sure where many of them belong. I'm tempted to rip out the whole mess and start over with a clean wiring job.

I'll let you know what I discover in the ground, and if that turns out to be the prob, then we can discuss the solution.

Thanks so much!

John

I agree, it seems jumpstarting would rule the battery out. But I had a fluke battery failure once that would short internally when any kind of load was pulled on it.

It's a pretty slim chance this is your problem, especially if the bahavior was the same with the old battery. I just like to rule out the quick stuff first, so I would take the five minutes to try it with that battery out of the loop and know for sure.

Then the large positive cable that goes from battery to starter, and ground strap. Are the insides of the battery cable clamps clean? (Actually your jump start should have ruled that out. Oh well.)

I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, so you probably have a deeper gremlin. It's just when I hear click click click with no turnonver, I think dirty connections at battery terminals or bad battery because 99% of the time that nails it.

Well at least let me offer some moral support. Good luck. Looking forward to learning what it turns out to be.

Hi Tom,

I tried the jump from transmission to ground post, and that didn't solve the issue. I'm going to check through the wiring around the deleted relay panel and see what I can find.

Any other ideas?

Mebbe I should just give up and tow her to the shop.

MANY thanks,

John

Other than the relay box in the engine compartment and under the dash by the steering wheel, I don't know where other fuses are. I also don't have a 'Merican engine in my car

An MSD is a brand name for a CD (capacitive discharge) box which is part of the ignition system along with the coil and distributor. (See how much I've learned suffering with my car ) There are other brands like Pertronix and Permatune.

I had my MDS and battery replaced recently to solve my starting problems. Seems to have done the trick for me.

I know this sounds kinda funny, but is there gas in the tank?

At one time I thought I had a battery or starting problem. It would kinda crank but never catch and then drain the battery. I put a charger on and tried to jump start with no success. Just for giggles I added about 3 gallons of gas to the tank and she fired right up

Is your battery grounded to a small rusty, painted bolt attached to the side of the body and above the battery?? I had same symptoms as you; replaced battery, replaced cables from engine to battery and from battery to ground post - WOOPS the ground post broke off because under the paint and such it was all rust and corrosion (remember, electric current promotes corrosion). I bought a 25" ground cable and grounded battery to fan shroud and have never had the "intermittant start" problem again. Good luck, I hope you can smoke out the electrical gremlin and get back on the road

Chris,

I think you and Tom are on to something with the ground theory.

I inspected the ground cable where it bolts to the chassis right behind the battery, and there was some paint there, but no apparent corrosion. Combining your thought with Tom's, I ran the jumper cable from the negative battery pole to a piece of sheet metal in the front trunk. I actually had to hunt around to find something not painted. But I found a spot, and connected the other end there.

VROOM! Started right up.

I took the cables off, and same old clickety click.

Next step was to break out the dremel with wire brush. I cleaned off as much of the paint as possible from the connection. Reconnected the battery ground, and ....

Click click click.

I need to look closer at that bolt in the daylight and possibly try to clean it up some more. As an alternative, I may just buy a longer ground cable and make a new connection point on the chassis after sanding off some paint.

Right now, I am much happier and more fulfilled, knowing that thanks to everyone's help I am many steps closer to a solution.

More updates to follow, but I hope this thread helps some other poor newbie in the future! I'll let you guys know tomorrow if I am still stuck.

John

Morning John,
Yep , sounds like you have a ground problem. Try to find , remove , and clean up all of the ground connections you can and I think you will have success. After pulling my engine , I spent several hours finding ground connections and when I unbolted them , I was amazed that the car would run with the amount of corrosion they had. I cleaned them all up and hooked back up. I still have the engine out. Sure hope it runs when I get it back in. Just kidding, I'm sure it will be OK. Found lots of bad wires in the engine and fuel injection hwiring harness also. Spent several days rebuilding them. Just has to be tons better now.
Let us know how you do.
Tom

Starting demons: BEGONE!

After much tinkering, polishing, cleaning, isolating, and eliminating, I have FINALLY tracked down the ground issue.

Here is the guilty part:

Click to view attachment

For those of you who are just as green as I am with things mechanical, this is a special kind of ground post. The black thing on the top allows you to twist and disconnect the battery ground. I had no idea what this was for until I happened to see the exact same part for sale in an auto parts store, and I read the package!

LOL....

So, this is why I was having ground problems. The disconnect had worked its way to open.

I bought a new one, since this old one was worn, and now the car starts like a champ.

MUCHO thanks to all who helped me with diagnosis ideas. The "missing ground" theory was right on! And now all my terminals and connections are freshly cleaned.

John