I might take my 914 to the track. Brakes are mediocre, and I have read as many threads as possible regarding this issue. Car has new rotors, pads, fluid, caliper rebuild, etc.

Pads, I believe, are "mintex" as replaced by the prior owner. Car stops adequately in everyday traffic, barely adequately on the highway. The brakes do not lock up, ever. Previous owner bled the system multiple times, replaced the lines, etc.

So, would porterfield pads make a BIG difference??? Most of the threads mention that the stock system is "great", and can be locked up, assuming you have a properly working system and porterfield pads.

Would changing the pads make a world of difference, or is it a waste of time? The porterfield pads will run 300$ or so for all 4 wheels. The BMW front brake upgrade will run the same.

Which option is better???

performance pads are better.

I run hawk pads on my supercharged mustang, much better than stock, john and i were laughing last night about trying to stop that thing is like trying to stop a train...

porterfield R4s

I think you can find Porterfield R4s for about 140 or so, I can't find my link for it though. Some shop in the bay are I think.

Can you clarify this.

Would changing pads likely make a difference between being able to lock the brakes and not?

Would I truly appreciate a difference in stopping distances? If the difference in changing pads is subtle, I suspect that changing to the bmwcalipers would be the way to go.

Has any one JUST changed pads, and then noticed a "WOW" difference? Or is the difference in changing pads more of an issue of fade resistance on the track?

The car will spend 99% of its time on the street, perhaps 3 track events a year...

As for not being able to lock up the brakes, you need to bleed, bleed & bleed the system. Speedbleeders make bleeding a whole lot faster and easier.

As for pad changes, I can't comment - but I have heard from a lot of people that the Porterfield pads are a great improvement.

You should be able to lock your stock brakes without that much difficulty. If you can't, then something is wrong in your braking system. Fix that first before looking for better pads to bandaid the problem.

What size are your tires/wheels?

Track lapping? don't bother with Porterfield R4S pads these are for street and Autocross. meaning they work great (infact awesome) in that capacity.
What you want for Track is the Porterfield R4. Need heat to stop but will not fade with rotor temps north of 650 degrees.
Ford super duty DOT3 fluid changed out the day before the event. Boiling point of 535 degrees dry. and cheaper than them fancy racing fluids.

This I can tell you as a matter of fact and "your milage will not vary"

Stolen and "modified" text:

"Mintex brake pads have a silver metallic formulation that gives the brakes a distinctly shitty feel while eliminating stopping power, brake squeal and dust."

Do NOT use semi-metallic pads on "any" 914.

For most applications what resellers list as OEM (Textar, Jurid, Pagid etc.) organic pads are usually best. You don't need Porterfields to "lock-up" your brakes. You simply need decent pads, especially if what you said is true: new rotors, pads, fluid, caliper rebuild, etc. For high performance applications I agree with the Porterfield street recommendations.

Those Mintex pads are killing you... BMW calipers would be money and time wasted.

with her. Although... 99% street (as stated) I would go with the street pads. The one's Joe is talking about need to heat up to work properly. Not good for a street or autocross car.

I run straight R4 pads and they work just fine when cold. My only complaints are that they can squeal loudly at times and make a lot of dust. Carbon's hard, so it can sound like metal on metal. Fun (annoying).

They're fine for street cars,

Give these a try:
Porterfield
See last paragraph.... R4-S

OK, well then I guess you will have to pick through all the bull and then go do exactly what you think is right.

But please do us all a favor . Keep the track pads on the track or never drive behind me.

I bought the R4 pads directly from Rich Bontempi and he claims he has never had any trouble with them on his customer's street cars.

"Lots of people use the R4 on the street for normal driving. They stop quickly, don't need to be hot to work well, and then will work great when you go to any track event, or drive hard on the street. That's the only Porterfield that I stock."

I've been running these pads since early April, 99% on the street and up at Thunderhill. I have a stop light and a stop sign less than a block from my door and I've never had any trouble stopping.

Have you used R4 pads on the street? I'm guessing not. If you're coming to the WCR, I'll happily let you drive my car to see for yourself.

Cheers,

I think we're all confused.

Are you taking it to a track (as stated), or, is it 99% street (as stated)?

Better yet, what kind of a track events?

A simple DE with PCA or other sanctioning body at a big track would probably be OK for a couple of laps with good pads (not Mintex). An autocross track would be fine with decent organic pads or some nice Porterfields.

Again, either way, I'd recommend dropping your el cheapo Mintex pads and getting some run of the mill organic pads "at least". Adjusting the rear venting clearance can help as well. I'd venture to say 90% of the cars out there haven't set them properly.

Eric is too kind. If I see the words "BMW Caliper" and "upgrade" used in the same sentence I will become violent.
Even with the mintex pads you should be able to "lock up" your brakes. Mine are good with Mintex pads. Of course, mine are PMB rebuilds and everyone knows that brake calipers rebuilt by polygamists are better... Yes Eric, I will get rid of the Mintex pads...

Just wait til ya get some real pads in there.

Really scares the wives

The PMB rebuilds you did for me are probably going to go up for sale. Harvey
Wiedman is doing some RSR wheels for me and I am going 5 lug. I need to get some struts and place an order with you for some trailing arms pretty quick though...

