I have a Chevy V-8 in my truck.
I have a Subaru motor in my WRX.
I have a Porsche (VW?) motor in my 914.
When I convert my 914, it will be to a Porsche 6.

I would say its essayer to get a flat 6 to preform well in a 914. Just the nature of the heavier and high torque V8 is where most of the time for me has been spent. I have worked the last year getting things to work correctly while being user friendly along the way. If you don't mind a stiff riding car the V8 is a snap, but if you want the car to be comfortable, well that takes time. I say if you in doubt, go with-out a V8. Once you get the V8 to work well its hard to beat its appeal.

That's a good point. I never even considered resale value. I have sold 4 vehicles and scrapped a dozen or so, of the 4 I sold 3 I liked and they were all promptly destroyed - that really ticked me off. I don't plan on selling my 914 (or anything other car I own) it gets driven until the wheels won't stay on then it gets scrapped or restored.

I think the value of a car really means what someone else will pay for it - look at the crap that sells for mega$$ on that auction show on Speed TV, a half a million for a lousy Dodge!! 125K for a stock automatic trans Chevelle??
I'm sure a 6 is going to bring top dollar but any really nice car will go at a good price to the right buyer. It's not like your going to list your car in the local classified ads to sell it. Your going to find a good home it.

Another thing I've noticed is that there's one consistent knock on all the V8s', Porsche or otherwise... the higher center of gravity. I'd like to point out that the Me109 fighter plane, of WW2 fame, used an inverted V12 w/ MFI. So did several other fighter aircraft. With todays' modern fuel injection systems, why not mount a V8, in a 914, inverted? Sure as solves the high center of gravity problem now doesn't it?

I have a V8 conversion in my car. I am very happy with it I spent a lot of time to do things correctly and to the best of my ability. Its still not finished. As far as higher center of gravity my big ass low in the seat helps offset that .
I bought my 914 with the idea of a V8 conversion. I did not ever consider a six conversion. I would have just bought a 911.
Everyone who builds a car does it for a reason. Love of building, profit, ect.
I think a big six sounds much better than the V8 any day but it dosent have the wow factor on the average guy.
I had my car at a ISCA car show back in Feb. I cant tell you how many times I heard HOLLY #@$% THAT THINGS GOT A V8 IN IT! It seems to impress a lot of people.
I agree that you should build what you want and not cut corners to save money.It cost less to do it right the first time verses redoing it a second time.

David

One word... OIL

BJH

It would be if there wasn't a 3 rotor rotary available

My friend has an old 911 racecar, not too wild, with a carbed 3.0 in it.
He's run 5 years, average 10 race weekends a year, and he hasn't touched the motor except for maintenance.
Show me any V8, Subaru, Mazda, Unimog, Diesel, whatever conversion car that can do that.

Could you please elaborate? As far as I know an upside down V engine no longer needs an oil pan. It has to be fitted w/ a dry sump system to achieve adequate lubrication. All air cooled Porsche 6, 8 & 12 engines, & some 4s', are dry sump so we know that works. What problem would you have w/ oil?

The 6 conversion will be worth more for sure! However, for equal performance it will cost a boat load more too.

Note I am a wierdo... I love porsches. My last build up was a 96 3.6 with all the right stuff but the cost can be insane.

Reality is that to put a 3.6 and all of the supporting parts in without any modification will cost you as much as 17K!

You can drop in a LS1 and get much better performance for about 6 - 7K

note that both of these cost speculations that I can back up with spread sheets do not include trans upgrades.

I do agree that a porsche engine in a porsche is more desirable. However if you want something that can hunt down new Z06's at a fraction of the price the v8 in the only option. It really just depends on your needs/wants.

I have every intention of putting a LS1/LS6 into my car in about a year but for now I am doing all of the supporting systems ... chassis, suspension, brakes, tires/wheels, and body work/flares.

I have pretty much decided to upgrade the 1.7 to a 2.1 for the first year after all of that work is done ... then when finances allow hello v8.

I like all configurations but I want a cobra (early shelby of course) hunter/z06 killer ... If I hit the lotto I could do it with factory porsche parts. Until the magical draw I will just shoot for that sweet 400 hp all aluminum v8 install that weighs in less than a porsche 3.6 6cyl.

Also note that most of the v8 conversions that pop up and bring sad $ amounts are usually porely executed and really go to the cheasy route with a chalon body kit or some other crazyness... (opinion dont flame me if you like that stuff)

My intentions are to stay porsche like in appeareance with fuchs, 916 flares and even chrome bumpers if the price is not to crazy. I even want to keep stock 914 mirrors as I think they look very classy.

I would be more than happy to share all of my price charts if you want them.

