this has come up before and again lately. some people complain about how other members jump in and bash their cars in for sale ads without knowing *anything* about the car. they've never seen it in person but believe it's only worth half what the seller is asking and they go ahead and bash the guy into the ground.
mind you, they also never had any intensions of buying the car in the first place ...

so, the question has been raised:

should only the seller be allowed to post in his own ad?

Andy

Wouldn't that just cause these cars to be discussed in the Garage?

I clicked no but... maybe for cars. I think the give and take is needed in the parts section. E.G.: "Parting Out" can be a lengthy exchange (especially if Slits gets involved)

"WTB" is another example... yes, that can be handled through PM's but, there's some value in checking responses.

Moreover we should have a small understanding and agreement that people cruising or trolling the cars for sale should keep their mouths firmly shut when considering critiquing someone else’s car for sale. That's just poor upbringing.

It can be a tough one though... say someone is trying to sell a rust bucket and you've already done a PPI for another lister. The car is listed as pristine yet you know the hell holes are MIA and the Longs are Swiss cheese... we've never been a group to let someone take advantage of one of our own.

Talk amongst yourselves...

Ideas:

• Have a switch that the author can lock the post
• Classified adds then split again between read only and replies welcome (I know, bad idea)
• Only folks with post of more than nnnn allowed to reply (so no "torpedoes")

Not sure the board can do any of that, but, just some ideas I thought I'd throw out there. I'm not selling anything either, so take my opinion for what it's worth.

A hard call. I'd say that while there is a potential for abuse by other members, there's also just as much a potential for abuse by the seller that needs to be called BS. Also, if they were read-only, the seller would be answering the same question N times via PM, rather than once to the thread.

Can this be made an option at post time easily?

I voted that they should be locked down and only available to the seller to post and reply to. The classifieds are for posting stuff for sale or stuff wanted. It should not be a venue for discussion. That's what the garage is for.

I look at the past to see what has worked well. My memories of how the 914 CLub classifieds used to be are lasting.

You can't publicly respond to a newspaper ad or an ebay listing. What purpose does it serve here?

There are plenty of times I've WANTED to reply to a newspaper ad. Ebay gives you (the seller) the option to post the Q&A that goes on between buyer and seller. Plenty of people do ask the seller questions, and they frequently get posted back to the listing via an Ebay feature (if the seller wants).

Personally, I don't want to see classified discussions moved to the garage. Now you've just split the thread, and you have to refer to both. PITA.

Great subject for discussion, I’m sure everyone has an opinion on this one way or another.

For the record I voted no. Pelican has gone to no comments on the cars for sale section mainly because of 3d party bashing of cars for sale. I would rather see a moderator remove inappropriate posts than cut out conversation entirely. Sometimes people inadvertently over price items, and other times they are gougers trying to take advantage of someone. I never mind someone’s informed opinion on something I’m selling. Part of the responsibility of selling something is to be informed about what you are offering, and there is nothing wrong with someone pointing out a misrepresentation or inadvertent error.

If you look, most of the comments from a 3d party are things like:

“bump for a great deal, this won’t last long” or
“I’ve seen this car, and whoever buys it will be very happy, I’m jealous”.

By turning off the comments, there is no way to protect fellow members from someone out to make a quick buck. Selling a car to a fellow club member is kind of like selling to family. We all know that there is no such thing as a prefect 914, and of course if it looks too good to be true, it probably is. As long as everyone makes a sincere effort to honestly represent what they are selling, then they won’t mind comments.

I sold a 911 roller to a guy on Pelican, and now due to personal issues, he’s reselling. His ad is horrible, and I’d love to chime in and fill in the blanks, but I can’t reply to the post. Too bad, it’s a nice car.

I see plenty of positive third party posts in the classifieds. I say leave it the way it is.

