I have beautiful Pirelli P6000's on my 74 & they're the wrong size... 195/60. I wish I knew about the calculator 5 years ago ! I'm putting more miles on my odometer than I should be & here's why: on the left a Pirelli 195/60 & on the right a 33 year old original Dunlop 165 R15. . The height difference is over an inch!!

I am both shocked and dismayed that you would have this 195/60 sized set of tires on your dear dad's original 74 limited edition! AND that you are even THINKING of entering this original car in the Parade next year in Charlotte with such "shoddy" rubber!! The 165 15 Coker tire michelin repro is the only one that should ever have the honor of wearing those mahle wheels and be anywhere NEAR that car!

Furthermore I demand that this topic be moved the the originality and history section so you can take the thorough thrashing that you deserve!

G- the car came w/ Dunlops! I know, I was there . The Dunlop is off of my spare & still holds 36psi. Good enough to wash my windshield & preserve a bit of history.

Dunlops are fine but unavailable. I was talking about the 195/60s!!!!!!!! THOSE have to go! (you think that at least 195/65 15s would have been installed!

on the job, plain & simple. I f*cked up & no one else to blame but me. I did not have access to the tire calculator here on the world & got the wrong size. This was 5 years ago now. I did'nt know any better. Worse news is there's about 207 miles too much on my odometer, if I've done my math right. Might be lucky though in that they, the 195/60s', might fit my Civic just perfect!

I know you do but most people don't realize what a pain it is to mount LE Mahles. One little slip/mistake & back to repaint. We both overlooked my spare 4 years ago & it was not refinished & has to be if I'm gonna get into "the Concours Wars" The "Dark Lord Garvey" is lurking in the distance w/ his evil, very clean ways . Read my blog first Pat before you say anything .

JB,
Don't beat yourself up. Go back to originals if that's what you want. I also have 195/60s on my 914. I like the improvement in handling and appearance that they provide. I also prefer the fatter, A/M steering wheel to the wispy OEM equipment. If Pat , George and assorted CW judges don't like the "improvements", I'm willing to take the point loss for them. I have the car to satisfy me first, after all.

99%... however, the additional miles on this LE is unacceptable. I'm going to take a hit for my Optima & don't give a rats a**. I will never go wet again, period. I've got SS exchangers, Pertronix ignition, Bosch Blue coil, fatter spark plug wires that look stock. I added a direct ground to the engine because I know what that did for my Civic- MPG! I'm putting in powder coated heat ducting in her & I only use K&N filters. I don't care if I take massive hits for these items, they are major improvements over the original parts & still look sort of stock. I'm not going to put 165s on her no matter what. I like my meat as well but I got to get rid of the 60s & go w/ 65s for the sake of the mileage. I'm now off the wrong way... the car has less miles than indicated, not more as most automobiles do.

Ok guys, here's what I have on my six. A509 205/65/15 94V Yoko. They are mounted on stock steel wheels with no rubbing. Before everyone starts saying to big, I have a friend who is a cop and with the help of his scout car my tires check out with in one mph at 50 mph. We also did another check at --- well, now thats another story, but, kept around a 2-3 mph (faster) than what the scout car read! I'm a CW but for the tires I take the hit. I forgot this six has a Optiam Yellow Top and also don't give a rats a##!
Gary

Gary, did you ever find a passengers door pocket?

Eric, sorry you lost me on that one. No clue why anyone would want a passengers door pocket on a 914!?!

Sorry... it's that piece under the passengers arm rest. I just called it a pocket. If I recall your's was plastic??

Eric Hehehehehehe

Thanks for the tip. I knew I wanted 205/65's, the calculator says they're it, but I was worried about rubbing. Ordered 5 Dunlop 205/65's this morning, gonna do the spare too. Tire Rack says they will fit onto a 5.5" rim... that's the smallest they can go. If this costs points at the show so be it. At least they're Dunlops & I got to have some beef under the car . Pirellis are going on the Civic. A 95 Honda Civic... w/ Pirelli P6000's. What is this world comming to?

you better NOT put those 205 tires on that coveted car!

I thought the calculator says:
195/65/15 or
205/60/15 will give you the closest circumference.

I have a feeling this is probably a bit like shoe size, one company's size 11 is not like another's...

I'm looking for 195/65 for a set of Fuchs I bought as a spare "driving" set and am up for recommendations as well. I'll keep the 165 on the steel wheels in case I ever, ever show it!

Paul

205/60 would be damn close but... I've had nothing but problems fitting them on the rear of a stock bodied car.

Now this worries me... 205/60 is still too small according to the diameter indicator & 65s' are a hair over, which is better for the odometer. The problem now is if E thinks 205s' are too wide for a stock car what difference will the height matter to me... my 205's are on the way?!

Nope, both of those are inside the blue circle. 195/70s' are 1.4% outside the circle & 205/65s' are 0.4% outside the blue circle. Those are the 2 sizes that are still available & closest to stock ride height. Again, it's not the spedometer accuracy I'm after, it's the odometer- the car is still under 50K mi. after 33 years. That, keeping her fully operational, clean & rust free are my main goals w/ the car. I have the six now to play with & have fun with.

