OK, Just for grins I thought I'd ask for some opinions….

I want to build either a Porsche 6 conversion or another V8 car. Either way it will probably be a couple years until I can start serious work. (too many other things going on right now….kids, work, house, etc). But I can start sourcing and stock piling the parts now and that, to me, is part of the fun.

I would love to do a big 6 conversion but reality ($$$) dictates it would have to be a smaller displacement, used, non-rebuilt motor. It would have to be an entry level 6 conversion. I think for similar money I could build a 250-300 HP small block V8 car and build the motor, and maybe the trans, the way I want.

I've built a V8 car before but sold it before I worked out all the bugs. I never really got to enjoy it. (Only a few passes up and down the street on trial runs.) I still really like the idea of having a V8 car.

I've owned a few older 911s and love the 6. I've never had a 914-6 and would like to experience that also.

Has anyone done one of each?

Which way to go?

I got another one for you...

Rick 918-S has a 928 "kit" for a 914...think about that option...

Rich

i'm probably going to catch a lot of fire for this, but here it goes:

the vast majority of V8 conversions i have seen were done "on a budget" just like the one you're contemplating, and they all looked/were crappy, cheap hackjobs.


all the nicer ones were done by people that spent their share of money doing it.

obviously, your car, your choice, but IMHO, life is too short for cheap beer.
same goes for conversion cars. do it right or don't do it ...

Andy

"Rick 918-S has a 928 "kit" for a 914...think about that option..."

..sorry for the minor HiJACK, would there be a way a 'newbie' could get in touch with him--- got the car cryin' for this option!

Damnit, i agree w/ Andy!

Next thing you know i'll have a red mohawk, and show up too an event in a fiends minivan..LOL

Dont do a v-8 for cost, do it because it's what you want, and dont cut corners!!! Everytime you do, you will have to fix it eventually.

BJH

How about a third option to consider? A WRX motor. 220 HP out of the box, not too hard to get up to 300. Weighs a lot less than either a V8 or Porsche 6 (even lighter than a type IV actually) easier on transmissions than a V8, and then for even more power there are the STi engines.

-Tony

Ken,

Click on the "members" tab above, type in "rick 918-S", and you should get his contact info.

And yes, your car would be bitchin w/928 power!

Building a V8 car takes a lot of time once you get it running. There are so many little things that take time to make the car drivable. If you don't mind driving a car that feels like an old stage coach with 300 hp well then its easy, but if you want something that's comfortable, that takes time and money. I drive my car as if it were a Toyota.

I wanted to do my six conversion right...which takes bucks. So, I found myself (took a long time to find it) a great 911 donor car...spent 1 year parting it out. And now I have a free engine, transmission, electronics, brakes, front end. Now my out-of-pocket costs are only for the oil tank and motor mount. Took time, but it was fun stripping down a complete car and I'm ultimately going to have a very nice 3.2l 914 for very little dollars!

Plus tin and hoses and exhaust and linkages and flywheel. It has been my expirience that it is these other bits that really add up on a six.


Not trying to be argumentative at all.
I am stupidly building both a 6 conversion and an 8 at the
same time. Didn't plan it that way it just happened. This is
my second six swap, first 8.

But good v8 stuff aint really cheap either.
If somehow one got a GOOD six cheap and a good 8 for the same price,
I don't think the cost is all that different, especially if it has things like heat.
I have had problems with sixes leaking. If one sits for a while, then starts
getting used, those dried out seals are going to start leaking. Too many
different materials heat cycling at their own paces. Then you end up with
clouds of oil smoke wafting up from the headers or heat exchangers while
sitting at stop lights (never happened to me, I just, umm, read about it)
Resealing a six is harder and more $$ than a v8.
Making a real car out of any old car is going to take time and money, no
matter which engine you swap in.
After you have it "done" the big difference might be replacing that "good" 8
or "good" six when it goes bad. A crate 8 is usually gonna be cheaper.

