My engine will get broke in as I drive it the event. 186 miles 1 way.

Might go around the block a few times and then out on the main drag for a full power pull to make sure the jets are big enough.

Mark! Lets build it! If we do it together we can be sure to screw up at least two or three times!!! I will stay out of the way so you can keep your concentration

Rob,

Sorry, I missed your post until just now. I know right where that is. Reinforcements would be appreciated. I've never tackled a car restoration before and I am learning on the fly. Thankfully, both of my brothers have done it and they do a little of this and a little of this when I ask for help. Your motor sounds great. I've given STRONG consideration to one of Jake's 2563 kits. Right now, I've decided to go with a 3.2 but, who knows, I may change my mind yet again, especially if I have difficulty tracking down a nice motor.

I'd take a 2270 over a 3.2 every day of the week. 3.2 is faster overall, but a 2270 has more balls down low (according to my ass-o-meter).

I drove it about a mile or so last night and it was a blast... Today it is going to work with me. That will be the longest jaunt so far. I will probably drive it daily for a while to get some miles on the motor. Plus it makes going to work fun
As an aside to Mark, the shifter is now moving nicely. I guess I was just finding my way around a 901 again.
I took a corner really hard, one that I have had the rear come out when I get in to the gas too soon. Now, it hooks right up. Very nice. In fact I think I could have stayed on the gas all the way around that corner.
Owning both a 3.2 in the Carrera and the 2270 now, I would agree. The 3.2 doesn't really wake up until 4K RPM, when it does wake up you will smile really big. The 2270 is paying plenty of attention from the moment you turn the key until the 7200 RPM redline.

Chuck,
I am always a little stunned when I see the number of 914 guys in Minnesota. For the longest time, I had one of the only 240Zs around that hadn't rusted to the ground. Still have it. It came from California.
One of my best friends from high school (Robbinsdale) can hook you up with a guy that ran a VW Porsche shop in Hopkins until he retired. Now he sells parts that he collected over the years on Ebay... PM me if you want his number.
I like the feel of a six but I have to admit there is a balance, a kind of light feel that gives the car precision that goes away when you are in a six. I own both so I guess I can say that. In fact if you are really bent on a six, I will sell you mine.

Rob and Mark,

That is part of the problem for me in deciding: I've never ridden in, much less driven, either a big 4 or a 6. I haven't even driven my car for that matter with the stock 4; it came home on a trailer.

Like I told Jake that night, I have no intention of racing this car and I don't care if it goes 145 or 175 - I'll never drive it up there anyway. What I do want is a car that accelerates!!! I want a car that will pin you in the seat coming out of a tight turn. I want a car that will squat and go when you merge onto the highway or pass. I want the ultimate STREET car.

For some people that is a big 4. For other people that is a 6. I have a hunch either one would get me where I want to go but I'm having to guess based on what others with experience owning them and driving them are saying, read between the lines, and try to draw my own conclusions.

Personally, I don't understand the 4 vs 6 pissing match. Both are incredible options and maintain the spirit and design of the car. That's why I kind of go back and forth. As someone else on here said "if it doesn't make your rearend suck cotton, why do it?"

It says a lot though Rob that you are selling your 6 and keeping the 2270.

.

And thats nothing that a dyno graph can explain. Its exactly what we have been shooting for since day one with the 2270 combo.

It's due largely in part to the excellent mixture quality of the intake ports in uni-syn with the internal comnbination and is further enhanced by the Tangerine exhaust.

The engine combo begins at the entrance of the air filter and ends at the tail pipe.

And that's why you and your combos are so highly regarded!!

I've gone from absolutely no way putting a 6 in to a suby to a big 4 to a ? I'm just going to go strip paint and and

I am in the very same boat as you, Chuck.

I think I would be happy with any well-done engine upgrade that approaches 200hp in a 914.

I LOVE the sound of a Porsche six. I want that! But when a 2270 with a smaller price tag can produce more streetable grunt and weigh 200lbs less, I lean back to the 4.

I have often considered a Subaru STI motor. Seems to have the ultimate weight / big-power balance. But I don't think I'm going that way because I want to stay air cooled.

If I was going water cooled, I think I would go with a 327 v8. For a street car, I don't think you could do anything that would put more smiles on your face for the price. Of all the 914 big power upgrade options, the V8 is the only one I've driven. And it rocks. Guaranteed to satisfy when driving. And a whole lot of fun visiting with the guys at the car shows or the local drive in.

I wish I could drive a strong 4 and a six to get a personal comparison.

As of THIS MOMENT, here is where I am at... And it all depends on the budget:

1. If money wasn't an issue, I would go with a premium 3.6 six. To me that is ultimate. It has it all... Porsche, air cooled, abundant power, the sound, etc.