Did I mention that I tend to over analyze everything drink beer and hope to communicate it on forums

K&N is currently running an add for their "million mile filter" and it's a Mid 90's Small Block Chevy... Show me a porsche Motor that has done that...

You're talking about a 180hp motor. There is no point in building a 180hp SBC, it costs 50 bucks more to get 300HP w/ the same reliability.

Liking the Porsche motor is fine, but saying it's the ultimate in reliability is laughable.

BJ (And my car is just a lil ole 2liter 4) H

I have personally seen 3 different SBC cars sell for over 40K

Not many 40K converted sixes out there (if any)

Granted these cars are the best of the best, w/ no corners being cut, but to assume a 6 will sell for more is un-educated at best.

BJH

Just implying it takes more than just flipping a fuel injected motor over

Might have saved someone a motor

Have to have scavenging in the cylinder walls to keep the back of the pistons from getting filled w/ excess from the rod and main bearings.

I wont say it's impossible, but it's impossible


I do have a 300HP 2.5L 2-stroke v6 though 10K rpm from a 2stroke, now that is a better sound than a built 6.

BJH

Here's one for you-

http://autoatlanta.com/carsales/9146/91424...9142430257.html

Edit: I agree the cylinders would be bathed in oil & some kind of scavenging devices would have to be used. It is not easy & probably very complicated but it has been done before in WW2 aircraft. Impracticaly expensive? Yes. Impossible? Obviously not.

Ok ... I have watched a couple of mega buck 6 conversions at patrick motorsports that I am sure would fetch well beyond 40K if the owners ever parted with them.

A tried and true purist would never consider the v8. I am sure that PM is not the only game in town building these kind of 914 monsters. However, I know Jim Patrick even bought a well executed v8 914 and he is extremely anal porsche guy!!!


The car I mention was a complete rocket. It is rare to see a car that seems to accelerate visually quick. In other words a lot of cars make a lot of noise and feel like they are moving quickly. Some just feel like they are moving fast. However, for it to be visually quick it has to be extremely fast. TT's, 914 8's, shelby cobra's and a few other cars fall into that magnitude of acceleration...

as far as the 40K six goes - take a look at Joe Obrian's Car. Probably a 60K Six and its a conversion.

Racing! I was talking about racing!
Show me a SBC that will take that kind of RACING.
The SBC is a very reliable street motor. They don't cost much and they last a long time. I've owned lots of them.
I don't think that they will withstand the rigors of racing as well as a Porsche 6 cyl.
Porsche 6's have been competing in endurance races very successfully for a long time. Their history is proven. SBC's have not been sucessfull in 24 hour races, year after year after year.
It's a really good truck motor. I'll say it again. My WRX motor is in my WRX. My Chevy motor is in my Chevy. When I convert my racecar from a 4, I'll put a Porsche 6 in it because it will last.
Why doesn't everyone go start converting 924's? They're practically worthless, and they already have a damned radiator in the front.
I'm tires of people ruining 914's and bragging like it's some noble thing they've done.
I've driven 3 different 914's with a V-8, and all of them were pieces of shit. One was built entirely by Renegade, and it was the biggest piece of shit of the three. It was falling apart after 25,000 miles since the perversion. The shifter was breaking at both ends, the motor mount had been welded twice where it broke, the alternator mount was broken, axle after axle had broken, the conversion plate had broken and been replaced, the coolant hoses underneath the car were abraded and hanging down from rubbing on driveways and speedbumps, the extra bars welded to the bottom of the chassis to "strengthen" it were smashed flat, but I must say, the engine still ran great. It was just every single part connecting the SBC to the rest of the car that was failing.

[


Racing! I was talking about racing!
Show me a SBC that will take that kind of RACING.
The SBC is a very reliable street motor. They don't cost much and they last a long time. I've owned lots of them.
I don't think that they will withstand the rigors of racing as well as a Porsche 6 cyl.
Porsche 6's have been competing in endurance races very successfully for a long time. Their history is proven. SBC's have not been sucessfull in 24 hour races, year after year after year.
It's a really good truck motor. I'll say it again. My WRX motor is in my WRX. My Chevy motor is in my Chevy. When I convert my racecar from a 4, I'll put a Porsche 6 in it because it will last.
Why doesn't everyone go start converting 924's? They're practically worthless, and they already have a damned radiator in the front.
I'm tires of people ruining 914's and bragging like it's some noble thing they've done.
I've driven 3 different 914's with a V-8, and all of them were pieces of shit. One was built entirely by Renegade, and it was the biggest piece of shit of the three. It was falling apart after 25,000 miles since the perversion. The shifter was breaking at both ends, the motor mount had been welded twice where it broke, the alternator mount was broken, axle after axle had broken, the conversion plate had broken and been replaced, the coolant hoses underneath the car were abraded and hanging down from rubbing on driveways and speedbumps, the extra bars welded to the bottom of the chassis to "strengthen" it were smashed flat, but I must say, the engine still ran great. It was just every single part connecting the SBC to the rest of the car that was failing.
[/quote]


Think NASCAR. 90% of them are small block chevys.
How many NHRA Top Sportsman dragsters have porsche engines instead of Chevy?

