I know this

Woof!

Pg 63 Sept 2006 Pano

Smart Racing Products $219.98
moves wheel back 2.2"


I might get one too.

KT

Been looking into this for quite some time.

http://www.getnrg.com/ come recomended & are pretty cheap $100 ish. JP you can get one locally from Race Dezign down on TV highway.

However the huge turn off for me was the horror stories of folks having wheels coming off in the hands during a event!!!

Plus the basic momo adapter,another 2.5 inches

http://www.paragon-products.com/
very nice one (I have an identical one)
no slop, very secure

you can also check http://www.goingsuperfast.com

I started a thread on this on the bird board (911 or racing section?) a few months back. I have both a ~$70 netami ball type, and a $15 NRG ball type (both from ebay). They have ZERO play. Both are identical in construction (they even interchange). I remove the "street" safety button by simply taking a small set screw out. About 2" thick. Hub + QR + dished wheel is like 8" of extension for the E30 racecar - I darn near sit in the back seat of that thing.

For the 914 where I need it to be as thin as possible, I made my own hub adapter from an old steering wheel. Drilled out the rivets to get the spline part off the wheel and make a thin adapter to adapt to a momo hub patten. Then I can use the 2" QR and a flat wheel (momo prototipo) and still have it all fit.

FWIW, There is the dual pin type that jack olsen uses but requires two hands to remove and isn't a simple "pull collar" type setup. But, its very thin if the application requires it. Also very expensive.

FWIW2, Any of the hex or spline units will either have play or will develop it. The ~$200 sparco one sucks.

SMD

I was supposed to be looking into this one for JP...here is what I was thinking about getting:

LTB QUICK RELEASE SPLINED BLACKThis is our new design quick release, it is the best we ever had, almost no play at all and very tight mechanism, it will extend the steering wheel closer to the driver by about 3" Will work on any MOMO or Sparco steering wheel & hub.

Sale price: $99.00


Anyone have any experience with this one?

-Britain

That one is designed for a Boxster/996. You would have to do as Stephen said and cut the back out of an old steering wheel and bolt this to it.

OR.. bolt this to you current wheel adater... HUM.. that could work..

For 99.00 I would try it. Just make sure it has multi spline and not a 5 sided setup with a ton of slop.


B

It will have slop - they even admit it Im tellin ya, the best one you'll find is a ball type. I got mine for $22.44 delivered from ebay (watch out, some guys charge a ton of shipping). You'll need to buy or make a hub adapter for anything you buy.

Edit: I bought both my steering wheels from LTB. They have good prices on momo stuff. I think they're return policy is crap else I would have tried their QR.

SMD

momo with smart quick
cut stock wheel(same bolt pattern as momo) with smart quick and spacer for nut.

I have the LTB setup with the 5-sided hex.... yes, there is play, but not too much. The spline is better for play, but doesn't extend the steering wheel back as far (at least when I bought it). It bolts straight to the Momo hub and the steering wheel to it. Very simple and very effective.

Keep the lash in perspective... there's a rag joint in your steering system..... and there are horrendous angles that the u-joints are forced to take because of the center steer setup. This designs decistion create more issues (torque and rack speed variation) with your steering than that small amount of lash.

Kevin,
I would agree w/ you on the issue of steering accuracy. What drives us absolutely crazy is that even if there is a tiny amount of axial play, the steering wheel will "click" over any bumps or shimmy. We can also pick up a little vibration on a long run (as the wheel goes out of balance as it wears). The rapid ticking both audibly and tactilly drives us nuts. It doesn't bother some peopler though. Not a performance problem at all, but just really annoying.

FWIW, The porsche factory RS/RSR QR is trick (and $$$). If you've never seen it, its an oval stem w/ a slight wedge shape. Looks like a really simple mechanism to lock it into the hub and compensate for wear w/ no play. I think most modern car steering shafts & U-joints have that wedge shape, so thats probably where they got the idea.

SMD

I feel no axial lash, but there is some radial lash. I have never noticed it on the track and I do consider myself pretty dialed in to steering issues.....since steering, ride and handling tuning is how I earn my living.... I'm not trying to sound snotty, but maybe that click is from something else???? maybe your pinion to rack lash is a bit too high?

