I've read up a little on powdercoating, and it sounds like it would be real handy to be able to do myself. I know a few of you folks have done it, so I wanted to ask :

1) How bad is the smell (while curing) ? I'm thinking of doing smaller parts in a small electric oven indoors, but under a dedicated vent hood. Sound reasonable ?

2) What does it smell like ? Burning plastic ?

3) Does the smell really linger afterwards, or does it go away with decent air circulation ?

4) How satisfied are you with your results ? Did it take much practice before parts came out looking acceptable ?

5) I'm planning (if I do this) to get the Chicago Electric (Harbor Freight) unit. I know their stuff is crap, but don't plan on using it all that often. Anybody have good/bad experiences with this unit ?

Its really easy to do.
I would only do it outdoors. The smell gets pretty bad in my garage.
The first piece I did turned out great. Surface prep goes along ways.

I have the harbor frieght unit and it works great.

I say go for it but do it outdoors. And you can never use that oven for food again.

So if I was to do this in my backyard/driveway is it gonna stink out the neighbors ? Or does the smell "blow away" pretty quickly ?

Also, if I shoot the powder at work (where I've got air, bead blasting, etc.) can I transport the pieces home to cure ? Or does the powder just fall off if not cured right away ?

Your neighbors really shouldnt be affected by the smell. I would say my oven puts a cloud out about 10 ft in diameter when I open it up. Its not too bad.

That would be tricky to move the pieces with powder on them. I had something on a piece once, went to lightly blow it off and the powder came off too. Its only a static charge holding it on.

BTDT It's extrememly easy to get excellent results. It does smell; I wouldn't want to do it inside the house. It's not going to offend your neighbors though. Bring something you want coated up to my house sometime and we'll coat 'n cook it. I have an Eastwood powder coat unit and a standard household oven in my garage. The oven $15 bucks at a garage sale down the street.

I use the Eastwood kit as well. Works great. I think the smoke and smell comes from the parts not being too clean or dirty ovens because mine smokes very little. I media blast everything first though. Without the media blast, it is sometimes difficult to get the part clean enough and you might get so-so results. With the media blast, you get a great bond and finish.

Make sure you use a seperate oven and don't do it in the house. I got a free oven from a house doing a remodel. If you go to the dump, there is ususally a pile of appliances to pick through.....

You have to coat and go immediately to the oven with a clamp or hanger of some sort. The powder is barely sticking to the part and in fact a blast of air will take it off until baked. In fact, if you touch the powder, you'lle take it off.

I have a wire attached across the top inside of the oven to hang parts from and a sheet metal tray on the bottom for larger parts.

I have the harbor Freight kit and have used it many times. For me, since I'm not using an oven, getting the cure times and temperatures has been a little tricky, especially on big pieces. I did however get excellent results on my Subaru engine support bar which would never fit in a conventional oven. I use a propane powered space heater and some sheet metal to try to reflect/contain the heat. Typically I do it in my garage with the door open and wear a respirator. The smell really isn't that bad and doesn't linger at all.

-Tony

Okay, thanks for the info. I'm still thinking it over (that's half the fun) but it for my situation the HF unit sounds like the way to go. I already have a small (1 foot cubed) oven from a chem lab (not the kind of thing you'd wanna stick a pizza in !) and the shop at work has a pretty substantial vent hood - we do a lot of spray painting in there already. So I'll start with something small and see if the smell is a factor.

When it comes time for bigger stuff, I'll rig up something with metal scraps and clamps. A normal oven woudn't work so well for me; I need something I can break down and store out of the way. Tony, I looked back at your setup and saw how, uh, simple it is ! Are you running near 100% of what that heater can put out ? I've seen similar-looking heaters rated at 12-30k BTU. If that works in a wide open setting, I'm thinking a much smaller heat source would work in an enclosure. One thing I've been thinking about is electric baseboard heaters. I remember seeing used ones for dirt cheap at an architectural salvage shop. I think each section puts out around 3k BTU. The advantage (for larger parts) is that the radiation source is much more spread out, so there wouldn't be much non-uniformity. Also, b/c it's electric, it would be easy to control w/ a thermostat. Another thing I'm pondering is using ceiling tiles (suspended ceiling panels) to stack around the outside for insulation. I think they've got resonably high insulation values and are also very heat resistant.

just let me know when you get it jeff.

I usually use the heater at max output, though after the initial outgassing, I usually turn it down a bit. Also varying the distance to the heater helps.

Bondo (Royce) has built an electric oven. He had to put fiberglass insulation inside to get enugh insulation though. I think he used a heating element from an electric convection oven. The oven is about 5 feet tall and 4 feet wide, made from that 2 inch thick metalized foam insulation. That wasn't enough, so the fiberglass was added.

Just get the gun and play around with it. Its a lot of fun. Ambient humidity definitely affects the performance though. Humid days dissipate the electric field quickly and your ratio of powder on the part to powder on the floor goes south. Of course I live 2 miles from the beach so that might make a difference.

-Tony

I have the Eastwood unit, and I use it in an old oven I bought for just this purpose. I installed everything in the furnace room in our house. I shut the door, open a window, and I make nice with my wife. She usually tolerates the smell.