Sounds like the cars were crap not the motors.

David

Hmmm... I’m confused. In my town every Sunday the TV is lousy with SBC’s doing well in racing. What you admittedly don’t normally see is SBC’s in Porsche cars, and that’s because the rules generally don’t permit. Different make of motor bumps you up into a higher class to compete with tube-famed cars. Since typical SBC conversions don’t show up much at the track because of those rules do they really NEED to be endurance race proven? The engines last on the street, which is where they’re being used, and anyone who’s owned one is well aware how durable they are there. So except to you why exactly is endurance racing important, or even germane to this discussion?


Bragging that they're having fun? Oh no, I'm horrified! But seriously, "ruining" their 914's? Why do you assume that a converted 914 is rendered worthless and lost forever? Please, tell me in detail exactly what work is involved converting a V8 car back to an air cooled four... or six. The only real issue is replacing a relatively small amount of sheet metal that’s been removed, which involves no more work than minor rust repair. Everything else just unbolts. So is any 914 that needs the same amount of rust repair “ruined” forever? Of course not. That’s a moot point, actually, because no one with a SBC car ever converts back to a four. They could if they wanted to and it wouldn’t be hard, but they don’t want to.

Condemning a conversion car that’s obviously been thrashed and had no maintenance for 25K miles makes exactly what point? That stupid owners exist? No question there. Being in such good shape after all that abuse is testimony to the motor, of course, but you’ve certainly noticed abused and rotting four cylinder air cooled cars being cut up and scrapped for lack of maintenance and owner attention, haven’t you? So using your logic proves exactly what? That air cooled engines are also inappropriate because some stupid owners abuse and fail to maintain them?

What’s the problem with someone doing what he wants with the car that he owns? I don’t condemn racers for ruining perfectly good road cars with roll cages, stripped interiors, fiberglass parts, un-smogable motors, non-original paint etc. Indeed, asking you the same question that you asked; why couldn’t you have done that with a 924, since they’re practically worthless?

I respectfully suggest that you have a very fine car, I admire it, and you deserve to be proud of it. But this is not all about you. You've done what you liked with yours, now please be open-minded enough to let other people do the same with theirs. I myself loathe that green, but on YOUR car it looks good!

[quote name='Paul Illick' date='Mar 22 2007, 07:59 AM' post='878041']
[quote name='sww914' post='878003' date='Mar 22 2007, 02:27 AM']
Racing! I was talking about racing!
Show me a SBC that will take that kind of RACING.[/quote]

Ok ... just playing devils advocate here but you do watch the american lemans series I think the corvette has pretty much owned the GT1 class for the last 4 or 5 years...

Now that being said I will agree that most porsche flat sixes are much better equipped for road racing in stock form due to the dry sump oil systems. However, if you are going to road race one you can go ahead and add another 1k - 1.5K for oil cooling system too.

A properly build sbc dry sump engine will last as well as a porsche engine on the road corse IMO ... However, the price savings by going SBC just went out the door on a dry sump engine ... You would just be doing it for the HP advantage at that point.

How about an Electric conversion and go race Tesla's I might change directions and do that if Lithiom Ion batteries get cheaper

1) I agree you should do what you want, period.
2) IMHO staying w/ the same manufacturer, regardless of the marque, will always re-sell better than a hybrid.
3) Finally I still think an inverted V would be revolutionary & really handle well.

Again the most important thing is to do what you want & enjoy.

Wonder what Carol Shelby would say about that???

To change my car back to a 4 cylinder would involve more work than a little rust repair job. But then again why would I want to?

OK, OK names like Shelby, Foose, Codington, etc. not withstanding. Hot rod Fords almost always sell for more if they have a flathead V8 or a 351 Cleveland over your standard Chevy 350 transplant, (if you watch auctions like BJ). Did Shelby actually sell his hybrid Bristol AC/Fords or did they evolve into Cobras? I thought he just built them for racing? Doesn't Ford now own the Bristol AC marque? These are generalizations anyway... you're going to pay for quality, regardless of the marque & if a SBCV8 conversion is done well, as opposed to a crappy 6 conversion then it should be worth more. On the whole however, economics has dictated the price & history has shown one marque cars sell faster & for more, than multi marque hybrids. Ya know, I don't even own a Ford!

Bristol?

