2 questions -
1) will they fit under 15" fuchs?
2 ) i know they are 3.75" spacing....and you can slot the ears to fit on a 3.5" strut... would an adapter be feasible to mount them to a 3" spacing strut?

I believe so... I have a set here. I can try a mockup mount and see.

I'm contemplating mounting options as well. Let me know what you come up with.

Eric

they seem like a nice alternative to boxtsers...

the adapter is what the hitch will be...

and i bet you need to make them sit further inboard on the rotor... they are deisgned for a 298mm rotor

Do you mean "Baby Brembos"? The 4 piston black ones that say PORSCHE. I thought the 951 fuchs were a little bigger to accomodate those brakes.

see part num 951.362.115.00 on http://members.rennlist.com/911pcars/WheelWts.html

Of course that might refer to the Turbo S calipers or M030 calipers. I guess this begs the question, which 951 calipers? There is 2 or 3 versions.

EDIT: The 1986 turbo was the only one with early offset wheels, so those fuchs would have to be for that car. Also, I "think" that car would have had the baby Brembos. TurboS didn't show up until 1988 and I am not sure when M030 package was available. Of course the 914 has smaller rotors so....... I guess the only way to know is to try. I'm sure Eric will be able to give you a good idea.

yep... black 4 pots.... 3.75" spacing

I am sure they would need a spacer.
I have the 951 brakes on my car but am using the 951 16"x 7 and 8 rims,
I have both the Fuchs and Phone Dialers. I think they fit the 15" diameter just barely but will need to be spaced out from the hub.
I am using the calipers with the 84 Carrera rotors.

I have a set up front - had struts modified by Rich Johnson 'bout 10 years ago to fit the 3.75" spacing. Imagine that would be an option for 3" struts as well, if he still provides that service. He told me at the time that 15" fuchs would not fit. They're tight under 16" fuchs, so I'm inclined to believe him.

yes, ran them on my old car. I ran 15x8's all the way around. Ran with a 15mm spacer to kick track out more, not for clearance.

I have 944 turbo calipers all the way around.


The fronts have to be redrilled to fit the 3.5" bolt spacing. The rears had to have a custom mount fabricated.

No, the 15" wheels will not fit over the calipers. The 16" wheels are a tight fit.

what are you doing for a P brake? (911 ebrake right?)

what about the adapter idea to mount them more inward on the rotor...

boxster calipers fit under 15"... these are smaller..... seems like an easy equation

an adapter that goes from 3" spacing to 3.75" and puts the caliper more inward on the rotor...

big VOLVO 4 pistons fit.... again.. bigger than these 951 calipers

Park brake.... Starfleet issue tractor beam...

Actually it's a 911 P-brake with custom made cables.

The mount holes are redrilled on the calipers, which sets them inward some. Plus to get them to fit, you have to use 911 Carrera rotors, which won't fit under 15" wheels. I guess if you offset drilled the holes even farther inboard, you could use stock 911 vented rotors.

Boxster rotors are different, and the mounts are custom fabricated to make them fit under the 15s.

I hate to tell you this, but the volvo calipers have the wrong offset and diameter to work with 911 rotors. I know... I tried them. Plus they are cast iron, and are really heavy.

BS on the carerra rotors.... i know lots of them under 15" wheels. they are WIDER not larger OD. you use these with boxster calipers also... and they fit under 15".. and yes.. custom adapter and AXIAL mount....

I know all about the volvos.. sitting on my shelf FOR that reason.. heavy? loaded is lighter than a 911 A caliper!! LOL (but yes still heavy)

i think it can be done. im going to do it i think. Bracket wont be tooo hard.. ill ahve someone cad it up in solidworks for me....
and i think i know where i can *BOrrow* a 911m strut/hub/rotor from

how did you do the rears? welded on a new mount with 3.75" spacing?

AA

I cut the mounting tab completely off the trailing arm. Then I made a new one that matched the bolt pattern for the 944 turbo caliper. I used a junk caliper that I took the pistons out of, then drilled the backs of the piston holes. I threaded the holes and put long bolts in them. A set of used pads enabled me to clamp the caliper on the rotor, and a set of digital calipers allowed me to check that the brake caliper would be centered on the rotor. Then I tack welded them to the trailing arm. I took the jig caliper off, and removed the rotor, and welded the mounting plate in place.

What sucks is that I got the caliper a little higher on one side than the other.


But with a 23mm master cylinder and cross drilled rotors, I have what Betty refers to as "Hand of God" stopping power. Plus the brakes impress the rice boys......



If I were going to do it again, I would use Boxster Monoblocks. Easier to install, and less fabrication.


Or use a Brembo Big Red kit for all 4 wheels (pricey). It would bolt on with no fabrication.

fun!

im going to buy a pair and play with em... i know someone who just bought some 911M struts i can probably borrow for mockup and adapter design....

hmmm... i like the rear weld on idea....

gee... dirk wright

M struts won't work, but you are welcome to try.... BTDT.


And the weld on tabs were a real PITA to make.

i beg to differ... adapter... no slotting of calipers required...

the rear will be saved for a rainy day..... as i will most likely do it at teh same time as 911 ebrake...

AAron - No offense, but if Clay can't figure a way to make work, that's worth going to the trouble to get it done -

I very seriously doubt you can -

My money would be on Clay any day for that pissing match...

That cause you have never seen Aaron in Red high heels.

T

But I have seen him in Neverland.....

ill know more at mockup.... but this is what i have in mind....

i think it can work

pardon the drawing.. its late.. and it aint solidworks time LOL
Click to view attachment

the curve on the mounting ears of the caliper has me thinking all of the corners on the adapter will need to be beveled...
Click to view attachment

Aaron,

I dont think your going to have enough room on your adapter plate for the holes. Measure it out 3 inch on center and 3.75 on center. Not enough material.

