I have little concern over money. If people running 914world want funds or parts discounts from the banner ad vendors to run the site thats OK with me. Curious why admins picked Toys for Tots as the charity? Shouldnt we all vote on charity that this money goes to if we all share in the decision? Perhaps we should have a charity poll as well?

NO.

Let's try and focus on the current issue. Banners or no banners.

Toys-For-Tots was Saint Howard of 914's favorite charity. That is enough of a reason to pick them.

I like the banners and the revenue going to charity is fantastic!

But I think it is too hard for the admins to select 'friendly' vendors up front.

Let the community make the call via reviews and ratings. The admins should consider allowing any and all vendors to buy a banner, BUT implement a rating scheme (like cnet.com) where the community can review and rate the products & services that would be posted for each vendor. That would let the community regulate the pros from the rest. I know I'd only shop the 5 star vendors, and those that aren't would be busted in public.

What better way to let the cream to rise to the top?

I think the December to remember started with the coming out of the true intent of the club, which as it turned out was never a club to begin with but a business venture. It took some of us by surprise. Admins included. This is the main reason I voted to can the banners. This was the merging in of the business and the merging out of the membership. Nothing against the vendors, I was just worried that this would be the start of the second undoing.


Now this is a real car club. Every other car club I've been a member of has always done fund raisers like bake sales and "T" shirts and other swag to sell to members and others to raise money for a yearly awards banquet. At the end of the year all left over proceeds went to a charity choosen by the membership. Considering out membership is spread out all over the world fund raising and banquets for yearly awards are a little different.
We can do good things like all the other real clubs I've either helped to run or been a member of.

So after reading this thread there were sparks flying, and some real thought provoking replies. So I've decided in honor of the jewish guy that loved everthing about christmas from the lighted trees to songs and seeing smiling childern get toys and gifts I change by vote to keep the banners.

I love this place now. Were all starting to really form friendships. There is alot of healing still going on from the melt down. But things are really starting to feel normal. Lets try to keep things light and think about what other good deeds can we do in the future?

Howie is rolling on the floor, laughing out loud at this discussion ..... just as he did during "The December to Remember", which is why he started NARP on freebbs.com (which didn't go very well due to the existance of World and ClubNARP, but we had fun for a while with it). Also forgotten is the grief a non-member was given for asking about the original money prior to the meltdown .... smacked because he asked.

While he avidly supported "Toys for Tots", which by the way, Greg Robbins was the champion of, the actual donation from WCC05 was made to the "Special Olympics" which he was heavily involved in, AFAIR.

So, rather than attack ideas and statements, let's get on with it. Run the fucking ads .... no one seems to be bothered by them .... if there is revenue generation do what you (The Admins) want to do with it (except pay off alimony or personal bills). There are many fine causes. To attack because one was chosen of the many is stupidly ridiculous.

Oh, BTW, there was some additonal money made on the WCC05. It was used to pay speeding fines (yes, me for one), a couple of entrants' fees who couldn't really afford it and some other things I do not remember. While Howie was overly benevolent, he was thru and thru a businessman.

Flame away if you must ... but you better have a damn large gas supply.

Ok Howie, roll the thunder ...........................

PS: To paraphrase a line from Good Morning Vietnam .... "I have never seen a thread more in need of locking than this one". My apologies to Adrian Conower.

When will the poll be closed?

You nutty bastards.

Every club has a common problem: fundraising.

That's right, folks. We happen to be the luckiest damn club in the world because we have no overhead and no expenses. BUT... Having funds in a bank account means that we will always have a buffer zone. To pay for hotel costs on an event that ran overbudget. Or insurance costs for an event autocross. Or whatever.

Just because we are free doesn't mean we shouldn't protect ourselves.

So here's the plan... 5000.00 dollars. The first 5000.00 accrued goes into a bank account. Tell the vendors to send the money there until it's full. Every dollar, cent, and gnat hair after that goes to charity. We get our buffer, AND we get to donate to a very worthy cause.

Then we can spend the money based on club vote at a later date as need arises. But sticking Andy with the bill for new software and new hardware, or whoever with hotel costs EVERY YEAR. That's wrong- and that's MY vote.

I dont know much about Toys for Tots. Are they a religious charity since it appears its a Christmas based? Are they global?

I know this topic is getting beat to death. But I happen to agree with Chris here. (Even though HE really is the nutty bastard. )

As an example, I think it would have been really cool to have been able to cut McMark a check after the Hilton fiasco.