I voted "NO". Even with eBay you can email the seller with questions, though these are not generally seen by the audience (haven't figured out why some are & some aren't).
If a potential buyer has questions that other potential buyers may benefit from, they should be seen. Don't know how to keep "bashers" from interfacing. Of course, the potential buyer could PM the seller, but those results would be blind to the rest of the audience.
My suggestion would be to aggressively chastise the bashers or delete thier posts (sorry Eric). Or......just leave it alone.

it sounds like a double edge sword.....
there are advantages to both ideas...
but i prefer the open forum for for the posts left to potential purchasers....
and save the redundancy of answering the same questions...
but at the same time the needless bashing of products or cars, kinda pisses me off...if you don't have the cash or interest simply don't post.....i guesse a discretion ruling could be implemented.....
my three cents.....thats 2.4 usd cents

if they do get closed to responses make it like the "ebay auctions and 914 stuff" page ,where no one can respond ,not even the poster. and the ad expires after 10 days, then they can repost

no more 12 hr

Can you simply block the offenders?

Sometimes it's good to read what other ask. But yeah just ripping into a car is kinda silly.

The reason that the questions show on some E-Bay auctions and not others is that the seller can choose whether to do so on each reply.

I think they should be locked. At least for cars.

Most forums people make comments about the cars or bikes without any real knowlege of the car or bike (or in some cases values in general)

Make it so that the seller can edit or reply, that way if they get repeated questions they can edit.

If somebodys ad is really out of line, just PM them... Realistically, just because one person thinks the price is high, doesn't mean it really is.

Eric nailed the thoughts I had on this exactly...



The moderators already put in a lot of their own time, but... IF they don't mind, I think the best solution is for them to police it. If someone posts something inappropriate, delete the post and PM them, pasting in some text that explains what they did wrong. Hopefully the problem will be reduced to the occasional newbie.

Sounds like that forum should have a nailed and locked topic that lays out the rules (like the parts forum has).

I think Slits should be banned from posting.

Ron


I think Ron should stick a stick up his ass.

Slits

Listen you uneducated bastard son of Joseph Smith, you never contribute anything but trash and it has to come to an end.

Ron

Oh stick it you lizard weenied do-gooder. Nobody needs your opinion on anything. Why don't you just ban yourself from this site before I come over and kick your ass?

Slits

Bring it on little fella. I'll tie one hand behind my back an still kick your ass. Hell, I might even let the salmon crowd take care of my light work.

Ron

Well, if you're gonna take that direction, I'm just gonna stop posting and leave this non-club.

Slits

Too late asshole, I left before you.

Ron

No you didn't.

Slits

Yes, I did

Ron

I think I've seen this responce twice and agree that there should be a button to check allowing responce from others or lock it for none. Leave it up to the seller.

time for dinner... UUUuuummmm Ribs!

....b

I voted NO.
If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.
Internet discussion board are always sure to have smart @$$ comments and trash talk. Pelican is a parts business so thier web experience should be more professional. If half the car sellers did thier research they would post lots of photos of the trouble spots in the first place and avoid all the poking and prodding by the regular tire kickers. If no replies were allowed in the parts section it would be very bad...some people don't use PMs so, umm, whatever

If I get a PM on a bad post... I act. No problems. In fact, I already went in a did some cleaning. I didn't notice anything really bad... I've yet to really get into the cars posts though.

Keep it open. I hate that Pelican has shut theirs off to the "seller" only. It allows for general questions about the car to be aired for all and for all to benefit. It also helps form a better sense of the car for sale, even if no one has seen it personally other than the seller as well as gives a better sense of the seller. How he/she responds on the web could be indicative of how they respond in person. Who wants to give their money to an A$$ ? . Risk=Reward=Sale

Can the poster have the option of allowing responses and/or deleting bashing comments?

I voted NO, I do like the idea of it being moderated or have the option of cleaning it up...the responses that irk me just as much as the negative comments are "I wish I could buy it if I had the money" or posts just as useless as that

I voted no! I like the fact that we get the chance to ask questions in the open forum. Most 914 owners have more experience than me & ask better questions. This way I benefit from their experience. Generally everyone here is pretty cool about things. On the ocasion they are not it's pretty easy to tell if people are just bashing. I think we can police it pretty well ourselves & Eric is doing a good job of that. If people have a problem with what someone is selling something for PM them. You don't need to air your opinion on something you haven't seen. Maybe that person is just a little inexperienced & didn't realize the market. A simple PM to them may fix the problem. I pretty much like it the way it is- Jamie

It does not matter how I voted, what maters is I voted.