Thanks, I went to the PM route, hope to hear back. I kind of like the idea of the 928, ---stayin' Porsche, could be fun--- as far as doing engine swaps, nothing new to me. I will admit, I haven't done one to a 914... a 944 yes, a 351W into a MGB... and couple others.

I know I need those other things...of which I already have most including factory heat exchangers. As you well know, you also need hoses, plumbing, radiators, flywheel/clutch/tranny adapter etc for a V8 conversion that also adds up. My point in my post was if one would want to reduce the cost for a six conversion effort..and has the time...one can really do it right without breaking the bank if one finds a good condition donor and parts it out. In my deal, I have a 70k 3.2l engine and all the goodies. My final TOTAL conversion costs (out of pocket) will be about 3k (assuming you don't count the time I spent parting out a car). And in case I ultimately blow up my 901 I have a 915, axles and CV's from the 911 sitting in the wings for a ring and pinion flip and wevo sideshifter!

I'm around here. I have some parts. At this point I'm not sure their available.

If I agree with what Sir Andy say's that would mean I think my conversion is better than the average V8. I think mine is marginal at best. It's not my best work. But the car is apart and when it reforms I hope to improve some things I rushed the first time around. I'll tell you one thing. I'll never bring this car to the level of trailer queen. It's built to drive rock chips, dirt and all!

Rick's 918 is really cool....it rumbles and it's all porsche!

Nice thing about a six is they fit right in because they were designed too. Gathering up the parts is the hard thing but installing them is easy.

Thanks Buddy!

And chappy, the six is ment to bolt in except yours... I have goose bumps just thinking about it!

Keep it Porsche

Ya, But the Alien was truly a ground breaking endeavor, a fabricated act of genius of another world.

My Turbo monster fab up has been pretty straight forward. I would say earthly.

It's all about what makes you happy. Almost all project cars have blown budgets and are works in progress. Some people enjoy the build more than a completed driver.

Guy Thompson built a great V8 conversion / restoration and didn't get lured into scaling up everything including his budget. He had the facilities and talent to do all the work to keep his financial investment low.

Rick's alien is another example of careful choice of components and ingenuity.

Unless you want to try something different, there are many examples to follow...

To do a low $ 6 or 8 conversion. I believe you will spend less money on the 8. I have had an 8 that I got from the guitar player from Earth Wind and Fire. He had it in his garage and wanted to sell it. It had the motor (283 Chevy) in and just needed to be finished off. It had the parts to do it: The fan, the Aluminum radiator, headers, and water pump. It was a combo of Rod Simpson parts and Kennedy Eng. This was in 1979. The car had 916 fronts and rear with glass flares. I painted it; fan the water lines through the heater ducts, built a shroud, mounted the parts and it all worked. What was cool? The sound the and torque. What was not cool: The heat that poured into the car, the lack of precision in the feel of the car. The Porsche engine gives the car in my option a certain feel as you go through the gears, The Porsche engine is so nice as it revs to red line.. The Chevy does not do it with the stock 901. You do not need 1st.

You can spend big bucks and change a lot of things but it never will have the feeling of a 6 even a lower power 6. A good thing is if you need a new motor you can just get any thing from a junk yard and it will be fine as the car is plenty fast with a stock small block.

If the Porsche engine needs rings or bearings and you need to crack the cases, you are in for some very big bucks. The up side is the 6 conversions will always bring more money for a decent job. I have had both cars and while the 8 can be fun, I would rather visit than own. I have a factory 1970 914-6 today, 1986 Carrera Cabriolet, 2006 Honda Ridgeline, 2007 Lexus GS400h 320 hp Hybrid 0 to 60 in 5.2 sec. (That is a rocket with 4 doors)

Bob

I agree with Andy, Rick, and drivibility. If you want a nice six conversion...it will cost some money. If you want a nicely done V-8 car, you will spend some money as well. With a V-8 car, most people take their own route and arrive with something quite unique. My collection of parts and fabricated pieces differs from any other V-8 car out there. The great thing about a six conversion is it has been done correctly so many times by different people that all you need to do is a short bit of research...get your money together and start building your car using the "map" that is currently out there. I know there are companies like Rod Simpson & Renegade Hybrids...and their stuff is good and it works...but they constantly update their kits and what was considered "THE WAY" to do it has now evolved and will constantly evolve. The six thing is perfected. The V-8 thing generally isn't. There are a few examples out there that come close to perfection and you'll see a few of them on this website...like the Alien. I have spent many years on my LS6 V-8 car and it's nice...but far from perfection.