Bottom line for me though: The admins are doing an amazing job for us. I am grateful for this site that is free to us. I completely trust the leadership around here and would be happy for them to run this site however they see fit without having to ask the multitudes and deal with the madness. Ads or no ads, whatever.

Since you seem to be able to type, you should be able to Google it. I will save you the trouble and tell you it was started by the US Marine Corps Reserve.

Nevermind. Re-read the first post. Duh.

Hmmm, now there's an idea.

That's pretty funny there Grant. I am surprised that everyone hasn't figured out that your just

Eh? Mark & Mark - that's exactly what we're doing except we've picked a specific charity to make things run a little more smoothly.

i'm certainly glad i'm not the only canterous person around. plenty of rancor over this one. ya know, YOU guys are the admins. figure it out and get back to us. just do your job, PLEASE! what happens, happens...

k

I'm all for the Marines. Didnt realize they were involved. Cool! Just found their website too: http://www.toysfortots.org/documents/call%...tion%202007.pdf

Looks like a decent cause to be involved with. You have my vote for this charity!

I don't believe it was ever stated that you don't need to be a business to advertise.

I don't believe it was ever stated that you need to be a business to advertise.
Andy

I would say to keep the site clean of ads except in the vendor section unless the site needs the money.

The question was Banner advertising= Yes keep them up.

The argument I have seen the most in favor of banner adds has been something like "It allows me to quickly find the vendor" or "I get to learn about vendors that sell 914 stuff".

The argument I have seen most opposed to baner adds has been something like "it makes it seem like 914world or the members have used the vendor and are endorsing them".

I have to admit, as a new member, I did kind of think that. Call me stupid or whatever it's just what is.

The solution:
Make an advertisers page that is not of the bulletin board form.

The page will clearly indicate at the top that the following advertisers who have banners have made a donation to toys for tots for the privilege of posting their banner on the website.

The banner adds will be at the top of the page. The vendors represented by the banners will be those who deal in 914 wares. (From my understanding this is no different than it is now.)

Other vendors will be allowed to place their textual links to their websites or phone numbers with a few words about what they sell below all the banner adds.

So in essence you have “sponsored links” like Yahoo and Google which are “flashy” banners and then textual links or phone numbers (if no website) with small descriptions to other 914 vendors. All the banners will be in one place so you won’t have to go hunting for a particular one.

Imagine – all the 914 vendors listed in one place! I would visit that page often! No banner adds in the bulletin boards. As a new member, the most effective advertising is in the bottom of member auto-signatures who post often.

I can see it now...

"Chris Logan- For everything me."

And link the banner to some jihad site.



How big of a donut do I have to make?




And please don't underestimate the value of that "buffer" I mentioned. We may need to bring that up in a separate section.

I am not in anyway concerned about what the admins would do with a butt-load of cash that we give them. I trust the World administration. And their "open" policy on decisions helps to propagate that trust in me and in others. What if the site got sued for using the word "Porsche" too many times? I'm not saying that we need to hire lawyers. I AM saying that we need an insurance policy in the future of this site.

The advantage of my plan is that we simply help to strengthen ourselves first, and then give to the charities.

-Chris Logan
President Warren Tech VICA 2004-2005
President Alameda HS Key Club 2003-2005
Class President by unofficial and overwhelming vote 2005
(I ran for president and took 68%of all votes without admin approval. I didn't end up occupying the seat, but the district gave me a plaque to keep me from bitchin.)

At first I was going to vote to ditch the ads, but after reading what people are saying I voted to keep them.

I think the Toys For Tots thing is a nice touch, but once the initial commitment is over, I am curious as to why ask for payment at all at this point? I see the reasons as…

1. Venders get something out of this, so we can charge them and continue to donate the money
2. Asking for payment helps separate the men from the boys. This keeps fly by night vendors from advertising as they probably can’t afford to run the ads if they don’t have their acts together.

I am guessing it is a little of both. Assuming you are neutral on who gets to run ads, I assume this means that that anyone with cash in hand can run an ad? What if they want to run ads for something other than 914 content? What if it is for someone like Motor Meister that has such a bad rep here and elsewhere? Do you not allow them to run ads? At some point the entire “neutral” think will be hard to do and you are going to have to start saying “no” if you haven’t already.

I am just posing some questions that may come up down the road.

