Why NASCAR Is For Wussies

One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than
the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500.

* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1-1/2 gallons of
nitromethane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same
rate with 25% less energy being produced.

* A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the
dragster supercharger.

* With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the
fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders
run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.

* At the stoichiometric (stoichiometry: methodology and technology by which
quantities of reactants and products in chemical reactions are determined)
1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitromethane the flame front temperature measures
7050 degrees F.

* Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the
stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water
vapor by the searing exhaust gases.

* Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an
arc welder in each cylinder.

* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After ½ way,
the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at
1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow.

* If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in
the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow
cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half.

* In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds dragsters must accelerate an
average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph well before half-track, the
launch acceleration approaches 8G's.

* Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading
this sentence.

* Top Fuel Engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light!

* Including the burnout the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under
load.

* The redline is actually quite high at 9500rpm.

* The Bottom Line; Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked
for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated
$1,000.00 per second.

The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.441 seconds for the
quarter mile (10/05/03, Tony Schumacher). The top speed record is 333.00
mph. (533 km/h) as measured over the last 66' of the run (09/28/03 Doug
Kalitta).

Putting all of this into perspective:

You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter "twin-turbo" powered
Corvette Z06. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and
ready to launch down a quarter mile strip as you pass. You have the
advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette hard up through the gears
and blast across the starting line and past the dragster at an honest 200
mph. The 'tree' goes green for both of you at that moment.

The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your foot down hard,
but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within
3 seconds the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the finish
line, a quarter mile away from where you just passed him. Think about it,
from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph and not only
caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere
1320 foot long race course.

That folks, is acceleration

i dunno about you guys but i like a car i can drive around corners.
left AND righthand corners ....


Andy

F-15: accelerates and turns....

I havent taken you too a professional NHRA drag race.

Standing at the starting line with two Top Fuel dragsters staged ready to run... and both of them launch with close to 7000hp to the rear wheels making a side by side 320mph pass that blurs your vision, burns your nose and makes your hair tingle... It will ALWAYS be more exciting than any road race.


B

I have to say that that does blow the doors of of NASCAR.

I have heard though that the thing about NASCAR is that when those things get up to 200Mph (which I am told they do) they are basically floating.

I'd like to see some of this drag racing stuff, but road racing is likely a better hobby. More to learn, and it should be cheaper.

Fun fun.

Fiid.

Drag racing is MUCH cheaper. You can use a set of slicks for 3-4 events before they need replacing. Drag racing is much easier on the engine than road racing.

The amazing thing about Nascar... the noise the cars make at 185mph with the engine OFF. Paul Heery/his son and I watched nightime qualifying at Daytona for the Pepsi 400 from behind pit wall. They make 1 warm up lap.. then 2 full throttle qualifying passes.. on the last lap they cut the engine at over 185 mph when they cross the finish line. The car coasting at 185mph and NO other noise except the AIR coming off the car.... is LOUD. I had No idea how loud "AIR" was coming off the body panels of the car. This something you dont normally get to experience. Normally all the cars are out on the track and it sounds like a 190mph frieght train... so you dont hear the "AIR" coming off the cars like we did that night. Truelly awesome. I respect all forms of racing. I have had a hand in several different forms... it takes a ton of work no matter what form you choose.


B

if you're talking about watching, you're probably right.
but i still prefer road racing if i'm driving. in fact, i even take a nice, long hill-climbing event over road racing. or moto-cross (cross-country) with a good bike.
anything that doesn't just make me go straight for a few 100 yeards, even if it's wicked fast.

i like the challange of mastering the handling of the vehicle i'm driving. used to do cross country moto-cross when i was younger.

but, everyone's different. and that's a good thing.
Andy

Oh.. the top fuel teams use a new pair of slicks every pass.


B

That whole thing kinda describes my 914 before the deer, but then I did have a 1.7 with high compression pistons.

