Hello again,
I was wondering about putting a little more power into my 76 2.0L, the car hasnt had any engine work done to it in a long while. I was thinking about putting a new exhuast, air filter, and a big bore kit. But whats your experience with these? Whats the best way to go without doing any type of 914-6 or V8 conversions? I'm in the process of restoring/getting the car painted so this will all come later, i was just looking into it.

Thanks for all the help!

The "Best" going right now is the 2056 engine kit from Jake Raby keeping your djet of course, 115hp. You will have to locate a set of 2.0L SSI heat exchangers and a Bursch or Triad muffler too.

A stock 76 2.0L has 86 or 88 hp depending on which book you read.

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/p...at=0&page=1

if this is what you're talking about. 4700 dollars is a littttle over my budget haha. But thank you, anything "cheaper"?(less expensive, not less quality)

http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/store/p...=308&page=1
or this one
but i was looking for under 2500-3k?

I didn't buy a complete kit, but various parts from Jake and kept my price around $2K to get a 2056 with the proper cam. You don't get new heads but if yours are in good shape can be refurbished. It's definitely worth it.

Hi James. I know exactly how you feel and what you are looking for. You are just looking for a little boost while freshening the motor up. Based on how you have desribed using your current engine for a long time since a freshening - I would venture you are on the reliability side of the fence.

I would suggest staying with a stock bore and stroke. Unless your crank needs rework of any kind, then it would be a good idea to bump up the stroke. Longeveity and reliability in a daily driven machine really needs as thick a cylinder as possible (stock). These engine run on the warm side, and although aircooled engines are engineered from the get-go for heat, these are still a littl eon the warm side. By taking away cylinder thickness, you could invite excessive heat to shortly cause the cylinder to not be round anymore--then you lose much of the power you wanted to gain because of poor sealing.

Take a look on the Nando build thread - I helped my bud redo his motor just the other day and he was running overbores - with dire consequences I have many pictures I posted there.

A bump in compression will help with efficiency and webcam makes a nice 'little' cam for FI which is just a smidge bigger than stock. A word about stock cams - they are garbage. Yours is most likely worn-out and you do not even know because it happens over time and the driver gets used to it. AA pistons/cylinder combos are very inexpensive compared to new old stock - and by having the case faced and heads flycut you can shim the barrels for a good bump in compression. Figure on about 2-3 HP per point of compression / and / about 2-4 miles per gallon more at the same time (based wholly on your complete combo)

Having a basic head rebuild with a good quality three angle valve job will net about 5-7 HP over stock. I spent 500 bucks on having mine extrude honed and would say these gave me about 20 HP over stock - but it was 500 bucks and in the end I ran out of money and had to reuse my 30 year old pistons and cylinders, but she runs just fine thank you very much... (I did this before I knew of AApistons -so I myself a little)

If cabin heat is not a factor - then a set of very modestly priced Kerry Hunter headers WILL give you a very nice bump in power all by themselves - there are exhaust systems which produce more, but the cost factor is EXPONENTIAL compared to the Hunter set-up -

And finally, for the utmost in controllable power production, ditching your stock FI for a MegaSquirt system gives you tuneability and you can keep all your hardware. All you replace is the brain and a choice trinket or two. There are many on here who can help you with this, it is easy and cheap --

Webers make incredible power / are very difficult for a novice to set-up / and can be cantakerous when going from hot to cold extremes (ambient) I run Webers and fully enjoy the tuneability and power output. But I can tune them in my sleep, so what would take one person hours to do, i do in 10 minutes...

You can probably get away with everything here for about 1700 if you do the work yourself (except machining of course)

Good luck, Please, PM me if you have any specific questions.

J AKA BlackSabbath

i like that idea, how much is it with the AA pistons?
where would i find all of this stuff? and i highly doubt i could do it myself.. haha

Sign up at Jakes forums and read about 2056 engines there
http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/showthread.php?t=783

You can build it using alot of your stock parts except the cam. Jakes 9550 cam for Djet works very well and cools off the Cylinder Head temps compared to other cams.
Research on head rebuilding, 96mm pistons etc and do lots of reading...

you can get to the 115hp range for less than a Jake kit.

