So,
I'm running a 1.8L stock Vacuum advance dizzy with single weber (i know...not ideal) and as I've learned the advance curve is wrong for this setup and I have pretty bad lag now before 3000rpm. I swear the engine is running hotter now. Is it because the timing is too retarded in the lower rpm range? does that affect engine temperature?

Anyone running a similiar setup with a suggestion as to where to set my timing to get better performance? I don't rev it up much past 4500

Oh, and I just ordered a a centrifugal advance dizzy, if someone is using one of those with a single carb and is having luck, please tell me your settings.
Thanks.

Timing too HIGH for a given RPM range will definitely make hotter running temps in that range. Timing too retarded? IDK, maybe...

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!
Timing is EVERYTHING to head and oil temps!
TWO degrees can make 50+ degrees of head temp!
Retarded timing = higher exhaust gas temps because the burn is slowed and is still occuring while the exhaust valve is open.. High EGT= higher head temps because the port soaks all that head up and spreads it over the heat...

Better get this squared away or you'll be a statistic!

Thabks for the info. Still confused though. Right now my engine is advanced 27 degrees or to whatever the red hatchmark is on the 1.8 fan. However like I said my teener is running pretty bad. Seems like I should still be safe though I haven't advanced the timing that much.
What does EGT mean? Sorry new to this.
thanks

EGT- Exhaust Gas Temperature.

I am doing an engine rebuild bacause of too much timing.

These engines seem to like a little more advance on the bottom end, it's definitly snappier.

BUT with a mech. dizzy, anything you do on the bottom affects the top. it don't take much on the bottom to go over the top


I can't wait to get my enegine running with the EDIS system to play around with this

Thats why the Mallory Dizzy is my best selling product hands down :-) It allows more timing down low and limited advance up top..
Adding timing down low will TRICK the driver into thinking they are adding power across the board..

My dyno tuning DVD will show just how bad they screw themselves at peak torque and beyond as well as temps.

SLight Highjack , Sorry, Jake, since we are on the subject, is there anywhere I can find timing and advance curves for 1.7 running MS with a 36-1 wheel???
Sorry about the highjack

When I first got my 914 I let a supposedly knowledgeable mechanic work on it. He had the timing set sooooooooooooo advanced the wiring to the starter melted. But it ran well. This masked all the other problems that didn't get fixed. My clue that he didn't know what he was doing was the HEAT coming out of the engine bay.

Jake,

I got one of your Mallory setup dizzys second hand.

What should I set the timing to at idle and what should it be all in (and at what revs). Please let me know.

Thanks,
Joe

As far as timing a mallory is concerned. I have one from Jake as well. my problem is static timing before firing the engine the first time. as in, the engine was apart and now back together and I can't figure out which way the rotor should point for what cylinder. I know both valves closed on #1 means it's getting close to TDC, but my engine was assembled poorly and i think it's 180* off. so i'm actually timing for #3 TDC i wish someone from houston would help me get this thing running again. i'm at my wit's end. it'll stumble a little when starting trying to get going, but then go back to cranking and never catching. please someone help me i'm about to load it onto a trailer and have someone else time it for me. mike callas at rennsport in sealy,tx

I had the same setup on my 1.7 when I purchased it. Worked ok. Then I got a set of used Weber IDF40's and it transformed the engine into something a lot more fun, more HP, and awesome sounding. It's still a turd but runs much much better now. And it looks a lot cooler with the duals.

UPDATE: Wow, got home today and needed to run some errands (I ride my bicycle around town, teener is used for distant errands) and decided to advance the dizzy by ear. Started the car, let it warm up for about 5 minutes. Adjusted the dizzy slightly and the idle smoothed a little. Took it for a test drive and it's pulling in the lower RPM's like it used to now! I'll time it again when I put in the new distributor. Pretty stoked@!
I'm going to try to get dual's next...if anyone has a set, I'm looking. Want to have everything ready to go for the spring (isn't that what everyone says? haha). Very satisfying to start understanding these concepts.
Thanks guys.
ps- Jake, when I get out of dental school, I'm going to be calling you for a rebuild

Ummmm.... Jake is a little leary around dentists.

Make sure you know where that timing really is. It's all good by ear and feel but it needs to be right, or the frying of the motor will begin

Does advancing the timing add HP too?

If you would have followed my rebuild video the dizzy would have been installeed while the casde halves were still apart and you would not be having that issue...

Pop off the valve cover, rotate the engine clockwise till the #1 intake valve open fully and closes fully. The next time the TDC mark comes back up that will be true TDC on cylinder #1.. remember the 4 strokes of the engine and the order they occur and then apply common sense :-)

I will try not to highjack this thread but I think this question is germaine to the point:

As the motors (cars) get older, parts are exchanged or different mechanics perform creative adjustments, worn internals, new internals, etc...