I'm sorry, I meant AC. Bristol was the engine. From the Carroll Shelby website:

September 1961 - When AC Cars of Thames Ditton, England, loses the source for its six-cylinder Bristol engine for its two-seat roadster, Carroll Shelby airmails a letter of proposal to the company to keep building the chassis for a special Shelby sports car to be powered by an American V8. As yet, he knows nothing of a new lightweight, thinwall-cast, small-block Ford V8.

What? Bristol? I'm actually going there tomorrow, did you need anything? Not quite springtime yet, but from now on a lot of really cool vehicles start coming out of garages in southern England. And they have a special fondness for Cobras and Lotus Sevens, a lot of fun to see.

I agree about one-marque cars' resale value, but who cares? Between you and me if you have a V8 914 in the garage you're only going to be thinking about driving it, not resale value. Maybe some day, but not this day.

If you're thinking about resale value then you're definitely not having enough fun!

This Click to view attachment
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...assuming I come into some money that is! anyone wanna donate?

BTW, stock 4.7 is 285ish hp, anyone know what tuning limits it might have?

If you go to the 928 forums (pelican/rennlist) and search for super chargers...there are bolt on kits for these cars that really boost the HP. Good thing is these engines were built so strong to begin with you don't have to go beef up any internals (assuming it's a good strong motor and not abused/run down).

If you want a really wild 914, take a VW W-12 motor and bolt it to a Boxster 6 speed. Then stick it in a 914. The W-12 motor is SHORTER than a Porsche flat 6, and will bolt directly to the boxster tranny with no adapter plate.

Then put the boxster rear suspension under the back of the 914, and coil overs on the front.

More HP than a SBC or a 928 engine, and it SOUNDS like a 12.

Click to view attachment

(Now to just find a W-12 in a wrecking yard!).




(Am I a Sick SOB or what?)

Are you serious? Is it that easy? That would be very impressive but I got to wonder about the centre of gravity on that beast !

I never hear any of the GT40, lola or anyone else with a mid engine v8 car worrying about center of gravity. Why is a v8 914 any different?

Jerry

Actually, that's a pretty damned good question & one I wish I would have asked!

More down to earth (and to continue this hijack), will the current VR6 bolt to a Boxster tranny? VW's punched out the VR6 over the years. The current motor is 3.6L. It's longitudinally mounted in the Touareg and Cayenne. Turns 276HP, 266 lb-ft in the VW, 290HP, 273 lb-ft in the Porsche before any aftermarket work. That's better than the 993. Would guess they'll be showing up in recycle lots in the next year or two.

The 928 motor, while being all Alluminum, is HEAVIER than a SBC. After installing an Alluminum headed SBC in the front of an 81 928, the ride height changed over 1.5"...

The 16 valve motors are not the strongest on earth, and for the amount of work required to get it installed... WHY??

The 32 valvers can make some decent HP, but they do end up a bit handgrenade-ish under lots of boost.

on the W12 looks like alot of fun.

Just wondering if anyone has put in a dry sump V8 to get the Chevy’s to sit lower. I know it cost a lot more and there is a tank and a pump to deal with but it would sit a few inches lower I think?

Bob

The W-12 is dry sumped. It would mount low in the car and keep the weight down low. And you could use a stock /6 oil tank to feed it.

Enjoy the six.


The Wiz

LOL OH yea or WTF were they thinking putting a V dub engine in a porsche ... Of course I am just driving the point home. The 914 by design was a hybrid.

It is just a question of what you hope to attain. if it is max HP to weight there is only one answer V8. If you want to race in a specific class it is porsche 6 or type IV. If you want to hit the DE's have a rockin street car that blows away 150K cars well V8.

They are all sweet in their own way but please folks get off the high horse about staying with the same manufacturer. Since the 914 had 2 disticntly different ones from the start.Also, lets get real about SBC racing capabilities. Yes there are not any dry sump SBC's on the road other than the new Z06 corvette. A dry sump race prepped SBC will live on the track just like a porsche engine today. There was a time when porsche was the only engine that would live in an endurance race. That is not true today ... However, while on that topic not to many hobbiest have the budget or the inclination to run a 24 hour enduro. For the most part unless you can afford to have the car completely spent at the end of the race (if you finish without completely destroying everything) You are at a point where you have to rebuild everything. My friend and I have wanted to race the 24hours at thunder hill for years but figured it has about a 15K price tag!

Racers have been using dry sump oiling on small block chevys for years, all the parts are easy to get. Dry sump will not change the location of the crankshaft so the engine can't be mounted any lowrer than the transmission can be mounted,which is not very much. Don't see it being worth the effort.

Jerry

A 914 V8 can be set up to handle as well as one with any other engine in it. The limiting factor is the skill of the driver, not the center of gravity.

Jerry

The only thing missing from that combination is a VW/Porsche emblem on the back panel.