Andy,

trying to keep a car straight with say 500hp on 10inch wide slicks is more work than getting any Porsche around a corner. Instead of 4 wheels with traction.. you only have two. Makes for a wild ride trying to keep a car in a lane that is 12 feet wide for 1320ft on the rear tires while it wants to skate back and forth. I'll get you in a drag car one day. I wont try and change your mind... but you have the same "vision" of drag racing that most people have. Suspension setup and tuning play the same role in drag racing as they do in road racing. Getting the rear tires to plant when being shocked with 500lbft of torque (and not going up in smoke) is a science.

It will be fun.. you will see.


b

You mean there's more than press the pedal when the light turns green and see what happens? What do you mean you have to step on the gas before the light turns green?

Bullshit.

The F-15 takes something like 15 seconds to run 1/4 mile from a standing stop.

Just running, I can outpace an F-15 from 0 MPH to 15 MPH.

The average family sedan runs better 0-30 times than an F-15.

The F-15 cannot make it through any corner sharper than 1/4 mile, unless it is on the ground and almost at a full stop.

Jets do not accelerate very well at low speeds. In fact, they are really awful at it. At high speeds, at high altitudes, they rule. But when placed on equal footing (so to speak) with a ground vehicle, they come off second-best.

...Not to mention that the F-16 both out-accelerates and out-turns the 15... It weighs less than half as much, puts out half the thrust...

--DD

Very true, Dave...must be the raw speed and that 3rd dimension.

I love the night drags at Woodburn...better than a thunderstorm.

It'll be real interesting when electric dragsters are competitive w/top fuel (darn spooky sound-wise, too)

F-15eens coming off a carrier are fast. Can't remember, but I think they do 150-180 mph off the deck and something like 3-4 G's in 2-3 seconds.

plus if you pissed a F15 pilot off, there wouldn't be enough of your car left to write a postcard on.

Yeah but they're powered by the carrier's catapult. They couldn't take off from the deck without it even if they started from the very back of the deck and the ship was into the wind at full throttle.

Nope. F-15s coming off of a carrier catapult come off in pieces. They are not Navy aircraft, nor are they carrier-capable. That means that if you hook them up, the catapult will rip the plane to pieces.

F-18s, now, those are indeed carrier-capable aircraft.

--DD

M

I love you Dave.

Sometimes I forget Dave is a NASA contrator.


B

And an airplane nut from way back...

--DD

unless of course you're talking about a full-military-thrust cat shot off a carrier deck in an F-14...

I also have respect for all forms of racing. I guess what I meant was that road racing is the most interesting to me at this point . I Had no idea drag racing would work out cheaper... I guessed that since your motor only really needs to run for a couple of minutes per event that they would be tweaked to the absolute limit and there would be a lot of rebuilds and stuff. Didn't know if tires would blow that cost away. I should make statements about things I know nothing about. Maybe we should do a 914club trip to a drag night over at sears??
Anyone know what the calendar is like over there.

On the aero side - I think now would be a good time to bring up the JATO unit. Dave? I greatly enjoyed reading the f15 stuff. Encore!

Fiid.

Ok, I'll jump in..

NASCAR for wussies?. This has been hashed out before. I had the pleasure to drive with a few NASCAR Southwest Tour regulars my first time doing Indoor Karts in santa clara. Needless to say I was killed and bullied all over the track. So this year I did a few Skip Barber Schools and a bunch of Karting to be ready for them next time.. And in Sept, I still got killed again but, not as bad. I got a few handshakes and raised some eyebrows. I then found a new respect for racers that do anything with NASCAR..

Drags?. My Dad and I used to go out and watch the Autumnationals at Fremont Raceway way back when the Top Fulers were running 5.20s. You could feel the shockwave as the Top Fuler went past at something like 250mph. Oh and try to get the sound out of your ears took a week. Stood next to Bob Glidden as his car failed the min weight on the scale. Then heard hims cuss like a sailor. Watched the doors slammer class do under 11.00sec. when weaving/laying rubber all over the track. Most rememberable was a small block Nova slew a big block Buick...