So what are you saying G? I need 5 more perfect Mahles just to put 165s' on?!! Concours is a pain in my rear! Boy this is it- the LE is going to be the only path I take down the CW road. I will not put a wet cell in her, even for 5 minutes. Where are the renegade purists ? The guys who want to play w/ stock factory parts & make teeners better ? CWs' can't look down too bad on "pure mods" ? "We" need our own Forum .

And you will my friend. Why? They're all bolt-on items! You 914 will be the freshest restoration out there! Why would you give up the chance for F_cking steering wheel? Are you nuts? And...you can't have a spare set of tires/wheels, after all you've spent on the restoration? Are you nuts? You could whip all of us!
Pat

I think 205's are a risk for rubbing on the rear fender lip. No risk with 195/65. I hope you can return them if they won't fit.

You will probably have serious problems in the rear. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you though. Check out Gints thread on wheels and tire sizes. He physically measured something like 4 different brands and they all varied... you may get lucky.

Many are able to fit 205/50's under stock fenders, especially with a stiff rear suspension. They are so short that the fat part of the tire is well below the fender lip. The 205/60 series is often a problem and the 65 will be worse because it is so tall that the fat part is at the lip.

I cancelled the 205s' & am going w/ Dunlop 195/65s'. A hair too small but they'll fit. I caved to pressure

You will be happy with them. I think innate speedo error will be greater than the difference in tire size from stock. And 30mm more width is plenty.

I'm also in the market. Dunlop what model, why, what else did you look at?

Paul

I went w/ Dunlop SP Sport A2 Plus (High Performance All-Season) 195/65 HR 15s', for several reasons: the size, performance type, price-$59.00/per @ the "Tire Rack" & the car came w/ Dunlops originally. Maybe I'll catch a break for having the "right" brand, even though they're not the "right" size. I also got 5 so I could do the spare as well. Speedo will be 1.6% too fast w/ that size or 60mph will really be 59.02mph. That is a miniscule discrepancy for the odometer & I had 195/60's on her now so I know they'll fit. Stock Mahle 4 bolt burners.

205s' arrived today & I sent them back. Later on, 3 of my 5 195/65s' showed up. Attached is a photo of an original Dunlop 165/80 on the left, a Dunlop 195/65 in the middle & a Pirelli 195/60 on the right. Too late now but I wonder if 195/70s' would have fit?

BTW: Dunlops- amazing tread difference in 33 yrs .

I'm looking at the Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S in 195/65. I have a good local tire guy and I mentioned the wheel size to him on Monday as I drove past his shop. Told him I was thinking about Michelin. Yesterday I drive in to look at tires in general and he tells me he has a set coming in tomorrow for me to look at.

Paul

Wait, Wait, Wait!
I fear I'm going to go into ANOTHER one of my lengthy diatribes here! Yep I am, dammit!
Look, having a CW 914 is a matter of personal taste, regardless of the rules for FULL CW.

Why? Because we don't al/allways play at the ultimate level. If you have a nice 914, you can almost always play well at the local level, because you're your own class at many. Cool/clean 914's rule here. Usually non-original items are judged to be insignificant. yeah it's not REALLY concours, but you get to play.

Regional - you'll need to play harder. If it's a PCA Regional, you may as well be at a Parade. But...still, how many 914's will be there? And how many will be hardcore? Chance you take, but sometimes the little "personal nuances" will be able to slip by.

Multi-marque? The best. Come in with a slick 914, really clean. You can beat Ferraris, Jags, etc - but it had better be REALLY clean. Been there - done that. believe me, it's an ago trip to whip a Ferrari or Jag, or '57 T-Bird, but it's only because the judges at these events are ignorant - not be choice, but necessity.

PCA Parade! The Holy Grail of Porsche concours. Yep, there are too many classes, but you can pick you're own level of competition. Just about any 914 has a place in the Parade, but pick your class carefully.

I started out in concours at the Parade full-concours level. That's where I will stay, whatever it is called. But, don't let that scare away others - there is a class for you, even if you want to have a dry cell battery!

The key here is - preservation. Every time you enter a concours, at whatever level, you are representing the 914 marque. Do it where you're comfortable. Tires? Buy what you're happy with. Just play!
Pat

I am participating in a OE tire discussion on the 912 Registry. Some are recommending against the spendy Coker Michelin xzx's because they ride too hard (I think they are talking about OLD versions, not the Coker repros). Some recommend the Verdenstein (sp?) instead. Any opinions here? I have a 912 but don't hold that against me please. Going back to original chromes with caps and 165's as Ferdinand and Butzi intended.

Damned ass dragger! Don't know about the tires you mentioned but have you checked if Khumo has the size? They're not bad, got them on my truck, & the classic 914 165/80/R15s' are only $34.00/per @ the Tire Rack. They feel nice & @ that price you can afford to buy new tires every 2 years .