Yes it is a good way to go - if you run carbs - or - aftermarket FI only. Stock FI this combo would cause your system to throwup all over itself -

http://www.aapistons.com/

I know this may sound absurd, but by going to a 93mm piston/cylinder 1mm less tha stock 2.0L 94's, you get a very nicely dished piston. Not the deep dish as on stock 94's. On street motors (AKA - Torque motors) the dish really helps to contain the combustion pressure and distribute it EVENLY and EFFICIENTLY across the entire top of the piston. By flycutting the heads to bring the combustion chambers closer to the top of the piston, and by facing the case you can have the best of both worlds (good compression (9.0:1 at least) AND the dished pistons!!)Wiseco, Ross, J&E, etc have all done tests to prove this fact. Most people in the street crowd buy flat tops or pop-ups for bragging rights alone ---in a racing event these are needed, but street motors really need dished IMHO

Good news is, you are in an area of dense 914 populations and a few choice shops which can do you a good build --- Some others on here if you would chime in on places to go - Pick up an 'Excellence" magazine and look for ads for shops - dude there are ALOT of them in your general area!!!

Ohhh, im not too excited on the carbs idea then. Whats the FI thing? i just dont want to change the engine that much. I'm trying to keep it as stock as possible just due to the fact that so many of them are far from stock

Just do a www search on megasquirt - - it would give you a good way to stay stock-ish (a new brain and a MAP sensor instead of MPS) There are soooo many people running MS you CAN find someone local willing to help you out with it...

Put a big, heavy, hot, ugly V8 like everyone else. What the hell, it's just one more of a finite number of 914's gone.

You can do it for around that by doing everything yourself and rebuild your heads. Listen to Jake's radio shows on iTunes. He specifically has a show on a budget 2056 build up and other shows on valvetrain and heads.

Jake's kits do make the job easier. They also include things like a new clutch and full balancing from the fan to the pressure plate. If you were going to buy a full kit though I think it makes more sense to jump up to the 2270 or 2316.

You mentioned six conversion. Forget it. The conversion parts alone cost $4K and then you have to buy the engine.

You could probably do a subaru conversion for $4k total but you'll have to do a lot of fabrication.

F = Fuel

I = Injection

I like you man - I run a 1.7 that will whip most any 2.0's, 2.1's, 2.2's, 2.3's.... ass anyday, anytime. People want to "see" my motor, so I flift the gate to be met with exclamations like "what in the hell is that???" or "where is the engine??"

I like a small motor because with small combustion chambers I can control the burn, with a short stroke I can rev my freak on and not worry (ask Nando, ( martinef1963) he is alarmingly AMAZED at how I drive the piss out of MY motor with no worries at all)

Displacement HAS its place, but when balance and weight and stock looking rule --well, hmmmmmmm

My engine looks totally stock on the outside and its just a 2056 with a 9550, 9to1CR, 96mmflattop pistons, Djet Fuel Injected.

I can easily take your stock 2 liter, keep it stock stroke and bore and get you a very usable 125HP IF you use programmable EFI or carbs, with stock FI you are limited to 110HP safely-period..

My kits are a very comprehensive way to correctly optimize an engine, they include things that most people don't realize are included. I have removed the guesswork for you with the kit program and of course that isn't free...

Spend money now, or spend it later- do it right or you'll be doing it again.

Listen to my radio show every week!!!

Do your research!! search, search, search and join my forums too!

20 hp! how did you measure
that ? Sounds like snake oil

Well I guess you had better spend all your money with the other guy - cause HE is the ONLY one in the world that can do it right -many, many on here will attest to such-- I , by that statement, was NOT selling anything at all--- remember that.

Snake oil.....

So what is your motors specs? Can you post a dyno sheet?

Dude, I have posted, posted some more, and them reposted my specs........I ain'tosting them no more...

I ain't selling anyting...... your man is king...nobody, but nobody, not McMark, or anybody else cvan do what he do.............


BUT---I and Nando WILL post the marks when my friend gets his ride fully built -- But then agasin, I ain't sellin anythin...........

Dude, I am over 50 and can't nor want to remember everything that has been posted on these BBS's.
Ya don't want to post ok....but it makes it harder to believe.

How far over 50 are you??? I say I have posted and posted some more - if you have made the choice to not do a "search" that is YOUR problem not mine brother man.. You may try to denounce me,you may try to obliterate me, you may try to make the "man" king among all. But even to an uneducated fool your testiment is without merit......

Point is, do not step into the ring if you do not know the opponent......I can and will be your friend. But never at the expense of a false................

You know man, really think about this - Just who are you loyal to and why??



I am not looking for an answer -----

Thinking of a 914 with 125hp..
the 914 is only about 2500 pounds, correct?
well didnt the old 911's have about 170HP
and were a hell of a lot heavier, im curious to feel a 914 with 125HP

how does it compare to stock?
anyone with experience in the contrast of the two?

