looking to build a screemer this winter. wondering whats the best you can do for a 2.0 , whithout spending enough to acually buy another car. right know the set up i have know is fast , faster than a well running fuel stock injected 2.0. and it has 94's , i'm told not to go bigger than 96's, because of heat, and port and pollishing can make a big increase. well anyway what are some things i can do and where do i get the upgrades.

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seriously, what constitutes a screamer to you 125 hp 150 180 200+

start here Jake's type IV store

Well, considering that I bought my current 914 for $1000, and a basic rebuild of a type IV costs significantly more than that, not a whole lot.

For $5000 you can get a 2056 engine which as far as i know is good for somewhere around 120-130 HP. You can get kits but again these things all seem to be in the $2000 and up category. Like many others have said in the past, there are not a lot of bolt-on power mods for type IV engines.

On the other hand you can buy a Subaru 2.5L non-turbo engine for under $1000 like I did and get 165 HP stock. Its an involved project, but for about $2000-$3000 you can get 165+ HP with lots of room for expansion in the future (WRX motors, etc.)

-Tony

You're looking at either spending enough to buy more than one nice 914, or a different engine. A 150-200hp Type IV is going to be over $10K (probably WAY over for 200hp). A turbo Subaru can get you 250hp for under $10K, and probably under $5K if you're lucky. A V8 swap will do even better.

whats the work that has to be done for the conversion? but would really like to stick with a 914 2.0 base.

Conversions are outlined in the Classics Forum, the Conversions FAQ.

To stick with the 914 engine, call Jake Raby, as suggested above. He's your man for any high-power Type IV. He will sell an engine kit for a 2270cc engine, but you're only going to just touch 140-150hp with that, and it won't be cheap.

i know but last year i tryed to comunicate with them and got know reply, wanted to get it done so i got a rebuilt engine form cali. its better than what i had but not the hp's i was looking for. 140 to 150 would probably do with the aftermarket injection system i have it would maybe end up at 165 to 170. that would be nice. maybe i should get this thing dyno'd and see what it can really do.

Send your crank out to be counterbalanced, Rods done and balanced and rering

your Pistons and hone cylinders. Get a cam, followers and a set of heads from

Jake and it will save you money and be a runner.

I now have a 180HP 2270 kit thats as easy to assemble as the 150HP version...

sounds cool. is that the $4800 kit you list? how long is the wait after ordering? will that work with my injection system or will i have to go back to carbs?

Its the "Type 4 Torquer" kit.. Its a mirror image of the engine I built for the Hot VWs article bearing the same name that has been in the current and past three issues of the magazine.

I'm only offering this kit while the article is current, so September is the last month for it before I pull it back into the engine shop for full buids only..

We turn kits around in 6-10 weeks these days with the HUGE volume that the article has stirred up... Some of them we have turned around in 4 weeks..

Going with these kits ensures ease of assembly and proper engine design/function right from the start- BUT it allows you the benefits of assembling yourself. I offer full support during assembly and thats priceless.

If ya wanna spend the bucks go original. If ya wanna go for power for less go the conversion route. If ya wanna go dirt cheap and have more power than your trany can handel, go Subaru. Start small like 160 HP's and make your way up as you can afford it. Look into Subaru engines from 2000 up and you won't be dissapointed with the Hp's you will get for oround 1K! Renegad Hybrids has a good info page on the years/HP ratings. I also want you to look at the mileage on these engines; they should be around 30K for that kind of daneros. These engines run a good 200K and won't let you down! This way, you can always pollish your T4 and put it on a stand in your shop for OOOOHS and AAAAhs but hey, thats just an expensive WV engine!

Only Jake can make T4 dreams come true.

You won't be able to use your stock D-Jet F.I. system on anything larger than a 2056cc engine (stock crank with 96mm P/C). You would have to go with dual carbs or aftermarket EFI on a 2270cc engine (78mm crank with 96mm P/C).

I can attest to the top notch quality of the parts and service you will get from Jake (Type 4 store). You will not be dissappointed.

Build it right the first time !

why would you have to pull the kit after a certain amount of time. at this time i am looking for down the road options, that i want to do, as i said i got a repuilt engine last winter, not sure how long it will last though, i kind of drive it hard. but it was half of one of your kits. but i'm sure your kit is what i really wanted , much more hp's and with my sds system it may be as bad as i'm looking for. this winter i plan on redoing my entire suspention system , i have a 5 lug but its with spacers and i also have a original 914-6 set up i'm going to redo and put on, big breaks and all. so it looks like not this winter but next winter i will want to redo this engine. maybe we can set up a payment plan and i'll have it payed by next fall just before winter, that would keep the wife off me. or save it in a seperate acc. and pay in the sumer so its ready for delivery by next fall, or something.

This just an assumption on my part but Jake is tired of tire kickers. One way to separate buyers from lookers is to limit availability either by limiting the time something is offered or number of units. It's probably not greatest thing for you but, it is good marketing especially for someone who is positioned at the top of market.

If the offering is really successful and this appears to be, good marketing would suggest it might reappear in the future possibly with a few tweaks so it can be the "new and improved". If you want to wait you can hope he reintroduces it but, be prepared cause it will cost you more. That's the way I would market it at least.

Either buy it now or hope it returns. I have an engine that is similar and I had a fun little run with an E 55 AMG yesterday. When we came to stoplight I got a nice smile and a thumbs up. Priceless.