For those of us who have different combinations of cams, or carbs, or FI or distributors, how do you know when the timing is where it needs to be...

By that I mean I have a Web Cam 73 and 1.7 heads but everything else inside has been converted to 2.0...Car runs great, pulls good throughout low and high range, idles very well and makes for a very good daily driver...The timing has been a challenge due to the bastardization of the motor...27 degrees will clatter the nuts loose, but at 9 degrees, she runs as described...

Yes we would all like to have Jake motors, yes we would all like to have unlimited knowledge, but the facts are, we don't, won't, can't...Plus, Jake (and others in his field) live in search of the perfect motor...Great, we need those kinds of folks but there are those among us who cannot play in that arena...

So, is there a sure fire method of determining exactly where the timing should be, so that a level 3 or 5 "do it yourselfer" will know the setting is correct ???

Ok, have your way with me...

2-OH!

And thats the reason for my DVD series
www.rabyproductions.com
LOL

2-OH,
Co-Sign

9 degrees at what RPM? What distributor? What compression ratio?

OK,

Hers my take on this stuff.
I don't play with stock engines very often.

Your engine ain't stock. It has a weber 32/36 DGV or DGAV more than likely.

Since it ain't stock. Forget about stock timing marks. You have no clue to WHAT YOUR ENGINE internals ARE unless YOU rebuilt it or have reciepts from the PO.

So when ya have a non stock unknown engine. I set the timing to where the engine runs right. Period.

I first make sure the dizzy is in tip top condition. New springs on the advance mechanism. Take it apart and clean and lube everything. If the dizzy has a worn bushing. I toss it on the pile or rebuild it if possible.

In a perfect world. You would put this dizzy on a distributor machine and make sure the curve isn't notchy and it starts at the right RPM and finishes (all in) by 3400 RPM or a bit sooner. (3.2K - 3.4K)

Or buy a Mallory and be done with it.

Once I have a known good dizzy. I simply install it like the factory manual says to. Or use Jakes description above.
Either way. Put the sucker in correctly with the little spring under the dizzy shaft. If it's missing. Get one.

New points or pertronix or whatever. I set points with a dwell meter. I don't use feeler gauges on points. Too inaccurate if the points are used at all. I check to see if the plugs, cap, wires etc are in good cosmetic order.
(Use an ohm meter on plug wires. My wires see less than 1K ohms per foot)

Once this is done. I make sure I have fresh gasoline. In fact the same gas I am gunna run in this engine most of the time if possible.
I then start the engine. Get it timed by ear so it idles pretty dam good.
If it ain't fresh gas. Your wasting your time.

I find TDC. I point the rotor to Number 1 on the dizzy.

I keep the dizzy loose enough to turn it by hand. Yet not so loose it will turn by itself. (Stiff turn)

Next: Start engine. Move dizzy a little till it fires up and runs.

I get the car warmed up. I drive around the block a bit to clean up the plugs. Then I purposely try to lightly bog the engine in 2nd and 3rd gear to listen if it pings or not. I get out of the car every 100 yards or so and keep turning the dizzy till there is an audible ping in the engine when it is bogged. Att that point. I KNOW I am too far advanced. Then I simply back off the timing till it stops. Then I back it off a hair more. For the moment. I am done timing my engine.

Now I go higher speeds and see how it's running.
I watch head temps and oil temps. If anything is out of the ordinary. I tweak the timing until I find out it's not a timing issue or little sucker runs just right.
I can tell you that you are now close to what works for your combo. If the ambient air temps get much hotter than your original setting.
(Like summer) You may have to back off the dizzy. (Retard it a bit)
Shit gas will have the same effect.

Once you have ascertained what works. Then break out your timing light and see where you are in comparison to your stock timing mark. If it's a mile off. You have something mechanically screwed up. (wrong fan, wrong mark, bad dizzy install, etc)

The above is all you have to work with unless you have a chassis dyno to play with.

If you find you need to sync your carbs or do some tuning outside of your timing. NOWS THE TIME TO DO IT.

As you will probably need to time your engine AGAIN as other things that effect proper combustion have changed.

Once you have it all dialed in. Set it and forget it. Until you change something else.

NOTE: If you aren't absolutely clear on what pinging sounds like.
(Pebbles in a tin can)

DON'T TRY ANY OF THE ABOVE.
FIND SOMEONE THAT KNOW THAT SOUND VERY WELL.

This is all backyard mechanic stuff. And it works.

Now: Anyone else have any other options for this fella?

Clayton

Good post!

Clayton !!! Damn-it !!!

You da man...Good article...

Thanks...

2-OH!