R-4 or R-4s?

There is a difference.

And what does he charge? I need a set

So, where is a good place to get Porterfields? I did a google, not many vendors.

Porterfield

Well, I could bleed the system...again. The pedal really doesn't feel that bad.

Not much happens for the first inch or so, then its progressive, but never locks. Seems like the first 50% of travel, you get proportionate braking, and the last 50% does proportionately less braking. The pedal never bottoms out.

So again, do the porterfields create MORE friction. It sounds like folks are implying that it does - correct???

Yes the Porterfields have more friction. I found the link for purchasing the pads

http://www.livermoreperformance.com/porsch...tml#Porterfield

Which is about $130 for 914-4 brakes and about $10 more for the BMW fronts.

Again, if you can't lock up your brakes now, there is an issue (probably bleeding the system)

R4, not R4-S

I bought a bunch of stuff and don't remember the price. Give him a call:

650-364-6234

Shea,
Does PMB carry the porters?

Not yet.

I have the app. and have toyed with doing a group buy to get it started. Who wants them?

I would put 4S pads on any street/auto-x car.

Ahhhh... we do all kinds of calipers. I smell a Ferrari caliper conversion and some Carrera calipers in your future. That is...






















...IF WIFEY LET'S YOU BUY THEM!!!

(she needs to keep you on a short leash!)

I'm in on a group buy

Anybody have any experience with EBC Green Stuff pads?? Mills914/s has a set and he really likes them. They sound similar to the R4s' but cheaper.

Also, IIRC, there are two different thicknesses for the front pads depending on which year you have. My calipers are from a '72 but I can't remember if the pads are thicker or thinner.

Sorry for the highjack

Aaron is a man of few words these days (since he got an actual "live" GF).

Yes, the Porterfield R4 pads will make you gasp the difference is that great over stock pad options. I took a 914 with functional stock brakes and installed new rotors and Porterfield R4 pads all around. Night and day. I could lock up the brakes easily. Stopped on a freakin dime whenever I wanted. I personally got lots of brake dust from them, but others have said they did not. YMMV on that point, but they will stop you like nothing I've ever seen in a stock 914 brake option.

I bought my R4 pads mentioned in the above post from Rich as well. Perhaps that's why they dusted more than others stated (on a past thread regarding a similar discussion). We might have the been talking about the difference between the street pads and the race pads.

Anywho... Speaking from actual experience, the R4 pads do work perfectly well on the street. While it's a generalization that most race pads won't, these will. Having said all of that, if I were only going to do occasional autoX and otherwise mostly street, I would probably buy the street versionn to avoid some dusting and sequeeling that Randy mentioned as I had the same issues. Back then I was doing PCA DE's as well and wanted a good track that would work well on the street. The Porterfield definitely filled that order.

I'm kind of suprised nobody has mentioned, but which master cylinder is installed and is it leaking?

Re: EBC -- I have personal experience with EBC Yellow on my MINI. They work great once they get some heat in them. When cold, they squeal unless large amounts of brake force are used. I put the OEM pads back on after my track time was done. Others I know who have run Green and Yellow on cars that see both street/track use love them (E36 M3, MR2 turbo, 968). They prefer EBC over the similar Hawk products. None have tried Porterfield.

On my 914, I currently have Hawk pads. Once they wear out I have a set of Porterfields to install. I really like the Hawks, but finding fronts for M calipers was difficult so I went for Porterfield. The Hawks get dusty at the track, but on the street they are not so dusty and don't squeak.

Im running "EBC GREEN STUFF" the street version of ebc's line I love them and they work great for everyday driving. And stop great with no fade. I broke them in and went up hwy 9 and came back down the hill. At the bottom they were hot and still stoped great. Dont run ebc/yellow or red if your doing any street driving. Ebc says they only perform when HOT. But the green stuff does. They are a great pad I love them. But as mudfoot said I have never tried porterfield's yet. The ebc's are good and dont cost an arm and a leg.

Brake pads can make a huge difference in pedal feel and stopping power.

If the brake pedal doesn't compress to the floor when you're stopping hard in an attempt to lock the weels, bleeding the brakes will NOT help you lock the wheels. The purpose of bleeding the brake system is to remove air and flush old fluid that has absorbed water that will boil at high temperature. It can certainly help pedal feel by getting rid of sponginess, but that isn't the problem that you've described -- so bleeding again will not solve your problem.

Fred

ROBdodger - dibs on calipers if they still look like yellow zinc
June-July = all new front suspension + brakes for my 914

You have to always treat stock brakes as a system. Pads alone wont cure issues on the track. Good quality stainless steel brake lines, high quality/high boiling point brake fluid, properly maintained calipers, rotors in good shape, good ventilation in front, quality pad from Porterfield or Hawk. All make a system that contribute to adequate stopping power on the track..

Yep I agree...My brakes sucked before....
Then Eric did my calipers..I flushed the system.
installed SS braided lines
EBC pads
4 brand new zimmerman rotors
The cars brakes are amazing now !
I couldn't be more happy with them.
Seth