The running local joke is that I would put a injected 1.7 in the lightweight car just to have something besides the Boxster to run at AutoX

I can get 2.0's also.. injected.. one fresh.. one "seasoned"


B

Hatfield DID drive!!

We were on grid last year hanging out and BS'ing..

How about a V8 car with a stock GM aluminum headed crate engine??LOL


B

That's cool...I drove by his house about a month ago but I was with the wife and kids so I didn't stop by to see his latest projects....

Give me call....when you can...

I'm curious what does it take to enter this event? While I'm a complete rookie I think I have ability to raise sponsorship, attract drivers and get a car. With goal of driving this event I think I could accelerate my W2W aspirations. This event looks like a blast.

http://www.nasa25hour.com/rules.php

Need a race liscense and 8 races under your belt. entry fees are about $1100 per team. Brad's number of $20k for the event seems about right to me. With a car, 4-5 paying drivers, a volunteer crew, and a bit of sponsorship, it seems very realistic.

btw, grant, i have my '07 race schedule now...

I can get us all in with just 4 races. I have worked with JerryK on this multiple times. He know's "of me" and knows Fordahl VERY well. Our 993 only had 2 NASA licensed peron.. the rest had "pro".. Betim was the only one with a "club" license and he ran NO events in 05 besides the 25hr. race.

It comes down to your experience. Do you have 20+ track days of dealing with other people?? This is the type of stuff they want to know. Recent physical...blah blah.

A few more Kart events for Nathan and NASA would hand him a license with one checkout ride in HPDE Group 4.


I have been through this numerous times with SCCA/NASA/PCA..

POC is the only one that will not cut anyone any slack unless you have a IMSA license...


B

I'll donate my labor to build two 2056s.

I'm not very familiar with the race, are most teams usually out for a few laps doing repairs? Including the winning teams?

Teams hope that the only reason to stop is for fuel, driver and tires.
( maybe front brake pads )

Anything else is a surprise.

A pit stop to do rust repair


KT

We wouldnt need brakes or pads in a 1.7 car!!! LOL

Trek nailed it. Most well prepaired teams dont have major mechanical down time.

In 04 we replaced both rear axles on the Fordahl 993RSR in less than 13min. This is a small miracle!! You have to drop the rear wheel carriers/arms... two teams of three on either side of the car. We actually practiced it knowing damn well the axles wouldnt last for 25hrs.LOL Porsche Motorsports sells "24hr" axles.. they are not kidding..LOL


B

Blasphemer!

I can see it now: "Introducing car #44, a '93 Mazda Miata sponsored by 914world.com"

As far as fuel consumption, doesn't a 1.7L already get good gas mileage in stock form?

20K seems a little high. We were talking about it on the way home from this year's race, and figured it would be about 6K to campaign the M3 Lightweight that we came in 2nd with last year. That is for fuel, tires, entry fees, and doesn't include rooms, food, paying the crew guys anything. That's just getting the car on the track. But I don't imagine the other things could add up to more than a few thousand more.

I hope you guys can get it together. It would be so cool to see a 914 out there!

We brought two LARGE trucks and two large trailers from San Diego. It was over 1k in diesel fuel!! PLUS the RV and fuel.

Race gas was almost 3k.. I dont recall how many 55 gallon drums we went thru @ $5+ PER gallon.

We had a crew of 10. Somebody was "almost" cooking on the grill at all times!!


B

I'm so in to crew...

Send a 1.7 or 2 out to be freshened, carbs, cam... I might even be able to Donate a motor if needed (my old 1.7, if i can get it back cheap enough)

When do we start building?

BJH

I have two cars to choose from. One needs to be welded + poweder coated... assembled. It had no windshield.. Ginther style, but has a legal cage. It needs some minor tube work+some kind of light floorboards.

The other is complete.. it needs an engine. It is the orange car above.

The only "major" thing it needs is a movable seat and wired for radio's.

So.. I can offer two options. Build the one I have with parts I have.. or go with a proven car. It doesnt have all the trick stuff in it like roller bearings and such, but it is a good solid car with only a few track events on it. It still has the stock radio in it!! NO RUST.


B

Ha ha.. keep it simple.. run a single weber progressive 2 barrel carb on a 1.7



B

Mines still FI...

Are the HP gains from a new cam worth going to carbs and losing some MPG??

The whole idea is a throw away engine with NO mods. Just strong/decent with little to NO leaks. Not that big of deal to reseal an engine.

I wouldnt want to fight the carbs for 25hrs. It is super cold each year up there.


B

That's why I say we gather together 2 or 3 1.7's, a few extra 901's, assorted 914 bits and do it the 914Club way...on a budget.

