Opinions...
oh geez..

anywho...looking at a well thought out and built 215 V8 in a 914. Approx 160-180 hp but light as its a 62 Buick V8 that is all aluminum, so about 60 lbs heavier than stock.

Its monetarily a great deal and I will probably sell my 73 with a Raby 2056. Just wondered if anyone knew of issues with the all aluminum 215 and has anyone every used it as a conversion?


Michael

I don't know a lot about the Buick V8, but that motor's been used in every type of conversion everywhere, so it shouldn't be hard to find info. I seem to remember hot rodders having head gasket problems and difficulties getting big horsepower, but wouldn't put my hand into the fire to swear that's true. But you're SELLING a Raby 2056 to buy a V8 conversion car? I say go for it, myself, but if I were you I probably wouldn't say that very loudly, you'll surely be scolded.

You aren't Michael Markham from Katy, are you?

That Buick 215 is the same motor as used in the reasonably current Land Rover. There seem to be quite a number of performance bits and a good deal of tech information available (oh, and parts as well). You might want to closely inspect the cooling system's parts and pieces. If the owner is unwilling to give you a ride on a hot day, then you have a clue.
I always thought that the light weight 215 was a good candidate for the 914. That power level made for a fairly well balanced car, IMHO.

Andys

those old buick 215s have aluminum that over time, just like the VWs and Porsches, gets sorta soft. So buy a hel-coil kit in every size because everytime you take out a bolt, you will probably heli-coil that hole

When I worked in a cylinder head shop back in the 90s, every 215, VW or Porsche head that came in my boss immediately had me count the number of bolt holes and quote that many heli-coils because he got burned too many times for rebuilding a head, they take it home and install it, then strip a bolt on the exhaust and blame him.

Head gaskets can be an issue as mentioned before - the alum issue again.

A lot of guys like them because they were light; I am not a big fan of them overall but generally speaking they are alright. A lot of the same issues you have to worry about with type IVs like valve seat drops, threads, etc.

Me, I would use a 6-cyl Chevy before the 215 Buick frankly... get a late one (after they fixed all the vibration issues) and that would be a better engine and would make more power too - and there are a lot of aftermarket parts for them (because of NASCAR racing).

The later rover copies had better aluminum supposedly tho' I personally never saw a Rover block or head while working there, but a few 215s.

edit - Oh yeah, and the coolant passages tend to be really corroded on those old engines and as andys mentioned cooling system whoas may exist, but I want to add internal cooling systems whoas may exist. They are old enough and a lot of people didn't always keep fresh coolant, and the older coolants v. new stuff, etc.....

why would you choose a v8 914 over what you have?

please list the pros and cons as you see them.

jim

Post pics...

Is it silver? if so.. there some very interesting fabbing going on in that car..

Andrew,
I have seen the car on EBAY some time back, It looked nice but I do remember him talking about the long being welded up in a bent position..

This is a black one. I have not seen it in person. The engine was rebuilt about 4 years ago (I think) and its got some neat head mods and runs about a 10.5 to 1 compression ratio. The owner denies it having any coolant issues. The car looks well thought out and well constructed. Looks like the perfect sleeper...

Why would I chose it over a Raby 2056? Mostly the hp and the ability to swap it out for a larger one. The Raby engine I want would run me about $12K or more to get what I want HP wise. This engine can be rebuilt pretty economically and in stock form runs an honest 180 hp. I am not sure what this one runs but its been tweaked a little so to say 200 hp is a good estimate.

I was looking for a v8 cause nothing sounds like a V8 to me....I know sacriledge...but I grew up on these types of engines...


Michael Morris

from Katy

Personally from experience I would keep the Raby motor 914

You want a V8 so why settle for a little V8 go 350 Chev, and you won't be wanting more.
I have had 6 V8 914s and they all were great cars. The 350 is the easy and cheap way to go in a V8 914, although the LS motors are coming on.
Have fun whatever your choice, and just make sure it stops as fast as it goes fast.
CCLIN914NATION

like the idea of an engine that revs well and weighs only about 60 lbs more than a stock engine...keeps the balance.