My personal opinion is to keep them if it helps keep alive the venders who help the entire 914 community. But the accepting money and then just giving it to a charity seems to not accomplish much (other than being a nice thing to do, but you can also leave that up to each person to decide how they want to donate). And I know that admins don’t want this to be about money, but if it was ever to get to the point that the bills stopped getting magically paid, I would suggest setting up a not-for-profit and then any funds (ads or otherwise) could be used for the sole purpose of paying the site related bills.

Two last things to say...


IBTL

...and...

Richard,
When the "December to Remember" happened, it was about money. I won't go into the details (if you really want to know, the search function is your friend), but the whole admin staff was tarred with the same brush. So we came to a consensus. Money to us is the same as kryptonite is to Superman. We were burned soo badly last December that we NEVER want to touch money again! We will not let that happen here again.

So, no money will ever be accepted by the admins for running the site. Overkill, yea! But if we never take money, there cannot be any monetary misconduct.

But we also feel that the banner ads should cost something, otherwise we will get people like me who would want a banner ad just to see my name up there.



Frankly... I wish everyone would QUIT FOCUSING ON THE MONEY!! Answer the question.... do you want banner ads or not?

Was the question answered? how long is the pole going to run? Sorry didn't want to re-read the whole thread. Lazy..

Banner ads are all about money. Kinda hard to divorce the two from each other. Given that some admins profit from banner ads for their businesses its funny to me that you dont see that.

I'm less worried than others about how funds might be used. It would be nice to use some funds to promote the 914, but if you feel charity is the best use of all funds I'll support that too.

Again I'm still all for banner ads. I think we should reward the few people who try to support our crazy hobby with as much visbility as possible.

Some? O N E admin advertises and that's Mark. He sells a service and his cutomers tend to be local. Big difference from a vendor selling a product.

914 World also carries a banner for a vendor that has been quite antagonistic of 914 World.

You, also are on record as a less than supportive 914 World advocate. Why the sudden concern?

Based on what I see in this thread the current admins are split on having banners in the first place and placed the matter on the public forum for a vote.

Quit worrying about the money, vote.

A no vote means NO money.

A yes vote also means NO money to 914 World but a charity profits.

For a smart guy you seem to not be getting the message. Unless you just want to stir the pot a little more?

OK over 100 active members have voted. I dont think stats will change much. Roughly 70% of the rational members of this forum want banner ads to continue.

So will majority rule mean we go forward with banner ads and cease this silly debate?

Uh, guys......

My suggestion (and it is only mine) would be that we have enough statistics from the poll to OK banner ads, with proceeds to be sent directly to Toys For Tots. True?

Ok then, 70% of the members are happy - right? Wouldn't it be great if our President or Congress/Senate had those kinds of positive comments?

So, let's end this thing & stop the vitriol! Jeez, if this is the most important decision we have to make........

Let the admins do the right thing.
Pat

I wanted to suggest a few things for the admins to consider...

First, I agree that money can be the "achilles heal" of a 914 community and I completely agree that all funds should go to chairity. So this is a mute point. Fantastic job thusfar.

Jason also had a great idea that I don't think recieved enough credit...



Additionally, I like the prospect of being a community that supports those who take the risk of producing products and services for our 30+ yr old 914's. If by having banners we can support guys like Eric Shea, Camp914, Engman (as well as PP & AA) then I vote yes.

I think a links page is a great idea. I would visit that page regularly. But I think any advertiser should have a thread on the "Vendor" forum where they can post information about themselves and where members here can leave feedback. If we ever get any bad apples, a poll can always be nailed in the vendors section where we can vote to keep them, remove them or put them on some kind of probation. This is a member owned community and I like the idea of members getting to choose who we support at 914world. This would help ensure quality products and customer service.

I think any of these vendors, if they provide a donation, should be allowed to advertize using our banners. I click on them quite regularly to check on prices and update my ever-growing project list.

Just my thoughts...


--------------------
Jason Angerosa

what is the big deal about money? you would think you were talking about $1000,00 of dollars. I would guess that the members spend more on liquid refreshments than they spend supporting this site and its activities. I hope the banner adds help the vendors make a few dollars. Ill bet they dont get rich on any of these endovers. I have supported most of them over the years and there products have made my 914 a better car. I am happy to endorse the banners if it makes there business more successful.

Does this poll have an end date?



admin edit: This poll is closed as of today, thank you for your participation.