As the club moves more "big time" we'll have an opportunity to build a specific car that can compete (i.e. The Beast™) and to show up with RV's and tractor trailers...we could just show up like we do normally and run in the show. And I say we park the car at night and all go into town for dinner and a movie and sleep in a nice WARM room and bed, then come out the next morning and start running again.

It gives the car a break and if we have 4 to 6 drivers, instead of (3) 2 hour stints each you could either do single 2 hours stints or 2 (1) hour stints. Club members with W2W experience could drive a stint, then become part of the pit crew for the remainder of the event.

We wouldn't have maximum laps, but we'd have a pretty good shot at still being one of the teams still running at the end of the event.

Bill P.

Hum.. where I have heard this before??

Go see a movie with Tony Heyer?? LOL

OK. Done.

Do we have to wait for 08 to run this setup?

I'll license as soon as possible with them.

My buddy Tim asked if I would run a GT3cup car with "914Club" on it back on Monday.. then somebody mentioned "Miata" here with 914club.. funny guy's!


B

Betim sent me a TXT this morning..

Told me to let the forum know that HIS shop prepped the GT3Cup car prior to the event (this is how he paid for his seat in the car)

Obviously a little birdy watching this thread told him we were "chatting" about him.



B

I'm just curious about the drivers paying for a seat. What is the protocol?

Depends on the effort.

Typical seat in a winning effort will be 3-5k per driver depending on how many drivers you want.

Some people bring cash.
Some bring tires
Some bring sponsors
Some supply the car
Some supply the transport
Some supply the crew

The options are limitless.


B

Or do you mean: how do you go about signing up for a seat?


B

Who brings the strippers??

Or is it a BYO sorta thing??

Find the right car, and we could do the 24hrs of lemons, and then the 25 @ t-hill both

BJH

The strippers are brought from Sacremento Sat. night during the race.

Typically we go to Chico... (cause it was ranked no.1 party school by Playboy for umteen years in a row!!!)

The only issue chicks have with attending the event: it is COLD sometimes..

Like this cold... in 2004



B

Didn't mean that. What you said before was what I thought but it kind of sounded like a specific racing term or something.

So basically, the cost to run is shared by drivers if it's an amateur team.

Obviously, I assume, the drivers on the Pro teams are being paid.

*Most* of the time.. the Professional drivers are driving for free. Typically they wont do this unless you have a winning combination ready to go. We floated them 1k each and took care of all hotel/air-fare and such.

They know this is grassroots style.. it is kind viewed as "their" way to give back to the racing community..

Ever wonder how bad ass a Pro is?

Take this into consideration about Randy Pobst:

Our car was stuck in 5th gear.. he was still 3 seconds a lap faster than the Lost in Space drivers. Both cars powered by stock 3.6L engines. I would imagine our car was heavier considering we started with a 993. We where on BIG slicks however!

3 seconds.. stuck in 5th gear. He was laughing on the radio with us because he was being "pulled" out of turn 6 by Miata's..LOL he would catch and pass them again..


B

Your right, we're kind of talking apples and oranges. We had one tripple axle trailer from Marin, a crew of six (all working for free ) and I think we only went through 3+ 55 gallon drums of gas. I can't imagine the cost of gas just for the trucks and tailers from So Cal!

We basically have to move the shop with us..lol

The large trailer carried nothing but spares+wheels+pit equipment. I brought the car up by myself and nothing else in the trailer.

Nevermind I ran to Paul Guards house and bought new friction plates for our ZF limited slip and had Gamroth on the phone trying to get them installed correctly the night before the race..LOL hard to drink beer when your hands are cold...


B

i still say it could be a serious expense, but with enough volunteers and semi-free engines/parts, i could concede it being a 10k effort (minus price of the car). getting an RV (or two) is the only way to go. drivers need cat-naps.

as brad said, from what i've heard, most pros aren't being paid, but their expenses are certainly taken care of. the 25hours ain't grand-am (where pros could earn 5-10k per race).

how quick can we do an engine/transaxle R/R? i'm betting that if we practice, it could take less than 20 minutes. for a 1.7, i don't think we'd need LSD, but short gears would be a help.

Team Kumho/BiggsB/Miller checking in. In no particular order:

The tires were standard 710s. They rocked. First time I ever raced on anything other than Toyos, and I can't believe how much better they are.

The right front took 7.5 hours before it started to fall apart. You can see photos of the RF tire that started to delaminate here:
http://images.miller-motorsports.com/Defau...r=2006%5F25hour
Even with the tire coming apart, the car was still turning 02:12s.

Our budget was WELL under Brad's estimate.
Even if we added in the cost of the car we would still be well under Brad's estimate.