Funny! I was just thinking about you! If your looking for a road map to the outer limits of V8 914's Bill's is on the edge!

The "red mohawk" and "showing up in a minivan" remarks reminded me of Sammy G, who has done both the V8 and the Six conversions IIRC. The last I heard from him was that the V8 was absurdly fun, but the Six was in his opinion "right" for the car.

--DD

V8 has got to be easier but not cheap - maybe cheaper than ... ??

crate 250hp motor and accessories = $2500

renegade cooling system, conversion kit = $3000

plus - rear springs, exhaust, fuel pump, guages, good or rebuilt tranny, do not neglect brakes

as far as driving pleasure of a V8 car - I will be able to comment very soon : )

Cost aside...

Driving a nice six conversion is like driving a Porsche. I mean it is fast, and it sounds good, and it has a certain "feel", but is fairly civilized.
Driving a V8 car, can be civilized but mostly is like strapping a booster rocket to your ass while wearing roller skates.
I love my V8 car.

how about my 535 hp/550 tq modified 4.6 supercharged Mustang Cobra motor?

Would twist my little car up like a piece of tin foil...

Having owned many 911s over the years (and currently), I'll have to say, the 911 engine is a sweet thing. And a big displacement 911 engine (3.0 +) in a 914 is awesome, no doubt.

But a V8 is fun in a very different way. It is such an extreme contradiction, a rumbling V8 in what was a 90 hp aircooled VW powered car. And big torque and light weight is just plain fun.

That being said, the devil really is in the details. There are a lot of V8 conversions out there that are nothing more than a V8 and related items crudely hacked into an otherwise stock, rotting 914. Most actually seem to be that way - fairly crude homemade jobs. Not good.

It does take quite a bit to get a nice, well balanced, solid V8 car. I'm in the process of refreshing mine, and I'm surprised at the amount of work that was put into it (pro built by Renegade in 1995). There are not many parts of the car that were NOT touched/modified. Suspension, modified/reinforced chassis, rollbar, brakes, wheels and tires, flares to fit them, then of course an engineered cooling system, rewiring, etc.

And then, of course, the biggest thing is the tranny issue. There's the strength issue, but also, importantly, the gearing issue. Other than maybe the 4 speed 930 trans, none of the Porsche transmissions are geared very well for a V8. This is a major expense issue, if you want to have really nice gearing matched to the V8. And gearing is a huge factor in the way a car feels and drives. The 6 conversion has a huge advantage in that regard.

All in all, my guess is that a "properly" done V8 conversion and a "properly" done 6 conversion (3.0 or 3.2) end up costing roughly the same.

And that a "shoestring" 6 conversion would be a much better car than a "shoestring" V8 conversion. You could slap a 3.0 in a 914, rig up an oil tank, hook it up to the 901 and go, and you'd have a decent, fun car to drive. Just slapping in a V8 and radiator in a 914 will not result in a fun car.

I've really enjoyed my V8. I love the "hot rod" aspect of it, having to come up with creative solutions, fabricate parts, not always having a shop manual to go by, etc. I like the challenge of making the conversion look as "factory," or as "clean" as possible, really focusing on the details. It's very satisfying when you are talking about such an extreme implant. I even like learning about US fasteners, and breaking out my US standard tools! (Never really done that much, having never owned an American car).

Go with the six the cool thing about the six is you can always go up in displacment as money allows there are a lot of options out there now that make it about the same price as an V8

I really don't think any conversion should be 'cheap' or they do end up a bit hacked (either 6 or 8). In terms of any arguments about running cooling for the V8, that tends to be mute IMO due to a good 6 should have a complete oil cooler setup plumbed up front too (tho' obviously the cooler is smaller than a radiator, plumbing is an equal PITA for both).