I may keep the 914 with the Raby engine but not sure as of yet...


Michael

What are your plans for either car? What would you do more? Do you see yourself getting competitive in autoxing or racing?

Would like to try auto cross but wonder if my time would allow me the time to get good at it...

Heres what the car has....

BODY
-Rayco FRP front fenders
-Mitcom 916 rear quarter panels
-P.B. Tweeks FRP flared rocker panels

ENGINE/DRIVETRAIN
-1970 Rover/Buick all aluminum 215-V8
-STD bore, 10.5-1 (stock) comp ratio
-Cyl heads-ported exaust ports, 3 angle valve grind with hi-retainers-shaft rocker stahnds shortened .060"-pushrods shortened .125" for geometry correction.
-Camshaft-M-488 custom ground by Shadblot engineering(Vancouver B.C.) C/W hydraulic lifters
-Spheroidal graphite iron crankshaft, 5 main journal center, thrust mains, .010" under - rods ground .001"
-Hi volume oil pump, Buick v8 filter housing
-Facet electric fuel pump-GM canister filter
-Offenhauser alum intake
-500cfm Carter carb C/W electric choke
-Buick distributer with Unilit conversion
-Kennedy engineered produsct #1000 Rover to Porsche adapter
-KEP 2400# max pressure plate
-KEP throwout bearing
-V.W. 200mm clutch disc
-Custon h.d. radiator w/ twin Spals
-Toyota Corolla heater

ELECTRICAL
-Hella H-4 Q.I. headlites
-Eurolens rear tail lites
-Tach converted to 8cyl
-Mechanical oil pressure and water temp
-Electrical oil temp and cyl head temp
-Alpine CD with J.L audio speakers
-Electric windows
-Keylees entry

SUSPENSION
-H@H Carrera 19mm adj front sway bar
-Addco 16mm rear sway bar
-140# rear springs (100 stock)
-Stock front torsion bar
-Koni adj front and Koni H.D. rear shock absorbers
-BMW 320i front brake conversion
-Stock Porsche rear calipers
-All four calipers have stainless steel liners and completly rebuilt.
-Adj proporsioning valve
-19mm 911 master cylinder
-All rotor have been crossdrilled
-All flex lines are braided stainless steel
-Pagio performance brake pads, all four wheels
-Carrol Shelby Mini-Europa wheels 7/15 front 8.5/15 rear
-Custom roll bar with rear chassis supports



Its a sharp car and everything is done. I want to personalize it some...but its really well put together..

Michael

If your going to do a V8 shoot for 300 hp or your wasting your time and money. Don't forget you give up lower center of gravity when you use a V8. A good part of the 60 lbs is higher in the car changing the roll center and handling. That requires lots of other changes to even compete with a stock 1.7 in an AX in both turning and braking.
Now if you want to pull the 215 in favor of some real HP and give me the Rover power for my 1954 Austin Healey 100-4 BN1 Bad Boy project... now were talking!

Rick..
for Ax..I was thinking of the 914 I have with the Raby 2056....sorry dude!



Michael

Still needs brakes. High hp and stock rotors (cross-drilled doesn't help w/ disipating heat)are not a good combo.

If you want a v-8, do a real v-8. Settling for for a lil motor will work fine for a lil while, but you WILL want more (I'm @ 286 to the tires, and it has lost it's edge.... time for more suspension to get my kicks other ways)

BJH

Some years back, I rode in a 914/Buick 215 conversion. What struck me was how similar the chassis felt to my 2.0. That 180HP felt very nice and tractable with it's lower than a SBC 350 torque, it felt extremely well balanced. I suspect that also made the car easier to drive as well. Oh, and you get the nice V8 sound too. Therefore, I lobby that you don't sell this car short simply because it doesn't have an SBC. The parts list looks pretty good to me.

BTW, the Oldsmobile version of the 215cu in V8 made 195HP also with a stock 10.5:1 CR (had different heads than the Buick). The top-of-the-line Jetfire was a 215HP turbocharged and alcohol injected version offered in 1963.

Andys

Having never owned or driven a V8 conversion, I can only offer one piece of advice...