I'm curious about your wheel imbalance over a long run.... is this endurance racing? I do get wheel imbalance as the tires pick up clag (thanks, David Hobbs for that term), but it goes away once I get that crap off the tires. Never had a click from my steering associated with tire imbalace.............but I never run longer than 40 minutes or so, which may explain why I never see the issue you're talking about.

Are you referring to the universal joints?

I'm hoping you are not running the rubber "bisket"


B

I am running the bisket.....ummm.. I like bickets.

Actually, I'm unfamiliar with any options and haven't found the need to replace it with something else. It does add some compliance in the system....but reduces some potential binding....

I have driven 914's with and without. The without worked the best for me. I liked the "Go Kart" reaction on the wheel.

The top shaft can be bolted directly to the shaft coming out of the rack. Same bolt spacing. This does make your splines "crooked" for lack of better a term.. (real scientific I know..LoL) but that is an easy fix.

Not sure how you are setting your bump steer, but this really works well if you have moved the rack up. The "bisket" is the same thickness as the rack spacers. I would imagine you are doing it out at the wheel, but you understand what I'm talking about.


B

To clarify.

I have to admit I didn't try the ball bearing type, but I have had splined ones (5 splines and more splines)
still like this one best

no slop and least chance of coming off by accident or failure
yes, you need both hands to unlock it, but that's not an issue for me
another advantage is that you can only put your wheel on in one way, so it's always in the right position

Biskit?

Biscuit... I think... I kept looking at that spelling and couldn't figure out how it was supposed to be spelled....speeling ain't my best thingy.

Good info Brad... never thought to change it because I'm happy with my steering, but it's certainly something I could run a back to back on.

My rack is raised. Since I tossed the front subframe in favor of my weirdo front suspension, I had to do something to mount the rack. So I made a mount and raised it at the same time.

I guess he means the 'hockey puck' that mounts between the steering rack and the steering shaft

I've heard them called "rag joints" more often than anything else. I believe a long time ago they were more rag than rubber and cloth.

Brad that is good info, I never thought about changing the rag joint biscuit, brisket out, would solve a minor issue I have. Looks like I will be under the car tonight.

Groot, don't feel bad I can't pesll either. I figured you would have the bump-steer adjustment out at the arm and hub. But then you probably figured it out and just built the proper amount into your chassis mount. I can see that also, one less thing to break, and force to contend with, on a longer tie-rod bolt.

I currently run 930 tie rods, but have been thinking about replacing the inner ball joint and going back the the stock U mount on the bar. I figure I could add washer in between a spherical rod end and have some bump (more precise) adjustment. Than the Weltmeister spacer gives. At a fraction of the cost of the Elephant Racing version. If I needed more, I could have a new set of U's made up to allow for larger range of motion.

I could be wrong here, I usually am.

Groot,
Yes I meant radial play. When going from L to R there is a small gap.

The wheels sometimes go out of balance over a weekend. ~2hrs of track time for us usually. I haven't done it before, but there is a 3hr enduro in Feb. W/ Fri practice & a sprint on Sat, we might put 5+hrs or so on the car. Definately enough time to wear off some rubber and throw the balance off. When we move tires around (to even out wear) it often goes away. I've never bothered to take a used tire back to the shop to rebalance it though...

BTW, I think porsche and BMW both call them "guibos". Thats the official term for the rubber donuts in the BMW driveshafts and I think Porsche also used it for the ones they put in the 935 Ti halfshafts. I've always wondered if it was some german manufacturer brandname but it now used like Kleenex for all similar products.

914forme,
Thats brilliant. I see no problem w/ it. If you need more adjustment, why not just bend the arms 'closer' and use the shims for fine tuning. Cheaper than 930 tie rods too...

SMD

Ah, the rubbery disc like in a VW Beetle steering shaft? I didn't know the 914 had those too. Never had one apart that far.

Is it easily removable?

Mike T

guibo!

BMW used them on 2002 driveshafts also!!!

so if we remove the guibo/biscuit/hockeypuck/rag joint will we need a spacer? or do we just rotate the uppershaft 90 degrees and bolt em together?

any mods required to eliminate the guibo? (other than recenter the steering wheel)