Yep, Kuhmo Roadstar 165x15 is under $40 per. Had some on a 66 911 with stock 4.5 wheels a few years ago. No complaints. The CW in me keeps looking at the Michelins. And they cost about $100 per more! It's a disease I tell you!

Disease? Unfortunately if it is, it's fatal . I've been watching eBay for more Mahles, so I can mount 165s on them .

First of all the above statement is not to be taken seriously by anyone. I am not buying 4 more wheels & mounting tires on them unless I can do all 4 for under $50.00 .

I brought this thread back up because more issues seem to have arisen regarding concours & tires. There are roughly 4 165R15 tires that are radials, available & tubeless- Kuhmo Powerstar 758, something called a Lexington, something called a Futura & the 165HR15 VREDESTEIN SPRINT BLACKWALL TIRE. I've been informed that since Kuhmo was not around in 1974 I'd get knocked for them. I've never heard of any of those other brands so what is a concours weenie whore, , supposed to do?

VREDESTEIN are crap tires IMHO

Do what I am saving my pennies for, Coker Tire Co., Michelin XZX, 165x15. Nothing is more "correct". Unfortunately, you can buy 4 of the Kuhmos for the price of one Michelin!

George,

I'm in the same boat as Al, except I need 5 for a '72 (originally came w/165 Continentals). Even though my Cinturatos have over 90% tread, they're 28 years old & must go. I've also have a set of 195/60 Yoko A008R's for my chrome (street)rims, but they are ancient also.

The issues I have with the Coker Michelins are:
1. Old tire technology
2. Tube required
3. Cost! A set of 5, with tubes & mounting by a shop that won't touch my wheels is going to set me back around $1,500! For old tech!

Haven't come to grips with this yet, and open to alternatives.

Pat

There is no XZX, only the XAS, which is a tubed tire. Am I missing something on the Coker website that says XZX?? I've checked The Tire Rack & the only tire they have in that size is a Kuhmo. Discout Tire Direct does not carry the size, period.

Pat, are you sure about the tube issue? I spoke with Coker and that was not mentioned. I have a vintage (OE) XZX spare in my trunk and it is tubeless. At $137 per, plus shipping and mounting, I see about $900 for 5 (which is still too damn much). As to Technology, I think the tires match the technology of our near 40 year-old car pretty well. And you don't drive yours much anyway!

definitley a tubed tire-

http://store.coker.com/product.php?product...at=0&page=1

Can anyone find another tire that is tubeless, radial & a 165HR15 besides the Kuhmos & Vredesteins? Did either of these brands exist in 1974? I don't know about everyone else, but I'm starting to feel real good about going w/ Dunlops. Wrong size or not they're OEM. Better start writing up my protest to PCA for next summer. Nothing like being prepared & having done your homework.

I was suggesting the XZX, not the XAS which is tube-type. I do not believe the XAS was ever OE on 914's. The 165 size I think was used on British wire wheel cars, thus the need for a tube. My '69 912 still has the original spare (very cracked!) and it is a tubeless XZX 165SR15.
Here you go:

http://store.coker.com/product.php?product...at=0&page=1

The Vredesteins were around in the 70's I believe but were never OE to my knowledge. If originality is the goal the Michelin is the tire.

Jim- thanks. I did not see that listed becasue it's an SR, not an HR. Original Dunlops were HR rated, I still have my old spare- saved it just for history. So I have to downgrade the car to have an acceptable tire... I think I still have a good argument for getting my Dunlops or, making PCA realize that the Khumos & Vredesteins are it now. The XZX is a downgrade for an LE.

Having fitted lots of tires to lots of old Porsches, I encourage you to go 195/65 with the Dunlops if they are available in that size. That is the closest modern size to the 165's of old. It looks as tall in the wheel well and keeps speedo/gearing very close to stock (off only about 1.6%).

Personally, except for the cost, I would go with the Michelins. No judge will ever dispute that tire and I doubt there is a judge who would know that an LE came with H rated tires.

Jim- I'm glad you approve of my choice, especially since I have them already .

My last remaining original "Dunlop SP57" on the left & my new "Dunlop SP Sport A2+" on the right. Both are HR rated & both are "SPs". I will gladly take a hit for my Optima, but I think I have a serious leg to stand on regarding tires- PCA does not approve of the brands available to me for an HR rated, tubeless radial in a 165HR15 so what other choice do I have?

I guess it is the old "catch 22". Either go with an S rated tire that came on new 914's and be close to original that way, or a wider modern sized tire of the same brand and speed rating as came new on your car. If I'm the judge, I think the S rated tire is more "original". But in this matter you are the judge!

Exactly! Am I resto or preserves? Size over speed rating on the tires? Optima or wet cell? I just don't know & seem to be raising a whole bunch of interesting questions. No one knows this car better than me so if I was judging an LE I'd cave into reason. The car is supposed to have HR rated tires... it's one of the things that made it an LE. Where's the damned frustration emoticon?