(Couldn't find this in search...too many returns)...

I'm eventually converting my stock front suspension to 911 front suspension in order to run 5-lug wheels.

Question: Will a 914 front swaybar fit a 911 front suspension? Will a 911 front swaybar fit 914 front suspension? I don't want to purchase a 914 swaybar, only to find out I have to toss it with the old front end.

Yes, it will work. In fact that part looks just the the original part on you 914.

A 914 sway bar will fit a 911 suspension.....when you weld on the tabs or use a sway bar design like Smart racing Products uses. (they mount the spindles to the 45 degree(or so) round stiffening bar on the A arm). A 911 sway bar fits a 911 suspension. I have one of each, they both work great. The smart sway bar is adjustable, I adjust it between track days and autocross days. The 911 sway bar is stock and not adjustable, but you could certainly purchase an after market adjustable bar (Smart products, Coleman, and many others). More important are the front struts you choose. Try to find Bilstein struts if possible. They can have the spindles raised to add suspension travel to a lowered car. They also have an infinite selection of dampers right down to custom. Also, with the 911 suspension, you get larger discs and calipers, no small thing either.

all in all, prolly the best money you can spend on one of these cars. You will love how it drives!

PS: use the elephant polly-bronze bushings and turbo tie rods in the new front end, very tight.

Still a little confused...I'm not going racing (and I'm lazy), so the adjustable swaybar is most likely "overkill" for my street car.

Can I (should I) purchase a 914 swaybar now, or wait and purchase a 911 swaybar when I have the conversion completed?

I would say.....

Pick up a Carrera front end, '86 or so. It will have everything to start with. Then trick it out as you see fit.

What will work? The 914 on the 911 suspension or the 911 on the 911 suspension (assuming both are installed in a 914)? I do not have swaybars now, so not sure what they look like.

The Carrera front end has the swaybar attached?

You want to buy a 914 sway bar. It is about where they go through, and the 914 bar is designed to go through the car in the appropriate place. A 911 bar wouldn't work as far as I know. But then again, I don't know much

After looking at them on paragon I don't really know the difference, but the 914 sway is what you want to order. I like the setup that Tarret has the best if you are going to buy one.

Thank you.

Both work perfectly. The Carrera set up has the sway bar under the car, the 914 set up has it through the car, just under the gas tank. I run the 86 Carrera set up on my orange daily driver, the Smart set up in the "Red Racer" car. I t is fairly easy to aquire the carrera front end. I paid $150 for the parts, ~$600 setting it up properly.

Hey Gary

Do you have any pics of that? I have never heard of anyone using a sway bar that went under the car. Where does it go?

Your right, you don't know much.
From 1969-1989, most if not all front suspensions interchange. Porsche isn't the most profitable car maker in the world by accident.........

Motors too.

I'll send some pictures tomorrow night, it is late and I'm outa here.

Thanks Gary. Have a great night.

A Carrera suspension for $150! You got a great deal. I paid $400 for my tired 1970 911E setup with new Konis, and I found out later that it was missing parts.

The nice thing about the Carrera suspension is that the swaybar is mounted underneath, much like every other car produced since 1970. Thus, not drilling, welding, etc., but you will pay a premium for a Carerra suspension/brakes/etc. However, the earlier 911 uses the same through-the-body sway bar setup as (optional) on the 914. If your car does not currently have swaybars, you will need to remove the gas tank, drill holes , weld in reinforcments , and maybe weld on tabs to the A-arms. Then, you can go with a stock 914 bar, a Weltmeister bar, or any of the custom bars listed above.

It all depends on how handy you are, how much you want to spend, and what you want from the car.

Hope that helps,
Ken

Define easy to acquire, and please draw a map for the topographically impaired.

Here is a pic of a 911 front end I put on my green 914 including underbody swaybar. The 914 through bars are preferred by some, a 911 bar with corresponding a-arms is a bolt-on item. Mounting a 914 bar requires gas tank removal, some cutting and welding although some aftermarket 914 bars allow adjustments that the DE/AX/racers like.

Also got a 911 bar on my red 914 too. Just added 911 a-arms, t-bars, swaybar, and aluminum crossmember while keeping 914 4-lug hubs & struts. Huge improvement in handling for about a 3-4 hour bolt-on job.