If on a budget, I bet putting all the conversion money into a big, stroked 4 would be a better bet than a cheaply converted 6.

Now, if you want 350HP or more, then a 6 is minimum, and a big late one at that and there will be $$ in that engine and it will be a little high-strung. In that argument, I think it is cheaper to shove a 350 with a mild tappet cam in the car and have 350HP with a benefit of an equal 350 torque or more with very little load on that V8.

I started the V8 conversion because of that - I wanted high HP and I LOVE V8 rumble. Some like the sound of a big 6 better - that is all taste.

And frankly, build what you really LIKE regardless of funds and by that I mean this - if you really want a big 6 with 350HP and you build a V8 due to budget, you will never really be satisfied with the V8, so you sorta wasted that money. I say do what I had to do (though it was very tough to hold out) and save your $$ until you can build what you want. I spent 10yrs (no lie!!!) saving $$ and doing some things along the way as money allowed in preparation to get the $50K I needed to build my tube chassis monster.

But that is what I wanted and I would have not been happy with any less. Spending $25K to get 1/2 way there would have left me bummed and out $25K. That is obviously my opinion, but I worked in the hot rod world for years while going to college and so forth and everytime someone cut a corner due to $$ they did nothing but bitch about how that piece of the puzzle sucked.

Build it the way you want. The views experssed here pretty much reflect that. If it's a cost issue, ask lots of questions (like this thread) and draw conclusions. If resultant manners are an issue, you could probably make arrangements to get a ride in a couple of each type to again draw conclusions from. To me, there's nothing quite like the reality of driving/riding in a car like the one you're considering to help with your decision making process.

Good luck,

Andys

How about an $11k 3.2 conversion kit from motor Meister. It might be worth it if you consider a complete rebuilt motor with 255 hp and all of the conversion parts that are needed.

The conversion goes alot faster and easier when you got all of the parts. Plus when you do a 6cyl. you don't have to hack up the front of your car.

I do agree about doing what you want, because when it is done you'll be the happiest.

Have any of the v-8 owners had problems with your frame getting torqued by the motor?

Kinda reminds me of those great Roadrunner cartoons...I got the visual and laughed out loud when I read your comment!

This is a good point. I ended up buying a tub that had already been cut cause
I could not bring myself to cut up mine.

patrick

do a search here for Motor Meister. i'm pretty sure you won't be buying anything from them after you're done reading ...

Andy

Do a nice Porsche six. V8 is just wrong unless your willing to do it right and spend big dollars on reinforced tube framed monster. I agree with Andy do it right.

keep in mind you got guys here that just drive on the street, guys who do street/ax, guys that take their cars to the track, and guys who keep their cars on jack stands : )

Alot depends on how the vehicle will be used as well.

It's all here. Besides detailed build threads and the list of non-OEM conversions (see my signature), there is a conversion FAQ that Lapuwali assembled. Costs, pros and cons...

Let me post in all honesty.

If you want something you can race, Its a no brainer. Porsche 6.
It cost SO much more money making a v8 914 a contender at the autox or track than a 6 because of the classes that you get bumped into.. I have some crazy amounts of money into my suspension and brakes and stiffening and wheels and everything.. AND its not even half way done!!!

Let me be honest, Im hating my car right now.. I have so much time and money into it, but its giving me soo much crap right now. AND it looks like shit.

BUT...

there are a few things that the v8 has that the 6 could never give you.
Its got the amazingly throaty sound, that is almost impossible to escape.
The torque is amazing, simply amazing.
Repair cost is extremely cheap, high performance parts are equally cheap.

If I were to do it again, I would have gone with a subaru. I'd still be driving it.

914's need short stroke sixes

Acutally, I still think a short stroke 302 with 350hp and winds to 8k is the perfect engine for a high hp 914...

when all is said and done..