Hello again James, this opinion is completely unbiased---ANY teener, with a minimum of 110 HP on curvy roads with a VERY capable wheel man is .......in a word...UNSTOPpABLE

Now take your question of 125 HP --

It STILL takes skill at the wheel....But as an example. I live in Miami metropolis...I have north /south.east/west roads. Straight for 20 miles and 150 stoplights...

In THIS scenario, as almost any Porsche, WE are at THE disadvantage.....Porsches have NEVER been known for striaight line dominance, it is our ability to keep the pedal floored in the curves which has given glory........

Figure on about 2200 lbs......with an empty tank, about 2300......with removing tar paper about 2100.........if you are URY914...about 1400 lbs and change........

225 HP would dominate a corvette


300 will dominate a Ferrari / Lambo

400 will dominate an .............................

quick edit: it is late and I a intoxicated at home........ URY ..I know you are looking, ......

I do have something to sell so I am biased, but I am sure that I offer the easiest way to pick up 10hp from an otherwise stock 2 liter engine. The only things you have to do are swap out the exhaust system and retune the MPS to gain big midrange torque and top end. No engine removal, no rebuild, nothing else required as long as the engine runs well to start with. Total cost - about $2K.
A side benefit is that when you get around to a rebuild the exhaust will keep up with most any improvements you make to the engine.

Forgive my ignorance Chris but what is the MPS, (mass p? sensor)? Also, great picture... I see a couple of teeners, a Scirocco & an S10 all racing. I happen to own a couple of teeners, a Scirocco & an S truck. Freaked my ass out!
On my 2.0 D-jet 74 I wanted to stay as stock as possible so I opted for the OEM euro pistons, (they're good for 5 horses), a K&N air filter, Pertronix ignition, SS heat exchangers & a Bursch tuned exhaust. When I get a chance I'm going to have my throttle body bored out to a 50mm & be done w/ my quest for more power & staying stock unless Jake tells me he has a cam for me that will kick a** w/ my combo. Best of luck my friend, lots to choose/think about.

MPS is Manifold Pressure Sensor.

(The s10 is a Datsun 510.) That car is a former National Championship winner.

Euro pistons will not add 5hp all by themselves, but the Grassroots Motorsports Project 914 did get 115hp from a mostly stock 2 liter with d-jet, retuned MPS, euro pistons and a Tangerine exhaust system.

A Datsun?! Wow, it looks to me like the front end of a lowered 94+ chevy S10, not the old 510. Been a long time since I've seen a Datsun period. Guess the bed should be a little longer if it were a truck! Now we know where GM got their sytling cues from . Chris do you retune MPSs? As for the 5hp supposedly gained w/ euros I'm basing that on factory data- USA GA 2.0 7.6/1CR 95bhp@4900rpm vs. the Euro GB 2.0 8/1CR 100bhp@5000rpm. I have been unable to find any other differences between the GA vs. GB besides the pistons. It was my understanding they share the same camshaft. Having driven my car before & after I have to say I did notice an increase in torque but I'm still too much of a wimp to take her anywhere near 90mph . That's what I have the six for.

I have tested extrude honed heads... The result was very poor mixture quality, heavy BSFC numbers and tuning issues due to the overly smoothed intake ports.. This engine was carbureted so it responded differently than that of a FI engine that has much better, less particular mixture motion due to the highly atomized fuel compared to carbs- so results will vary...

On a stock engine it takes more than headwork to get 20HP- period. The stock heads are capable of making 20HP more with nothing but a cam swap! Using even larger ports with a loss of port velocity coupled to the stock cam and CR would result in a doggish, less powerful stock engine that could not be tuned and it would have a worthless usable power band.

Now, WTF is wrong with being a product developer that just happens to be in the retail world that cares enough to offer opinions to help less knowledgeable folks make wiser decisions based on real data and facts????

Absolutely nothing in my opinion, step right up Jake and tell it like it is.

I am still doing another V8 just because I like the sound.

Get a 9550 cam and lifter set from Jake that kick's ass and brings a smile to your stock 914 2.0L.
The MPS will need to be tuned. You already have the other basic upgrades but don't waste time on the 50mm boring of the TB.

Back to your original question.... Sounds like you want to do exactly what I wanted to do when I started my project on my '76. I did the euro-piston kit, and early 2.0 exhaust, w/bursch muffler.

