I have been slowly gathering parts for a suby conversion. I have an EJ20T motor. I have replaced the timing belt and the belt covers on it. I fabricated a custom wire harness for it with the intention of using a megasquirt controller. I have the Kennedy adaptor plate and flywheel. I have also purchased an outback exhaust manifold and braided SS hose kit to relocate the turbo.

The problem is as I get closer to cutting the front for the radiator I can't quite see putting a big hole in the tub. The car is in excellent condition cosmetically.

I also continue to see the power available from the T4 increasing (thanks Jake).

I still need roughly $1000 - $1500 in stuff to complete the suby. I could probably sell the suby stuff for $1000 - $1500.

So $2000-$3000 bucks to play with.

225hp from the Suby

?Hp from the T4 (I do have an Eaton M62 blower laying around????)

So, the question is do I keep the suby or stay T4. Help me decide.

if you are gonna be stuck in lots of traffic or letting the car idle for hours at a time - i say water cooled.

T4 is plug and play - any conversion is lots o work.

that said - i would go for both - one with t4 and one with suby power.

914's are like patato chips - you can't stop at one : ))

i have a t4 and a v8 and would love to have a suby for great gas mileage and high rpms.
see porcharu's thread - he'll be using suby trans.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=40733

How "streetable" of a car do you want? I believe that most of Jake's HP numbers come with running a Tangerine (loud) exhaust system. I believe that the conversion guys are quieter and thus more streetable for a given horse power.
Just my .02 and I'm sure others here will set me straight. (so I can learn more!)
-Rob

I want to preface this with the fact that I have been very impressed with the Subaru transplants I have seen. Tom Trudell has one of the finest I have seen. In fact, add to that his Club Sport 911 and you have the seeds of envy forming for me.

No doubt your question is borne of the fact that 212 reliable HP has been attained recently from a Type IV.

Staying with the Type IV eliminates a lot of fabrication. It also negates the need for water and plumbing.

I would stick with the Type IV. Read the threads about Dave Hunt and my car. Perhaps you already have. The power is everywhere. Very satisfying.

The way I have looked at it is.. how much do you desire to stay all porsche(vw) and what do you think you will be ultimately satisfied with, for performance? 200hp.. 250.. 300...400?
I think the subie (and v8 guys) are thinking more than what a T4 can get to...best case.

having build and drive (daily) an Subaru EG33 powered Vanagon I will say dont ever underestimate the amount of time/$ to do a subie swap. Take your best guess and triple it. Then ask yourself, do i have the patience/motivation?

That said I am helping a non internet friend build his EJ20T 914. Its a fun project but its not sitting in my garage. I expect we will be at it at least a year. After I drive it I will let you know if its worth it.

John Daron

I bought my car with the express purpose of doing a suby swap. Even passed on a number of nicer cars and bought this rusty one in need of work with that in mind(did not want to cut up a nicer car). What is not to like: Porsche designed motor. 165 NA to 227+hp turbo version in stock trim. Same or lighter weight than the 4. Great mileage. Modern reliability. Great aftermarket support. The suby has a lot of plusses.

I still couldn't do it. Not elegant. I just could not bring myself to cut out the front trunk and run water plumbing even though I REALLY wanted to. Decided to explore MassIVe power and spent an evening talking directly to Jake. Was prepared to do a 2316 kit until I found a nice 3.2 six. The 3.2 six will be going into my car. Approximately 250 hp with a Steve Wong chip, headers and a free-flowing exhaust. All aircooled. All Porsche.

The Type IV will be nicely stored. In time, I will be back on the phone with Jake for an engine kit and the 4 will go into a future Spyder project. Hint: those suby parts you have would also work in a Spyder kit.

My vote, keep it aircooled.

At the end of the day it is your car and you need to do what will make you the happiest. For me, I thought it was a suby until I really stopped and thought about it. Turns out it wasn't.

do you really want to live forever?
get a four and flog it.

Something I'm ignorant of here (well, most other places too), but how do you get heat plumbed in?

Dayton isn't exactly the warmest place in the winter.

Curious, and probably more ignorant than many when it comes to getting coolant in a 914.
Pat

for the v8 ( am sure it is the same system for suby ) renegade sell a heater. i am sure on avery short run of hose is needed.