Don't buy it if you need to take it to a local mechanic for an oil change.

That motor, and the car, sound great. Don't worry about more horsepower now. If it turns out that you want that later then SBC's are cheap, so it's easy enough to add. And if that motor's been running since 1970 then it's doing as well or better than the VW motors that came in the cars, with twice the horsepower. If it's a good deal then I say get the car.

And if you get it please give me a ride sometime.

I really like the idea of a light weight all aluminum V-8 in a 914. If this particular car is a very well crafted V-8 conversion front to rear, I'd consider it as a fun car to own. However, Very few V-8 top shelf conversions exist. If this happens to be the case, build your own and use either a more modern 350 or an LS series motor (like I did)...or you can be real unique and transplant a 928 V-8 in there like Rick Ollah did (you'll be the second). 180 HP is quite an improvement, but you'll be longing for more in short order...and that cute little 215 (even with all the latest go fast parts) is quite limited. I've researched what it takes to get over 300 HP from a 215 and by the time you get 300HP or more out of it, you will have spent enough money to build a crazy LS6 (like I did). One more thing to consider, if you venture into the 350-400+ HP range, your cute/cuddely little 901 will desintegrate immediately! Going past the 350-400HP threshold requires that you go to a much stronger transaxle & brakes. The list of upgrades is never ending. In many ways, the brilliance of a small cubic inch aluminum 215 becomes readily apparent. You won't need anything better than a 901 (maybe taller gears) and a decent brake upgrade. Think long term and how your quest for HP will increase...not to mention budget...and perhaps you will be plenty happy with a cute little 215 in a 914. There's something to be said for finess over brute strength.

I have to dissagree with most of you..

It all depends on what he wants with the car..

If he doesnt have to have mind blowing hp, and 200hp is just dandy for him (as it is with most people in a 2000lb 914) then an all aluminum v8 with a great powerband and good reliablility with an easy to drive nature.. Is better for HIM than a monster v8, that is really hard to drive...

The list above doesn't say how the transmission was built, except for the clutch/FW/PP. Too much power, you could end up chewing through transmissions and tires faster than you might like.

According to the above data, the brakes haven't been significantly upgraded, either.

This might be a good balance for the car, all things considered.

If this car is a GREAT deal than you should think of getting it. You may be able to re-sell it later and make some money if you do not like it. If you do not have extra money sitting around then you need to take a hard look at it. I had a 914 with a 283 Chevy that I ended up with it to resell. (I made money on the deal, a lot of money but that is a different story) that was a lower power V8 just the headers, a mild cam and a 4 barrel. That car was not done well. Shall we say it was not trick, not a super clean install, just a 916-glass body with a V8. With nice paint that was 27 years ago and I only bought it to resell it.

Years ago that is all it took. You need to look at the market and see what has been selling or ask the guys and know if you can get off of this car if you do not like it. The car I had was enough power but the stock brakes where no good for that power. That car was under braked. But it had dead stock 914-4 brakes. You have not said what the price is of this car?

Yes you can build a car but you will spend a lot of money and time. Get one done right that you can resell if you get bored with if or you can tweak it a little. I think Jiffy lube can change the oil on it.

Bob

Thanks for all of your opinions. Its a done deal, I have obligated myself to purchase the car. As far as brakes goes, I can get some items done but will be sure after I drive it. You are right 200 hp in a 2300 lb car is pretty good.

I think its a good deal at $7500. Maybe not a steal but much better than most of the V8's I have seen online. Its well put together, well thought out, so if I don't like it, so what, I can sell it. If I dont like the trans, I can have it rebuilt.

I will post photos when I gotten the seller to write that its officially off the market.


Michael

Paul,
I'd be happy to get your opinion on it...and a ride...


Michael

Scott just put his v8 up for sale for 9kOBO..

Check it out.

no offense. Like a 914 so changing it with the chalon kit doesn't appeal to me.


Michael

I think it is worth every penny (@7K) if it is cleanly executed! I'm sure it will be a hell of alot of fun. I'm guessing you may want to upgrade the brakes to 911 bits and if the gearing seems a bit short....maybe have that changed as well (not too terribly expensive...considering the price you're paying). HAVE FUN!