Okay I think that maybe you should have the a nice rule that allows reply for general questions, but be moderated. I think that if I was a seller, I know my 914 would be bashed to hell on this board. Yeah it is a POS, but it is L20E which matches cones really well. And I don't care that it has a few bumps or bruises, I only care that it drives its wheels off. But to sell it for what it is worth to me would cause a back lash of west coaster, though it is a 5K car here in Rust belt Ohio, in CA it is worth 850 if I am lucky, and only because it has a running 2.0L, and a bunch of trick suspension goodies, and a 904 gauge.

I think maybe if legally it could be considered as slander then, it should not be posted. (Against the person or the object) If it is just a general question or a response to a question then let it roll. It only helps the market in the long run. If you have a true case of somebody selling a hogs ear as a silk purse Eric should step in and moderate - just gave you more work Eric - sorry. Like any society you have people abusing the system. Hell my in-laws are that way, they will sell a car for gold, but want to buy it for !

Take care, Stephen

My vote is to make them read only. Motivated people will still offer their comments in the garage, just like they do about ebay cars for sale, and it will deter those who have nothing better to do than malign a listing by way of a simple quick reply.

Buying/dismissing a car (or an expensive part for that matter) just on the basis of how the seller describes it (or based on a comment from someone who may have an axe to grind) is a bad idea anyway. Caveat Emptor.

YES....

I've seen too many times that the cars/owners get bashed and/or off-topic discussions begin....

Move the discussions to the garage, just like we do with eBay ads....

I have purchased several parts from fellow members and rarely post directly to the ad. I send a PM to the owner and we discuss condition, payment, shipping, etc.

I know the admins are busy, but I think they should check all of the ads for content, condition, price, pictures, etc...

-- Rob

no.... we can self police our selves. we have done it in the past and we'll still do it. sometimes i feel that things are over priced, but it's their stuff, if it doesn't sell, they'll get it or not. as for bashing, this is always a problem just look at the thread on the "lawn mower" [i think it looks better than chalon kits], but that's my opinion, it's not limited to the club, it goes across e-bay, the samba and C/L, and it's not some thing that will go away. but we have to be more "polite" to our own here

I voted NO. I also have purchased a non running 914 600 miles away using the 914club classified. Was I happy. Yes and no. The buyer should always be wary when buying anything they can't inspect themselves. PPI is cool but sometimes the view can be very different from what is expected by your own eyes.

I feel spending $$$$ for a classified item allows me some merit to say that replying by online posting is essential between seller and buyer so that what is written can be seen by others and that is in the right part of the 914club, the classifieds. Doesn't really stop a buyer from getting stung but some sellers may be inclinced to be more honest if it is discussed openly.

MikeCool

but if you were able to give the threasd starter the option to disallow replys - that would be cool. If you can do this please set default to waht ever the majority votes : )

I think on the whole, the ads work great just the way they are. Which is essentially a No vote. However I have noticed one person in particular who posts every time someone wants to sell an engine saying what are the compression readings? What is the leakdown percent? This person can't be buying every engine that comes up for sale in the classifieds right? So if he is not in the market for an engine then why post to the ad? He has essentially made the classified ads a forum. I should note that I have never tried to sell an engine so this is an observation not a complaint. This is only one example of this... I have also seen a number of people jumping in and saying I got mine for free or in other ways diminishing the percieved value of what the seller is trying to sell. For these reasons, it might be a good idea to allow the seller to make the ad read only or delete comments made by non-buyers who post to the ad.

I guess for your average 914 like most people own or that are for sale, being able to respond to an ad makes some sense. But on an ad for an all original, low mileage, museum quality car it doesn't make sense for someone that has only ever owned a daily driver to post negative comments. Just like I can't relate to the people on this site that are looking for a used master cylinder to install on their 914. We give these same people the ability to post their comments about an all original museum quality car. That's scary!!!!

kind of like ebay. Bidders cannot post directly on the ad's. But the seller can put in the bidders questions/comments to the ad if he/she wants to.

Read only, if people have Q's, they e-mail, call or PM.

I can't stand when people post opinions on the classifieds. It makes me wanna say "STFU and either buy it or move on."