Theres two ways to install 911 struts on your 914. Just get the struts and bolt them in with your control arms and crossmember. Or, get the whole 911 front end, w/ crossmember, control arms and sway bar attached. Basically all 911 parts from hub to hub.

This gives you 2 ways to add a sway bar to your 914. If you just bolt the struts in, you will need the thru-body 914 sway bar. So, you could install this sway bar now, add struts later. This sway bar requires some metal work. you have to weld the mounts to the body where the sway bar passes thru under the tank. And, weld the tabs on the control arms where the sway bar links attach.

If you go with the 911 parts hub to hub, you don't have to do the welding work since the sway bar is part of the 911 setup. But, you have to buy the whole enchilada up front. Front suspension, rear hubs, and 5-lug wheels.

TOP pic is a Complete 911 hub to hub setup. You can see the 911 sway bar at the top of the pic. If you just do the struts, you would only need the strut housings, hubs, brake rotors and calipers. LOWER pic. And, you would need to do minor welding work to install a 914 sway bar.

EDIT: Upon further review.... One caveat could be the year of your car. If you have an early car (70,71,possibly 72), I don't think you can just bolt the front struts in. Or, at the very least you need early 911 struts. Because IIRC they were link pin and not ball joint until 72.5.

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Mild hijack . . . . I bought a complete Carrera front end: Bilstein struts, rotors, calipers, aluminum crossmember, steering rack, arms and underbody anti-sway (anti-roll) bar.

I was planning on installing the whole thing including the underbody antisway. But, I've never seen one on a teener, only the through body even on cars with Carrera front ends.

Which is better for our cars, underbody or through body and why?

I have a complete 911 suspension including the underbody swaybar. Rides pretty firm. Steering rack was good, so I left the original in place.

With regard to the under car sway bar; Are different rate bars available, and do they make adjustable one's?
I have a complete '89 Carrera front end on mine.

Thanks,

Andys

i ran the underbody 911 sway bar on my car for a while (came with the '84 carrera frontend) ...

it works just fine for a street car, at least as good as a stock 914 sway bar, if not better ...

it mounts to the a-arms in the same spot as the stock sway bar and runs under the body and is attached to the rear crossmember mounting tabs ...
Andy

No and no. (well, technically you can find an earlier SC bar but the sizes are not that much different)

Have to go though body to get adjustability.

So the 911 bar isn't as good for 914s when setting up for AX and such? I would never go with this as I wouldn't need to, but it is good to know

the underbody bar is not adjustable. just like the stock 914 bar. no difference there. however, the 911 bar is bigger in dia. ...

so like i said, for a street car, i don't see any problem running the 911 underbody bar. i did for quite a while. even did some AX with it.
it works great.


now, if you need a adjustable bar, you'll have to go aftermarket. in which case it will have to be through-body anyways ...
Andy

Cool. That's good to know. Haven't come across anyone wanting to do that, but now if I ever do I know it can be done. Thanks Andy.

Steven,

You mean with all the bazillions of late 911's out there, that you can't get different sizes of undercar sway bars? I would think with lots of AX, track, and HPDE 911's there's sure to be some choices, no?

I intend to track test to develop my suspension, so I'd prefer to have some ability to make changes.

Thanks,

Andys

here is a link showing you how we installed our factory bar in our 73 that never had one, maybe this will help.

http://www.914world.com/specs/swaybar_install.php

mike

Thanks Mike. I am well aware of how those go in. I was curious as to how the 911 bar goes on as I have never seen that.

I think that may be because they also have strut braces for ther 911.

Not quite.
Strut braces will not affect the anti-sway properties. They are designed to reduce flex in the upper strut mount so as to maintain camber, caster and toe settings under loads that will deform the frame to some degree.

Like Andy said, to get an adjustable front sway bar, you need to go through the chassis. The designers then use an adjustable cantelever to the drop links to alter the moment on the sway bar, creating adjustability. The factory Porsche front sway bar is under the car and not adjustable, there is no room for adjustability.

As I said, I'll forward some pics tonight after work. I need to put the car up on the lift and take the picture for you.