I think you should still pull the Rover and give it to me though...

I saw a sneek peak at the car, and I advised him to buy it, It looks well sorted out and very clean.



I would agree with the 911 brakes, at least the calipers, master cylander and some good pads.. 500 bucks should be about right if you put some lines in there as well.

Good luck! Hope to see another v8 buddy on this list soon.

Andrew

1. what is wrong with stock brakes?

Sean,

The stock 914 brakes on the V8 I had would heat up and then would not stop worth a shit. When I sold it I warned to man to look into it. If you have better brakes, GREAT. My other car at that time was a turbo 2.0 I built with an SC front end. stock 914 rear. That stopped great. That was where I was coming from as far as good brakes. I depended on the breaks on the V8 car a lot as I could not get the trans and the gears to slow me down. Maybe it would been a matter of time but< NO the breaks where not good. Fade, fade, fade you have secret pads that where not available 27 years ago? On my V8 my $.6

Regards,

Bob

When doubling HP (or alot more), one must increase the ability to stop. The first mistake most people make when increasing performance is to focus everything on the HP performance and not so much on other things you need to control the added HP (brakes being the first thing most people tend to overlook). Stock 914 brakes won't cut it in any V-8 car.

I only ask because my stock brakes only overheat if I do continuous lapping events like DE or time trials. I have never had problems while street driving my v8 car. I speculate that stock brakes that fade during street use are already faulty. (old fluid, air, pad contamination or mal-adjusted) big brakes are nice but I dont think they are required for non-track cars. fluid upgrade, however, is required

The brake topic has been discussed many times. Stock brakes are fine even with a V8 under normal driving conditions with stock width and diameter tires. But when you increase the rotational mass with larger diameter tires and a larger contact patch it takes more clamping force to counter the added rotational forces. If you don't increase the tires and wheel size you will just smoke the stockers. Hence to need for the brake upgrade.

65 mph is 65 mph whether you have a 4 cylinder, 6 cylinder or a V8. If you have a 4 cylinder with a passanger and a V8 without you have approximately the same weight vehicle. All things the same you should have the same car.

Rick,

The V-8 that I had that I said the brakes had fade big time had Centerline wheels 8” front and 11” back with Pirelli P7s. What you say makes sense.

Thanks for the insight.

Bob Burton.

Well said Rick...

well...the purchase is complete. I now own a 914 V8.... I should take possession by the 11th of April and will post photos and impressions then. I now own 2 black 914's, one 72 and one 73.

Anyone interested in a 73 914 with a 2056 Raby engine?


Michael

Yes,.. that shouldn't be a problem.

photos will be posted when I place it in the classified area....and all particulars...


Michael

Congrats on the purchase. Check http://v8buick.com/ in the small block threads for details on the engine and I've got a list of more sites if you want them. It's not a bad motor although I did lose a valve seat on my '74 Range Rover's motor.

I'm just getting started on my v-8 conversion - originally intended to be a buick/rover stroker. Then I came across a complete running 928 4.5 for cheap (guy's doing a Chevy conversion) and have been researching that after looking at Rick's alien build. I really like the idea of keeping it all Porsche.

But today, as always when I don't have the disposable income, I got offered a built Buick 215 (stroked to 266 ci with Buick 300 aluminum heads, Buick 300 crank, TA Performance cam & roller rockers, Holly 390 carb & Edelbrock intake, Kennedy adapter, etc). I can pick it up cheaper than what it will cost me to finish with the parts I've already collected (Rover 4.0 block x-bolt block & injection manifold plus Buick 300 heads & crank). Finishing with the parts I've got now will run another $5k -more than twice the price of the already built engine.

Rick, want to trade parts for parts? I'd seriously think about trading the block, heads, crank etc I have for some of your original 928 stuff (mounts, etc.). Or do you want the alien to be an only child?

this is pretty much what eric shea told me recently - good work - jim

i'm doing a v8 and will keep stock brakes and narrow wheels - street use only.

--