I have found the finish to be good and durable.

Two things I've learned about my powder coating setup.

1. You need an oven of some sort. I built my own with an oven element (from the local repair shop), some heavy duty 220v cable, a 220v switch, a BBQ thermometer, and some rock wool/mineral wool insulation (rated at VERY high temps). Then I used some wood to build a big box. I can do trailing arms/wheels/etc, no problem.

2. Spraying the powder is MESSY and you'll waste a ton. I'm not using my setup again until I can make a permanent spraying station that will contain the powder, as well as allow me to recycle the powder. I'll also probably make it enclosed. My first few pieces had noticeable dust particles in them. The dust floating in the air will be electrostatically attracted to your piece and will show up in the final piece.

Other than that... it's worked great and is really easy.

Duh !
Hmm, what's hot and could be used to make an oven ? Hmm, lets see....
Well, what do they use in real ovens ? That's it ! A baseboard heater !



Good to know.

p.s. Now I'm really wishing I hadn't just painted my wheels.....

I have a regulator on my gun and turn the pressure WAY down to about 8-9 lbs. I shake the gun as I go. Very little waste, certainly not enough to recycle. Are you using a high volume nozzle?

I don't get that much waste either. Not enough to bother recycling.

Mark - Air pressure needs to be pretty damn low and a good solid electrical connection from the gun to the part. Sounds like something's amiss if a large portion of your powder is on the floor. I get *maybe* 10-20% on the floor. Not even enough to bother to try to recycle.

I test the connection by putting the gun close to the part. I get a spark that jumps over 1/2" No spark meens bad connection

I just take stuff to work. We have a powder/liquid test lab and 3 batch ovens with a manual (hand push) monorail conveyor setup. It is mostly for demonstrating the equipment that we sell but that is one of the perks of working there.

Powercoating is easy...

1. You don't need an oven, but it makes things simpler for small parts.

2. There is some overspray (overpowder?). Put good clean plastic sheeting below where you spray, collect the stray powder and put it in a separate bag for later use.

Some jackass did a thread about powercoating... it's in the Classics section here:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=2974

Cheers,
Lawrence

What a Jackass ! Goes a writes a long, detailed thread with pics and good info, and then tells people about it... Sheesh.

But you did win my respect : "I know every damn thing I need to know about this and I don't need no f'n instructions".

BTW, my dad has/had several aunts & uncles who were relocated from their farms when Fort Riley came along. I met them as a young teen, and still remember them talking about "the old home place."

[EDIT : Oops ! I see you're no longer at Fort Riley. Do you miss the old home place ?]

How high do the temperatures need to be to cure it?

How long does it take to cure?

I don't know much about ovens. If I were to get a cheap oven on CL, preferably electric, what kind of power circuit would I need for it? Also, since I would likely install this in my garage, would I need to vent the oven somehow?

400 degrees F, for 20 minutes in an oven. Can take more or less time if you use other heating techniques.



Probably would need 20 or 30 amps 220V, venting is optional especially if you leave the garage door open.

-Tony

Take a little time and you can two tone your items

another

last one

Time at temperature is really up to the powder manufacturer spec sheet.

Different powders take different temps to properly crosslink. Different parts (more or less dense) take more time to get to temperature.

You can undercure powder and it never will obtain full hardness or gloss.

You can overcure powder and it can slightly change color or in really bad cases it can change colors drastically (and not for the good).

Eastwood also sells a bunch of different powders and coating equipment for the hobbiest. Since we sell the equipment, we usually get free samples from powder suppliers. If you know the supplier, you can obtain the spec sheet from them for your specific powder (including curing schedules).

Powder provides a quick durable surface, but I still prefer spraying liquid paints.

I got my last 5 pound box from a local Columbia Coatings distributor. They provided color chip samples and a spec sheet and although I can't remember the specific details their powder has distinctly different cure specs than did the Eastwood powder. Not drastically different mind you, but different all the same.

RTFM

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5915

Found the above on another forum I belong to. Probably says everything that has been said here.

Last time I brought items to the local Powder Coating shop, it was $100 for the pile (2 motorcycle wheels, 1 frame, 1 trailing arm etc)

Same charge for all the other hardware for another color. He beadblasts and deals with mess, I did the masking w/ high temp tape.

What did you guys spend on materials + paint for your home units?

The guns from HF and Eastwood are marked down to $70/$75 respectively. Pound of powder is, what, $8 ? So it doesn't take much to make it worthwhile moneywise. For me, another big issue is the convenience of being able to do a quickie job without having to drive it across town.

But if I did have to take it somewhere, I know where I'd go :

TAINT PAINT

Yup.

Having a parts washer, blast cabinet, powder coat gun and oven in the garage has it's good and bad points.

Part looks great after it's clean out of the parts washer. But that paint isn't so hot. A little corrosion too. Off to the blast cabinet. But then if you paint it again it'll just end up flakin off. Out comes the powder coat gun. Do I have the right color powder I want for this particular part? Next thing you know, a 20 minute parts replacement turns into a week of downtime.

It is cool to be able to do it on a whim. And it isn't difficult or expensive, but can be tedious. For the cost that a lot of places charge for blast and coat, sometimes I just want to have someone else do the work.