$395 HEATER: Under dash heater core and fan assembly. This compact heater system mounts under the dash and circulates drivers compartment air. Water control valve and fan/temp controls included.

jim

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So if the answer is keep it air-cooled, should it be a T4 or a 6. Can a 6 be done for $3000-$4000? How much T4 can be had for the same $?

The power potential of the suby is appealing but how much power is enough. I have only driven the car with a 1.8L and even with its lowly power the car is a blast.

The car is a nice weather toy, not a daily driver. I plan on some autocross and track days for fun.

It was 12deg today in Dayton but I have never driven the car with the top on. If it’s too cold to take the car out with the top off it stays in the garage. Now I did have the car out on Christmas day with temperature in the 40's so I guess even temperature its relative depending on your perspective.

That's a personal choice.. I think 250-300rwhp is really nice!!

$2-3K could build a nice TIV, but not to 200HP. Case mods, bigger induction and exhaust, oil mods, perfect balancing all add to the big TIV HP #s. $2-3K might get you a 6 with 200HP, but then the other parts add up too. If you had it in your mind to do the Suby, there should still be some of that same drive left. After completed, you would have a car that is super fun, but not easily classed competitively. If that matters, stay Porsche powered. If it's all about fun, the Suby swap is the way to go! Nomex on.....
I also like the fact that Subaru 350+HP engines are not that unusual or expensive. That kind of power from Porsche is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

talk to mcmark - $5k

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...chine%20%20shop

Look into the 2056 "S" motors....try to bum a ride or drive one as they are tons of fun.

Check the presentation. http://www.rdtlabs.com/Presentations/por20...files/frame.htm

Click to view attachment

jake - very cool graphic ?

gotta say - i love my v8 - always wanted a v8 914 since being a teen

but everyone digs what you are doing down south : )

I'm struggling with the same decision. As a fun street car, I think the Subie wins hands down. But if you want to race it, you'll be classed with the trailer riding , fire breathing monsters. From what I've been able to determine, you can't even run NASA. PCA won't let you in. SCCA puts you in E Mod.

There's your choice. To race, or just have fun.

I've decided that the Subie route will be less expensive, but take more time.

Water heat will beat the crap out of factory heat, if that's a consideration.

I'm looking for a deal on an engine, either way. When I find it, I'll know which way I want to go. I don't even have a core, so my decision has to factor that in. If you go aircooled, I might even buy your Subie stuff

For me, if everything was a wash, I'd most prefer a well prepped 2.7S engine.

keep it air cooled. at least go to a six if anything. suby has more power. but more weight as well. u might be able to get a better power to weight if u work over a t4.
maybe. it may take a lot.
steven

Subie engines weight less than T IVs.

Not the last one I moved around!!

Just my opinion of course and considering I'm just an arm chair quarterback, take my words with a grain of salt, and some tequila. Here's what I'm thinking:

Suby:
Suby fits, will need considerable fabrication for water cooling and water heating in the cabin and for wiring. Even more if you use a turbo engine. If you have to buy new or find used components cheap your cost can vary. Also if you have the skills & TIME to do the fabricating the job will go easier. RPM range about in keeping with existing tranny.

V8:
Big available power with same fabrication, skill, & TIME as Suby. Wiring harness seems simpler than Suby. Need to change tranny to suite lower RPM range.

911-6
Ultimate conversion in my mind since this type of engine is what the "real" Porsches used. Cost all over the place depending on where you find the engine and its size and condition. Not as much fab needed as V8/Suby as no water needed but still fab needed with oil tank, motor mounting, and possible oil cooler. In general may be the most expensive depending on where engine is found and its condition, and whether you can work on the engine yourself.

MassIVe-4
Jake's doing amazing things with this engine and this power plant bolts right in and is still a true 914. 914/6 were rare so 914-4 is what a 914 is. Seems the only downside is that the price comes in one bill. All of the above conversions have many bills that could be spread out over a period of time. There again, depending on what you want to do should guide your approach. If you like fabricating, spending lots of time working on and changing the look/feel of the car, do the above. If you want to swap engines and drive like hell, MassIVe-4 seems like the way to go. I would love to have a MassIVe-4 in my car.

THANKS!!!

I have had both aircooled motors in my car. Type IV and a 6. About the only conversion to watercooled that interests me now is the new Subie diesel... not a lot of HP, but talk about miliage. potential of over 60mpg in a heavy car...

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drive...rticleId=124553

suby should be more work than v8 as it will likely be fuel injected - v8 would likely be carbed. jim