I see by my vote that I am the minority.

Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one and some are bigger than others.

Sorry but I've given up on the club classifieds. I don't even advertize in them anymore...don't need the hassle. Too many tire kickers and trolls. When I go to sell off the stuff I don't need I'll ebay it.
I think you can guess how I voted.
'nuff said.

M

Well said!

If there is a common question that the seller continues to receive, they can post the answer in the ad.

Potential buyers cannot post to eBay or Craigslist. It's not a forum, its a classifieds section. Only the thread starter should be able to post:

Can we have an "Amen"?

Don't know if this would be a problem, but if folks are critiquing cars unjustly, let the originator have the ability to delete posts on his/her thread.

Spoke

The 914club was founded by assholes for assholes... every time we try to water it down to being like every place else, a little bit of the magic goes away.

Not too long ago someone posted a lovely concours level 914 at what would be a near record price for a 4 cylinder 914. Values have been going up, so why not try for a new ceiling. Well, here at the 914 club we are notoriously cheap, just ask Jake Raby. So when the inevitable comment came regarding $29k for a four banger, the third party poster got offended and in turn insulted about 90% of the members here. In the end, the original post was deleted and everyone played nice the second time around. That's what socialization is all about, it's how kids learn to play nice in the sandbox together.

All I'm saying is that people get too worked up. Everyone should loosen up their panties (salmon colored or not) and enjoy the ride.

This isn't ebay, it isn't Craigslist, it isn't Pelican, and it sure isn't the local paper. Those options are still available for anyone who chooses to use them. The 914club classifieds are a free service, what's the big deal?

Now that deserves a HEARTY AMEN

Damn!.... I can't even piss off slits....I'll have to try harder next time.

I voted yes. Here is my reasoning:

Personally - I prefer it if people don't say they want to buy something in the ad thread.... I'd rather they PMed me because then I'll actually see it.

Discussion in an ad thread is kind of wierd - if you are warning against a seller or a product - that's of general community interest and probably should be discussed in the open.

Just my 2c.

some classifieds need more info so we ask for it but it should be limited to the product been advertised

I voted yes. Because baba,ba, bababa....

I voted NO, they get all clogged up with idle chit chat about that looks great where did you get it,or
I think there should be guidelines that everyone who posts must read first and agree to.
A hot rod site that I visit will pull your ad if you decide you don't want to play by the guidelines.
Do we have an admin who monitors the classifieds, it doesn't appear that there is one, I thought it was Lawrence??
CCLINADORNOAD

I'm mostly retired... but I do clean up titles and purge the old stuff when I can.

Eric Shea is doing a pretty good job in there. If something is becoming a trainwreck, PM one of us.

-Rusty

I voted no.........

too often ads are written describing a sows ear as a silk purse.

With out the ability to point out something or ask questions this place becomes Ebay/Craigslist.

The ability to have it pointed out that is wrong with something is what sets us apart from the others.

If a newby buys a turd that is listed as a prime car/part and there is no way to point out it is a turd, that reflects on us as club members for not pointing it out.

Remember that we have a smiley named after one seller who was a ripoff....... or how many times has someone been interested in a car that turned out to be a rustbucket when a PPI was done?

Without the ability to post we loose the premis that this place was founded on....a vendor neutral board

Hm. K, so I"m simplistic. And perhaps commercial. And all I can really do is ask questions.

1. Do the sellers give the club a cut/commission for giving them a site to sell their car? (I'm guessing "er... nope") (if you_are_smart() goto end;)

2. Is this not the best site, in terms of talent and observation, for assessment of 914 parts/cars/memorabilia? Is there not a reputation to up hold?

3. Are there not other so-called "blatant sales" sites where you can post your perhaps-fact-free desctiption of your vehicle-for-sale? Do we need another one?

So, I think the answer is to charge commission. I'm sure there's a calvin&hobbes cartoon to cover this. Or a MASH episode.

end:

kim.

I think commentary in the classifieds is valuable. I agree with whoever said, "if sellers can't stand the heat...". If a seller posts an honest ad they won't get shit from other members. If members post something inappropriate then it should be policed and deleted.

If a seller wants a no comment ad they can go to ebay and pay for the service.