I would be interested in seeing the pics as well.

Here are the pics I promised. Drove it home from work, a little wet here in Portland as you can see.

The first ones are of the 911 Carrera front sway bar under the orange car:
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Here is one side of the front sway bar set up on the red car.

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Thanks for doing that Gary. I now get how the 911 bar fits. Must say I do like how the 914 bar goes through the body much better. However, I guess the 911 bar would work inn a pinch.

So in the other post you were saying how the strut brace deosn't really help with sway. So how do the 911 guys adjust everything? Do they just buy a bunch of different bars?

The answer is still no;) All of the serious autox, track, HPDE guys convert over to the early type through-body bars (my 911 included). To my knowledge there isn't a single aftermarket under body front bar avail. W/o droplinks the adjustability part is too difficult. The long drop link of a though-bar doesn't change the angle much when you slide it back and forth.

Thanks all. It looks like swapping in a complete 911 front end is the way to go. I really don't want to get into all that cutting, welding, etc. Car is only for the street.

Still needs review...

1. All years have ball joints. Link-pins?? Like pre '66 Beetles?
2. Early struts have pinch-bolts to hold the ball joint to the struts.
3. Later struts have a special tapered pin to hold the ball joint on.

Anyone have the years when this changed for 911? IIRC, 914 changed in '72?? The front rotor also got the addition of a centering ring, so early wheels no longer fit in some cases like Pedrini's.

Thanks for the clarification. I knew there was a change but, I was confused with early beetles(owned a few of those too). I believe 72.5 was the change for 914.

ALSO, one other thing I don't think was mentioned about using the 911 front end hub to hub, you add the 911 19mm torsion bars.

This thread's all over the place!

Too much has been made about pinch bolt struts. If you can find the later ones go for it. If not, check to make sure the hole is fine on the bottom (it probably is) and enjoy. Is this guy going 5-lug?

There's been a lot said about sway bars here... my personal preference is "through body" The under body bars are 18 (early 74-76) and 20mm (later). While the 18mm bar should be fine for the average street ride, I personally think 20 is pushing it. The stock 914 bar is 15mm and does a world of good if you are used to driving without it.

911 through body bars came in 12-13-15-16 and 18mm sizes. There are some more as well but, these are what you would commonly find on their street driven, through body, varients. 16mm was the most common through body bar.

One thing I didn't see mentioned here is the size variation in the drop links. The 914 drop links are roughly 3/4" longer.

As I see it, and how it pertains to the original poster, there are two options.

What's required:

Through body - A complete bar assembly, including; bar, end caps, arms, drop links and possibly u-tabs (depending upon what is included or not on the current a-arms). You'll need new bushings. You'll need an Engman body support piece. You'll someone to cut and weld on your body and you'll need to yank the tank to do it all. You should prime those areas and possibly re-apply the undercoating.

Under Body - You'll need the entire bar set up. You'll also need the rear brackets and possibly a crossbar from a later 911 (or some modifications to your own that would probably require pulling it). No welding and cutting but a fair amount of front suspension bits and pieces swapping. You'll need the A-Arms or you'll need to modify your by adding the later style mounts. The sway-bar mounts are different on the A-Arms. Personally, for a street car, I think keeping the 17mm t-bars is a good idea... soon you'll have 23mm t-bars and 26mm sway bars and the intent was to simply drive the car on the street.

Also... 914's don't need strut braces (yes, we're watching you Chappy) The factory did a fine job of placing bulkheads in the proper places front and rear.

If'n I was the original poster here (and I ain't) I would do this:

1. Find a stock 914 bar set up (all the bits). Should be around $100-150
2. Call Mark Bland and get the body mounts.
3. Call Pelican and get all new bushings.
4. Call my friend with a welder.
5. Plan a weekend. Buy beer for the welder guy. Saturday AM, yank the tank, cut the holes and prep for welding. Weld. Paint. Undercoat. Install bar. Put the tank back in.
6. Sunday - Go for a drive.

Search is your friend...

Shoot,....I don't think I said a 914 needs a strut brace, 911's have that option. Everybody knows 914's don't need strut braces! Duh!

Not you... the "other" Iamchappy has one on the front.