I wouldn't slot any of the mounting holes. Weld more on and then drill it.

For the rears, I think we have some blank plates around. They have the right radius on the bottom and will weld right on. Not sure if they are drilled yet. Aaron - shoot me a PM if you interested in some.

Brian's right. That step you have in your drawing will be about 1/16th" thick. (or about 1/16th of what yur skull is... now read what Matt just posted and get to work!)

yeah.. just thought about that... so the caliper will have to be reclocked just a bit...
(drawing inbound...)

OK.. so this gives ample room for BOTH sets of holes, and reclocks the caliper a little... (another way of making it sit further onto the rotor, and a better fit under a 15" fuch)

I don't think I'm getting this. With the adapter peice, is it going to be a flat piece of steel? If so, then you're offset some amount. Is that what you're trying for to center on the rotor?

If it's not flat, I would be worried about the thickness of it where it jogs inbetween the holes.

I thought about a couple ideas like this when I did mine and just decided it was easier to cut the old brackets off and put on new ones.

milled piece of steel or AL...

the side view shows the profile (top right) ... keeps the caliper in the same plane as if it were mounting directly to the ears.....

Unmachined thickness would be (thickness of strut ears)+(thickness of caliper ears)

good point on the thickness of where it *jogs*

i guess space the holes further from each other to mitigate that...

(updated drawing for clarity)

A quick sketch on an envelope and it may work. The ultimate answer is how it looks with the trailing arm and caliper in front of you. May be cheaper/easier though to just weld if you don't have a mill to do it on.

this is for the front at the moment,,,

you are spot on with the rear... gonna have to weld a tab on like you reccomend...

the above is for a bolt on adapter solution for the front of a 3" M strut

I would recommend a welder that is VERY familiar with cast iron. There are two methods. Hot and cold. I do NOT do my own cast welding. I take it to a pro.

These are brakes we're talking about.

no welding up front.... bolt on adapter (milled steel or AL)

welding tabs onto the rear like clay mentioned.... (trailing arm isnt cast... and neither is the brake caliper tab that is getting welded on)

That section of the trailing arm is cast. I see them in my sleep.

hmmm.. interesting twist....

Clay/Matt - have welded tabs on their ears... maybe they will chime in.

Eric,

Are you sure they're cast? They look forged to me, but I will stand corrected. They are, afterall, weled to the mild steel tubular section of the trailing arm.

Andys

I'm sure people have done it. I've even seen pictures. Google "Welding Cast Iron" though... you need to make sure it's done right. It can be done. I'm just saying, it's not a backyard welder type activity for a brake mounting ear.

I can weld but I won't weld this. My guy does it one strike at a time and, it's very specific with regard to material and heat.

Just throwing more info out there...

Been running them under 15x6 Fuchs on a 3.0 powered 914 for 5-6 years now. Started with Carrera Bilstein struts. Re-drilled the calipers and ran a Carrera 24mm rotor.



B

You can easily weld to the cast portion of the control arm. They used good steel back then.


B

The various sections of the control arm are forged and welded together. The section (bearing carrier housing) with the mounting ears "is" cast.

Again, I'm not saying it "can't" or even "shouldn't" be done. I think it's the best way to go for this mod. I'm just saying have someone who "really" know's what they're doing do it.

I can't think of anything more important than having brakes on a car

I know for sure Clay is right about 944/T brakes not fitting a 15" wheel.
I have a buddy that does this mod for bugs all the time.

Clay is also right on about the monoblocks.

My buddy...His name is Lanner, brake conversions are about all he does.

http://www.vdubengineering.com/

The steel is good. We've had success welding other cast Porsche items. Just make sure you use the proper "cool" technique. I don't think the hot technique is really feasible.

Again, this is not a backyard MIG job.

Eric,

The bearing carrier could simply be low carbon cast steel, rather than cast iron (which I would consider unsuitable for this application). Welding cast steel is quite a bit easier.

Andys

Just an update... The welding on the rear trailing arm ends up with the tab farther inboard. So when you weld it on, it attaches behind the factory weld where the bearing carrier attaches to the trailing arm. You end up not welding the cast iron, but the steel behind the bearing carrier.

And I looked at the adapter thing, the mounting tab will not allow enough clearance to clear the bottom edges of the pads with an adapter plate, front or rear. Even the monoblocks with the adapter blocks have to have the inboard pad milled off slightly to clear the factory 914 caliper mount.

I think Clay is right about the welding. I can take a look at my car tonight when I swap wheels around.

Either way, if it is cast *iron* it is harder to do than just being cast steel. I can't imagine they used regular cast iron. With the way people describe hammering on wheel bearings.....

I really think it's cast steel, not your typical cast gray iron like the brake rotors...

brad says they fit. (has proof?)
Boxster monoblocks are like WAY bigger.. and they fit (under FUCHS and COOKIES)

The adapter will reclock it a few degrees and will offset the mounting holes inward to sit deeper on the rotor, and clear the rim....

How does you knowz without a caliper in yur hand? They can only sit down so far before the rotor rubs on the inside of the caliper. You could then mill the rotor but...

Get out your grinder when you go to fit the pads. They WILL hit the mounting tabs for the 3" mount on the spindle.

BTDT....

TIG welded in my garage for the RS

Trailing arm with modified mounting tab for 944 turbo calipers.

BEEFY!

Click to view attachment

I like that...

:drool: 930 calipers!