What I learned this year?. Its all relative, There are many diffrent disciplines to race car drivng and not all apply to each but, it still takes skill, courage, B@lls and a massive understanding of car control to be good at any of them. Too bad for me I'm just starting to figure this out.

Pat

Yeah NAVY planes are built with gnarliest landing gear around. They get retired faster than a land based plane(s).....but I've heard that the landings is what REALLY screws them up....

They land in neutral, hit the wire arrestor...hopefully....and then slam the throttles to the fire wall in case the cable snaps.....

Carrier aircraft land at a temendous angle. I've read that its called a controlled crash. Must have some great shocks!

A few days ago I heard a fighter, looked up, and saw what I thought was an F-14 Tomcat. Twin tailed, laid back. That would be unusual since there are no Naval Air Stations in the area. I see F-16's occasionally since there are Air Reserve units stationed nearby.

Mike

Yes, but can your 914 do it VERTICALLY?

And when was the last time your 914 cornered at 9G?

yes. but not up.

Riverside International Raceway, October 1980. there was a wall involved ...

Actually, they have quite a bit of power on, with lots of flaps and speed brakes to keep the velocity slow. This gives you more control response. Full AB at touchdown in case you miss the wire or the hook bounces so you can go around again. Cable brakes are rare, if they do happen someone might die from it slinging across the deck.

I just had to comment - my dad flew F-4s and F-14s and I do stability and control on F-16s.

I assume these guys are drug dealers in their spare time?

- - - -

I suspect that the A-8 Harrier can do some pretty tight turns compared to either the F-16 or F-18.

I guess I'll do a little homework and see if I can't come up with the same stats for an Atlas IIAS. . .

Yeah the Harrier can turn on a dime with the vectored thrust.....but they can only outwait a supersonic jet like the Eagles and Hornets, hoping they run otta gas and have to RTB.....the Harrier is not supersonic.

The technical term is "VIFF"--Vectoring In Forward Flight. Helps the Harrier turn very sharply.

The JSF won't really be able to do that (they have a separate lift fan that they can't really use very well when moving fast) but they do have a vectorable rear nozzle which will give them pretty decent agility. And it definitely is supersonic!! I forget if they were going for "super cruise" on that or not.

For Rich H--the F-14 on full burner still doesn't accelerate very well at low speeds. It's the massive steam catapult that really gets it moving.

Navy aircraft go through a much more thorough maintenance check than Air Force aircraft do. The Navy has (had??) some F-16s they used for OpFor (Opposition Force--the "Bad Guys") when training. In one of their regular inspections, they found that the main wing spars or supports were cracking. Yipe!! The AF found that out as well, but quite a bit later. They don't check as well as the Navy boys do. (That's why one whole series of F-16 went through truly massive overhauls. They had to replace that wing section.)

I must admit that I do have a grudging respect for the NASCAR boys. I still don't think most of them are really top-caliber drivers, but they are so far above me in talent and skills that it isn't even funny. Probably the worst of them is orders of magnitude better than I could ever be in my life. But that doesn't make them world-class... And the whole attitude in a lot of this country of, "Iffin it ain't NASCAR, it ain't racin'" does tend to irritate after a while.

And besides--real race cars can turn right!!

--DD

Dave, the Navy and Air Force do the same inspections on like aircraft. Take off and landing on a carrier cause a lot more stress than the same on the ground. The diff is, the Navy does their phased and periodic inspections with greater frequency.

Actualy, there is one thing the Navy inspects that the Air Force doesn't.

Folding wings

I think the "real" reason that NASCAR is for wussies is this:

Dave, can the JSF do the Cobra manuver that those SU's do? That was really cool at the air show...

yes, i know - it's the full afterburner thrust that keeps the aluminum cloud from simply plummeting into the ocean somewhere before it drops the full 60 feet off the deck ...