I bought my car not knowing too much about 914s but I did know cars. My car doesn't have any sway bars. But it seems like some came with them. Is it an option or is there some easily observable identifier that lets you know a car came with factory sway bars?

Quite a few did not come with sway bars. I would say more came without than with.



Hmmmmmmm... well, the presence of a stock bar is a step in the right direction. When sway bars were added, most would opt for a less expensive and larger Welmesiter bar or other alternatives so, I would say, stock components would be a hint that it's a good chance the car came with them. Not always the case however.

You should be able to see the U-Tabs welded to the A-arms. A nice neat job would "probably" have come from the factory. Check the overall patina, it should be obvious.

The real test would be to pull the fuel tank and see if the mounts were added in Germany or in someone's garage (I guess they could have been added in someones garage in Germany but, you get the point). Generally this area would show welding marks as most were installed in a hurry and not re-painted under the fuel tank. Again, not always an indicator as someone might have done a first rate job but... those are rare.

If it has a rear bar you could also check to see if the rear mounts were added at a later date or factory installed. If they were factory installed, they would have been painted with the chassis and have the proper backing plates to strengthen the mount on the inside of the trunk. It would be fairly obvious.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Eric - I was more wondering why some had them and some didn't? It's obviously better to have sway bars so why didn't they all come with them? And how did the factory decide for instance "this year we're going to make 1000 with sway bars". And why didn't the ones with sway bars have some designation indicating an upgraded suspension?

We shall always wonder.

It's one car, with its broad flat hood, that will tell you striaght away if it has bars or not. I hate the handling of a 914 without a bar(s). Never could figure out why it wasn't a manditory piece.

Economies of scale I would imagine.

Sway bars first appeared on the 73's with the Appearance Group package. They came standard with that package. Most 2.0L were ordered with this option. 74-76 this was an optional item for all models. Seems like it was a $75 option.

Were the six's treated the same as the fours??

I do not think 6s ever came with them. My original, bought new 6 did not have them. Many AXers added 15 mm 911 bars. Others bought cheap aftermarket bars that did not pass thru the front trunk.

Later versions used a U bolt set-up that bolted the bar mount to the front end after you drilled the necessary holes.

There was no Weltmeister yet and not a lot was available. "Charlie Bars" were the hot set-up as I remember it. And you had[i] to have Konis or Bilsteins.

not trying to hijack... but... what exactly does the 73 apperance group consist of?

mike

I don't think it was part of the appearance group, but a part of the performance group. The small reinforcement piece in the rear trunk for the rear bar is the usual giveaway that the car came equipped with bars. I'd guess that less than 25% got factory bars. The majority of 1973 2.0 cars came with them, and the 1974 LE cars got them as standard. The tabs on the front A-arms were standard once the sway bars were an available option.

I have an orignal 73 2.0L invoice. I wish I could scan it in. Under the model in the middle of the invoice it says 473644. This is the factory RPO for the options that were on the car. The only option on this car was tinted glass $100. In my German 73 Factory info Service and Training Manual the option 473644 shows the car to be equiped with the Sport and Comfort option. The Sport option was where the f & R stablizer bars came in so I was INCORECT about this being in appeareance package.

swaybars? SWAYBARS?!? We don't need no stinkin' swaybars. Real men don't need no sway bars to compete. No bars in front, no bars in back,....we just swing and sway the 914 way

Nice Chris-Craft ya got there. Correct. Not to compete... but to win, now that's another story.

My -6 came without. Funny, the wheel wells always had the indent. Only became an option in 73?? Weird. Word.

Obviously w/o a bar, but the tabs are there. Oberconcoursfuhrer Garvey declares fitmant of a bar would be verbotan.

But the car does have excellent, functioning, concours brakes.

Paul

Have them put a bar in that thing while it's being restored. Where's Scottyb when you need him:

"Put a bar in that teener, it's the right thing to do."

I put a factory bar in my -6 when it was being re-done. I was "SOOO" happy I did. It changed the entire attitude of the car. Just a simple stock bar makes all the difference in the world.

got any pictures you could post on the rear bar reinforcement piece?

mike

So, why does my '70/4 have the tabs when the bars didn't become available 'till years later? Another 914 anomaly, perhaps?

I believe that Jason has started the great anti-sway bar debate.

In reading Paul's comment about the a-arms and seeing the obvious indent molded into the very first chassis blank (not to mention the indented ridge in the fuel tank), I would tend to think an anti-sway bar could have been checked off on an options list in 1970.

I'm prone to being wrong however. Afterall I was 8-9 years old when the said checking off of the said list were to have taken place. Now that I'm older I lack the energy to look for said list and I rely on the collective wisdom of the 914World list, better known as Wolfgang, Geoff and Mr. Pateman.

So, now for the big question..................if you are going to add bar(s), then what is best? Front only, both, and what size(s). Street use only.

Cheers
Ted K

I've done this and... for street use only I "highly" recommend both stock bars. You'll probably get all sorts of replies but a stock bar on a teener transforms it nicely.

In the 914-6 factory competition parts book dated March 1970, you could order a 11,13,14,15 mm front stabilzer bars for the front and 15,16 mm for the rear. They were the same front bars available for the 911's at that time. You would have to ask Dr914 if his M471 914-6 has bars from the factory. I would think you could order them on the competition cars.

Cool info...I've never seen an 11. That would be weird. I had a 13 on my 66 911 and 15's on everything else. I'm now using (and love) the 18mm 930 bars (1976 only) on both my cars. They are very hard to find these days.

E,

This was in the ad when I bought my car. This stuff was put in around the late 70s. Suspension Adjustable 19mm front sway bar with Teflon bushings Bilstein Carrera RS front struts, adjustable perches. Does that make any sense on the size? Also no rear sway bars.

Bob

I looked into the 18mm bar as Eric said. They are special order from Germany at this time . Cost is around $200 for just the bar.

This thread shows the location very well (Rob's car):
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=76624
It is only a small piece of sheet metal that can be cut by hand from almost anything.

From what I know the sway bar was an intended option from the very beginning. The inner front fenders have the indentation on the earliest cars. Relatively few cars came without the tabs on the A-arms. The GT parts manual lists several bar sizes. However, if the car did not come factory equipped with them, then some sanctioning bodies did not permit holes in the body to be made to install them. Hence some of the Ginther cars had innovative bars that ran below the body rather than through it.

so its shown in the last pictures? just confirming their are a set of strips and they are welded on the top side of the trunk floor? do the measurements or gauges differ?, they look rough cut
Click to view attachment

mike

It can be seen more clearly here:


In your photo he has cut around the reinforcement so as not to disturb the lower mount and the upper reinforcement. The lower mount is more difficult to replace, so he elected to patch around it.

The reinforcement is about 1" wide and about 1.5" tall with the angle cut. It is just flat sheet metal, nothing special, and can be made with tin snips.

Both rear sway bar mount pieces are available from Engman.

It does as anything adjustable would be aftermarket at that time. 19mm was/is a very common aftermarket size.



That's not "too" expensive for a factory bar. It's the arms that will get you. They are specially reinforced. Anyone with a bit of patience and the proper size angle iron could fab up a regular arm though...

Click to view attachment