2. If somebody handed me a $10,000 check and said, "Decide NOW," I would send it to Jake and get a big 4. Bolt in, plenty of performance, and the ideal weight balance.

3. If I had $5000 and two months off to work on it, I would buy a crate 327, spend the rest at Renegade Hybrids for conversion parts, and build it myself.

I would be 110% satisfied with any of those for how I'm using my car.

I will probably end up going with one of Jake's kits someday. Considering all costs of doing a quality build, labor/time and dollars, I think that is the best net value.

(P.S. I mentioned the sound of a six, but no I wouldn't base a motor decision on sound. )

Sound and looks are not what engines are designed for. They play woay more of a role in the selection of an engine than they should to most people.

What if the MassIVe 4 had the appeal of the 4 cam carrera engine????

Thats coming, fully developed in 2008 and is underway now. Want sound?? If you have ever driven a 4 cam equipped car you'll now what I am talking about.

I am going to RennWagen Motor Company in Jackson Hole Wyoming the end of October to test the 4 cam engine in various stages of tune as well as model the engine's cooling system in solidworks for the most authentic reproduction possible. It doesn't get more "Porsche" than the 4 cam Carrera engine. I finished this 1600cc engine for a '59 Speedster Carrera GT in 2004, here it is in all it's glory at Aircooled Heaven.




Its not just going to have a look and a sound, but it will work just as effectively as it did on the original engine, thats why I am going to Wyoming-to gather data to aid with this development.

But it won't bolt onto a six :-)

Ahhh, I always thought of 4CamCooling on a Type 4.

Its going to look very similar, same dual inlet fan and very similar internal shroud characteristics, well at least those that will remain the same considering the huge difference in surface area we have when compared to the 4 cammer.

It's the RAT X4CS....

The trip to work was a blast... The torque is incredible. Downshift??? We don't need no stinkin' downshift. Just a little squeeze on the loud peddle and off you go, darting happily through the traffic... This engine acts just as happy in the traffic as the stock motor. No bad performance engine manners at all...

Everytime I get out I get down and look underneath. No drips. We did good Mark!

I agree 2270 is perfect street motor for somone who uses the car for weekend fun and occasional AX. T4 is far superior in my mind for AX as you can keep the car lightweight when compared to a big heavy 3.2.

Smaller low displacement sixes can be a hell of a lot of fun too, but they are more of a single purpose power plant. My car for example is only a track car. I spend most of my driving time on the track so that works for me. I get my butt handed to me at AX events, given the cars overall capability, as I have absolutely no torque in low RPM's. My old stock 1.8 T4 had more torque than my six does below 4000 RPM. However over 4500 RPM my little six will hang with 3.6 liter cars on short straights where speeds arent over 100 MPH.

Thought I broke my motor last session out at Laguna Seca, just a distributor problem that is fixed now. Car is up in Sacramento this week being dyno tuned. last motor with similar specs to mine put 228 HP to the wheels at the same shop. I'll be happy with anything over 200 hp to the wheels. Not bad for a 2350cc motor. I'll post my dyno results so you'll be able to see how a 2270 T4 crushes torque of low displacement six and then you will see how six rushes back to slay peak HP numbers.

Schatz and Krum? SVS?

I have a 2270 I got from Jake 6 months ago and my 914 has a new soul. Its not the same car and I love it. It is AWESOME! Jake, I have no regrets and everytime I drive it, its an aventure.

Glad to hear that Joe....
The weather is great up here in the mountains, you need to bring the car up this way and let me check it out!

As my only 914 experience has been limited to the tired 1.8 that came with my car and the warmed 1971 (Jake's parts) that I built for my first motor, I cannot comment on either big 4 or 6. I do welcome the chance to build another engine post-Iraq in either flavor.

I can add that I do thouroughly enjoy my 2ltr car even at modest power levels, so that all of World may know that there is more to our hobby than ultimate power, more is generally better though.

Jake, at the top of this page you mention 4cam development. It was not entirely clear to me if this was in reference to cooling system retrofit or more? Was that a lead in to a 4 cam or OHC T4 being in the works?

OHC exists already.


4 cam, thats a totally different story.
Build it! build it!

Top secret Pirate grotto.

Argggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg!!!

Yes, what we are beginning development of now is the 4 cam style cooling system for the Type 4 engine based internally on my DTM theory.

This time next month I'll be amongst 1/2 dozen concourse quality 550 and RS 60/718 Porsches and will have at my disposal one each of the 15 variants of the 547 four cam engine. I look forward to gathering the data that will will help us understand the theory of the 4 cam system so we can best apply this to my development. We'll walk away with both carved foam and solidworks models of the system installed on an original engine and it is going to be a blast!

So am I missing something, how does an alt cooling setup effect sound? Thanks in advance. Jake, not trying to minimize what you're doing just don't understand.