I haven't got the total from the car owner yet, but we were expecting it to be under $1500 per driver for 4 drivers. One driver doesn't have to pay because he is the one who came through with the tire sponsorship. Using Tire Rack prices, the tires (710s plus Victoracers) are worth ~$3200. Without the Kumho deal, we would have run Toyos, and probably had 3 sets, 2 sets of drys and one of rains, same as we ran last year.

I don't know if was the same this year, but last year they were very strict on the "no rookie" thing. One of our guys ended up running to Buttonwillow to run a 4 race weekend just to make sure he had the 8 races covered.

Do 914s really turn 2:25s? 1.7 914s are SCCA ITC cars, and the SFR ITC class runs 2:16-17 over the top of T5. I would think 2:17-18 is well in reach for a well sorted 914 running an endurance pace with the bypass.

Then again, a ITC car would run in E3 class in the 25, so if you would have entered this year, you would have won your class. No E3 cars entered this year, only 3 entered last year.

Tom

We qualified our car last year on the outside of POLE it runs a just a little more to run a 993 Porsche than it does a Miata..LOL



How far off pace was your best driver compared to the best time for a Miata at THILL?? in that config?

B

unfortunately, yes -- an ITC 1.7 914 (about 65 hp to the rear wheels; weight of 2100lbs with driver) would turn 2,25's over the top, maybe 2,20's (at best) with the bypass. if we can run in E3 with a lower weight, then there's hope for more, but still... it's that slow. significantly slower than other ITC cars i've ridden in (CRX; 510). there should be no need to lift going into 1.

congrats on your race!

That's our M3 right behind you!

hell no! that's not an endurance race -- the idea is to survive, not kick back with HBO!

how many do we have that ARE licensed or COULD COMMIT to being lisensed for december 2007?

i could commit if they'd take me (IKF shifter license, and I'd be happy to rent a ride in a race to demonstrate comfort and competency as brad suggested-- but there's no way i can run 8 nasa races next year and keep up with my karting schedule). Brad? Grant? Bill? Randal?

Our best time was a 2:08.526. Last time NASA raced there, the pole was 2:07.2 by Dave Vodden (the CEO of Thunderhill) on Toyos, I believe. It isn't really apples to apples though, his car has a built engine, and ours came from a junkyard. Plus, it's his track

Our RX7 was only 22 rows behind you.

Tom

Thanks for posting, Tom.

It was great watching your team race.





KT

wasnt me. i havent talked to betim since before baja when i spent the day helping prepare a car that got smashed... that was a bummer.

2 weeks after being tossed around in a class one baja crashed at 120 mph the kid goes out and wins the 25 hour in a car he prepared.

Betim is a really good guy and I hang out with him as often as I can.

BTW, I know whats in the old FLM car. Its packed with GT3 R shit and its a quick car. It won 24 hours of daytona back in 03 when they first built it I think. 160k sounds fair to rebuild it, but i doubt its worth that now. Old cup cars go for under 100k with a used motor.

Yeah, but it doesn't have to cost that much more. Look at the Lost N Spaced guys, they had an RV, (maybe 2) and an enclosed trailer. They had a 911 SC on jackstands to rob parts from if they needed to. They were running ES class, so they needed more pit equipment than a car running E0 or below, but I would be surprised if they spent $20K.

We had one RV that belonged to one of our volunteer crew, one rented RV, one Horse trailer that one of the crew guys borrowed. We had a few EZ-Ups. We used 2 open trailers, one parts car that belongs to one of the drivers. We brought the regular spares you would bring for a standard SM race weekend, plus a spare tranny and rear end. We took the same tools that go to each race, plus an extra air compressor, air tools and a welder. We burned ~160 gallons of gas ($640), and 4 or 5 quarts of oil.

A group of 914 guys could put together an effort pretty easily, pooling resources you probably already have and probably keep costs down to ~$5000, maybe less depending on how much you want to spend on crew comfort.

The Honda Fit that ran E3 last year was turning laps in the low 2:20s, they turned 546 laps, which was good enough for 26th place overall and second in class behind a Rabbit GTI Cup/ITB car. 546 laps this year would be about the same place overall, but first in class unopposed.
Thanks, it was a lot of fun.

Tom

So we really should be getting two (or more?) 914s ready for next year so we can claim we swept the class!

Click to view attachment

Get three, then do a formation finish.

Tom

Oh yes!!


Click to view attachment



KT

I hear you Tom. I have been involved with 3 different teams up until this year. In 05 I cooridinated about 90% of the effort. Of course it can be done cheaper, but trying to coordinate and get everything from San Diego costs money.

The LNS guy's are coming from the bay area.. they dont have to bring the shop with them like we do. If they break something.. they "CAN" quit and be home within 2.5 hours. We break something.. and quit.. we wont be home for another 14 hours.

No matter how we spin it.. the LNS guy's have it DOWN.


B