I didn't plan on separating the case and getting to the cam, but I could SEE the wear pattern on the lobes, so I bit the bullet and did the cam as well. Then, while I was in there, I checked the crank, had the journals micro-polished, and installed new bearings all around. These are minor costs as long as you're doing the cam.

I bought the new pistons/cylinders at EBS Racing, as well as their 2.0 rebuild kit, which included new valve guides and new rod bushings. In the end, I shipped the guides and bushings back along with the heads and had them do the heads as well.

My SSI exhaust ('76 conversion kit) and the Bursch muffler are from AA. I didn't know about Racer Chris or Tangerine or any of that stuff, which certainly warrants a look these days....

Originally, I was planning on going to a K&N air filter, but did some research, and decided not to. Too many reports of them not being as effective a filter, and only minor reduction in restriction.

The engine pulls noticeably stronger, mostly due to (I think) the new exhaust. The combined effects of 8.0:1 compression, new cam, a fresh rebuild add up, but I suspect each alone is kind of minimal.

I went with a cam that is only a few degrees more aggressive than stock, timing-wise, but with higher lift. I'm using the stock D-Jet, and it's idling and running fine, although I still need to fine-tune the MPS this season.

The place to really focus, research-wise, is on the cam. You can't easily change that later. Some people can do it in a weekend, but that wasn't my goal- I never ever want to take the engine out of the car again, muchless separate the case. I would certainly defer to the experience of 914.world and take a close look at Jake's family of cams......

Also, since my car was running fine before, I spent a few years collecting the parts. I watched for year-end sales, like at EBS and AA, eBay, etc, and saved a bunch of money. For some reason parts are more expensive when the car is apart than when you're still enjoying it on the road. Plus, things are getting discontinued at such a rate that snaring them while you can, and having them on the shelf, sure feels good later when you need them!

Good luck!

Thanks for the recommendation & how is this achieved?

You can send the MPS to me for adjustment or rent a LM1 meter, open up the MPS and turn the inner and outer screws until the AFR is correctly set on multiple road passes. Then set the WOT plug (screw).

The cam is the big pain since you have to open up the engine but its worth it.

The 9550 cam drops the CHT's much cooler too so you are not burning up heads.

Turbo you 2.0 9lbs. of boost aprox. 160HP Fassssssssssst!

try again

is that VW CIS F.I.? was ejm's car?

k

That's a nice looking installation. Do you have a photo of the bottom side? Exhaust routing? Thanks!

Got to give it to you... it's not stock but it is the most bang for your $ by far & from here looks damned nice !

Yes, that is CIS from a VW GTI. The turbo is a kkk 26 from a 944 turbo.

the CIS on my jetta has performed flawlessly for 240k+ mi and has never failed to pass emissions. great system.

k

SO I think I was just reading through the engine thread you are defending.

Pffftttt. So is this the Be all end all bad ass 1.7L ?

Shoot you bring that car down here. or Better yet we will all converge at your place. My 60,000 mile 2.0L motor will whip you BADLY.

I find very little in the way of HP making modifications.
Just enough to keep you out of stock class at any Autocross.

Installed in 2001.It hasn't been touched since my dyno work. 70K and no wrench yet!

OK
2200lb car 125HP = 17.6 pounds per HP
1780lb car 110HP = 16.1 pounds per HP (current Red Neck Racer)
1780lb car 140HP = 12.7 pounds per HP (future Red Neck Racer) if I can make that much HP.


Friends don't let friends drive stock.

I read your Nando thread and still missed the big hp mods you did to the engine??
a 1911 thats all?

I NEVER said anything about modding HIS motor - And it is not a 1911 either, it is a 1.8L - Take a break, take a step back, take several deep breaths, and when you are ready to start berating me again have it bro - I refuse to be baited ---It is not nice to do this stuff on another nice gentleman's thread, it is serious poor form....I do not have or have the need to PROVE anything to YOU,, have a nice day..

Maybe you should step back from the keyboard..

I just have asked for some effin engine specs on your hotrod engine...

damn, its like asking to have Karl Rove speak before congress.......

Don't talk about Dad like that!

You know, I want to extend an apology to you. I have trouble keeping up with all the A-holes on here who continually and without merit jump all over me when I try to explain:

You CAN have very good, decent HP for a lot less money than SOME would have you believe.....

I was pretty intoxicated the other night, badly hung over all day, and confused you with the sorry seven....it was not until I re-read this whole thread I figured it out...Maybe perhaps the way you came off in your postings, you see how I took it...