Dave

money is not the problem, its timing look up, the motor i have now has 300 or so miles on it. what i'm looking for i quess is what is the next step to improve this engine, heads porting ect. already have a cam in.

basicly you are screwed....the cam is the weaklink in the stock Type IV motor..I know Jake just posted on another site that he got a 20hp increase with a switch to new heads, but the motor was not stock nor was the cam.

headers would give you a few more ponies..the Tangerine units are the best, followed by the European racing headers...

about the only other thing to do to get HP in the "oh boy this is fun" range without tearing apart the motor would to add a turbo....not easy or cheap and trying to use the stock FI is silly (can and has been done)

check your spelling on ebay..... break or brake????

ya, i do that all the time sometimes i catch it and sometimes not.

what do you mean i'm screwed, i do have a bigger cam now. its not stock as it sets.

oh...I thought you had a stock rebuild since I thought you mentioned you had the stock FI, normally a bigger cam and stock FI don't play very well together...

from all the reading I've done about these motors, changing the cam and stroke seems to wake them up the most...

'll check monday, i have the build sheet at work, to see for sure. i think its a 78 . and i do have a sds system , not stock fuel injection.

stock stroke is 71mm

have you dyno'd the car to see where you at HP/trq wise? You might be at the limit for your combo....or there might be more available if you tweak the compression or play with the heads....

was the SDS tuned with a WB02??

no i've just been tweeking on the computer myself. what is a wbo2. maybe i should do that. i've wondered if i should take it in and try do have someone dyno it.

Mike,

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm busting your balls but, I can't accept that.

I think a better question is was it tuned with all the tools available. I don't bet very often. The last time I was in Vegas I didn't make 1 bet but, I would bet that any car tuned on the street with a WBO2 leaves hp that can be found on a dyno. Same can be said for emissions and mileage. I've tuned a bunch now with the wideband on the street but if there isn't more in my engine I'd be really surprised. All you can do is pick a A/F ratio to shoot for and 12.5 might not be as good as 12.3 for horsepower for a given engine. The only way you'll know is measure it and then reproduce it.

Ghost, find out the particulars of your engine and then look into it. Then take most of what you've read here and chuck it. Talk to Jake cause if you are a serious customer he'll help you out. When you get as much info as you can then decide.

Dave

I hear you Dave, I guess the correct question would be "was the car tuned on a dyno", the WB02 would help but the dyno does not lie

WB02 = wide band oxygen sensor

Innovate Motorsports

I have the LC-1 that is used with my LINK fuel injection

Ghost

A WBO2 is a wideband oxygen sensor. It gives a good insight into whether the engine is running rich or lean and more importantly how rich or how lean. Most o2 sensors are narrow band and only tell you whether you are rich or lean.

Tuning with a wide band O2 sensor involves trying to adjust fuel and timing to achieve a atarget air fuel ratio. A wide band sensor reads the amount of unburned O2 in the exhaust gases and from that the air fuel ratio in the cylinder can be calculated. It is generally thought that type IV idle around 14 :1 cruise around 13.5 :1 and make the most hp at 12.5 :1. Without a WBO2 you can only guess at these #'s depending on how it feels and sounds. A narrow band O2 sensor is only a little help as it would say all of these ratios are rich. With a WBO2 you can tune to arrive at these ratios.

The problem is that 12.5 may not be the best air fuel ratio for a particular engine. If a dyno says that you have 99.5 hp @ 4500 rpms with 12.5 :1 A/F but you have 100.7 @ 4500 rpms at 12.7 :1 A/F because you backed out a little fuel, you would probably chose to run the leaner tune unless head temps were too high or exhaust gas temps were out of line. Tuning with without a WBO@ is just a guess. Without the dyno you would miss the extra 1.7 hp. Without temps you might run too hot. WBO2, exhaust gas temps, cylinder head temps, fuel usage and I don't know what else all give some insight into how an engine is running. The point is you need to use as many tools as you can.

sorry , not to familiar with all the abreviations, yes i do have a oxygen sensor. but it sounds like is would be a great idea to take it in and have it dyno'd at this point.

I designed this kit for the engine shop as a complete engine.. When the Hot VWs opportunity came around I really wanted to use it because of it's output and reliability because I planned on making the 3,450 mile cross country trip with what ever engine I completed for the article...

While the article was running I decided to offer the engine in kit form, as a limited time offer...

Now that it'll be finished in September its going back to the engine shop for complete builds only..

With our recent head changes even the weakest 2270 kit is 165HP and this Type 4 Torquer made 185 with 187 TQ last time I dynoed one.. Its serious power for sure

Here is the graph.. Look at that huge power below 3500 RPM and the gross torque!! Note it only needs 6000 RPM to get the job done!

ok, here is the rebuild i got last fall that i have in the car now, 300 or so miles on it. 94 bore, stoke 78, align bore size/ std, trust cut size/ std, crankshaft size/ 10std, cam#84 web, lift .435, duration .290, 2.0 heads valve size 44x38, compresiom 8 to 1, this is all i know about this engine. but am looking it inprove on this if possible.

With that combo I'd bet that stock rods were used and that kills te entire rev range, along with the rest of the combination. The Web 86 cam won't cut it with this much displacement.

You are lucky if it makes 130HP on a good day.

"Its all in the combo!!"

It can certainly be improved on in every way from reliability to longevity and running temps. The stock rods are too short for the stock stroke, adding 7mm on top of that sends piston speed through the roof and kills the rev range..

will this engine set up you have work with my sds system, i do have another motor i have been saving two acually 2.0's and one is in running condition we took out of my sons car to redo his car then he sold all the stuff on the car and cut the car up so i ended up with his engine for a spare. the other i am guessing is also a good 2.0 as i have never seen a clean engine after i took all the tins and fan shroud off like this one. maybe i can get something together while you still offer this kit and do one of these engines. you can allways call if you have time or have anything else you would like to say that would be easyer to discuss on a phone, i hate typing. thanks Drew [ 317-431-3621 ] cell