I'll second that. I'm pulling the modified 3.0 out of my facotry six to replace it with a factory 2.2S MFI motor with a short box. There is nothing like a high compression, big cam Porsche six running the 66mm crank. They just sing. The big 6's and V8's will be faster, but I'll take a high strung short stroke six any day of the week.

Brooke

I have had alot of hotrods over the years and the V8's HP and torque

are awsome. But I have to say that after riding in and driving 911's, nothing

sounds or performs like a six. There is no substitute.

Just to put some numbers down here is what I came up with on the same delima:

For a 6 conversion:
clutch cable bracket 149
clutch cable 69
front cooler 440
oil tank 795 500
side oil pipe 115 -
gt oil cooler kit 695
firewall engine mount 495
reinforcement 145
reinforcement arms 89
wevo 915 kit 1975
tail shift link 520 -
heat exch 1825 495 bursch
muff 320

The v8
Renegade kit and radiator 3K
wevo 915 kit 1975

then you save a fortune on the engine the engine... a good 3.6 will run you around 7K and up vs a good 400 hp chevy v8 for 2500-3500.

Just food for thought. This is a very simplified list. I figured with brake, suspension, wheel and tire, chasis, on and on my conversion to an LS1 is going to run about upper teens.

List all your priorities on paper then burn it while dancing naked. Now get what you want and if you are like most here, if it don't make your ass suck cotton, why do it!

Confusiuos say," the one with the nicest toy in the end wins!"

. Good thread! One thing I noticed not mentioned in this thread is resale value... I think a six conversion will be worth more, if done right, over an 8 conversion. This I'm sure will change as more owners opt for Ricks' conversion, an all Porsche one, & all the bugs & kinks get addressed & such. With the advent of the Cayenne, w/ twin turbos no less, how long is it going to be before someone drops one of those into a teener? The factory name, reliability & 455bhp in a teener? Resale value, just my 2 cents.

I considered an american V-conversion 1.5 years ago when I was considering my conversion.

For my money (I fabricated almost all my own conversion parts that I could), I went with the 3.2 Carrera engine.

I could have bought the V-6 or V-8 cheaper, but almost all the conversion parts would have had to be bought (I haven't done one). Since I had done 911 engine conversions and have seen many more, I chose that route. I think the cost would have become a wash due to the parts I already had on hand.

I am more than happy with the way my conversion came out. The only thing I SOMETIMES think about is if I should have gone with a reproduction oil tank instead of a racing tank. I like my round racing tank, but sometimes wish I had the room back in my front trunk.

That's what I think about that.

As has been said...."It's what ever rings your bell". For me, it doesn't feel right unless it's a six. I do love the sound of a V-8 and always will but in a 914... the center of gravity is too high. In a 914 ....the six sounds, corners, feels right! I suggest you drive both if possible on a track and then deceide.

I'm doing a non-turbo Subaru swap. If I was to do something else it would be a small ford v8 with ITB's. There is nothing that sounds better than a screaming v8 with 4 webers. Small like 265 cubes of short stroke (2.6") 8000rpm fun. Of course to do it right you need to start with a $4500 83 pound aluminum block and start piling on the good stuff.

Though I'm doing a V8 (LS1) conversion, I suspect there's more re-sale potential for a well done 6 conversion. The V8 conversion I think narrows down the potential for re-sale to a very select few.

(And) Yes, build it the way you want it.

Andys

Thank you for posting this. I always hear about 6 conversions done on the cheap. I just don't buy it unless you have years to collect parts by finding "good deals" or you can make/modify parts on your own. Just in parts(engine included but not including the 5-lug conversion) I have about ten grand. It's the little things that add up. Things like getting parts powder/ceramic coated. Getting the right tach. Putting in additional gauges. Oil lines & fittings. New fuel pump & lines....etc. Hell, shipping costs add up if you aren't getting everything local. Also, my ten grand didn't include HE's(just headers) and I stayed with the 901.

I had to pay for labor since I don't have the skills but just the parts alone aren't cheap. I think a lot of the little stuff gets missed when writing up a budget. I was lucky in that Joe(Series9) gave me a pretty comprehensive list before we got started.