You guys are pretty tough, especially when I come up with an idea. But I have been pursuing information on a process of rust protection and arrest for inaccessable areas like the rockers, doors, lower rear portions of the front fenders and rear edge of rear deck lid. Things like that. Not to mention the whole 914!

I know there are fleet applications for the military and the likes of UPS. I have found a few candidates for the job. One is sold under the name Carwell Rust Cop.

Another is a cosmoline based product that hardens and seals. Has a fantastic life span as opposed to the Rust Cop which must be renewed periodically. (And that makes marketing sense beacuse Carwell is really in the application business so why would they feature a one time process when they can come back time and again?)

A third is a lanolin base that can be used safely around the interior and taillight housings where it might get on the paint. The cosmoline formula is tough to remove once on.

There is even another 'Vaseline,' or petolatum, based one for a lighter more temporary use in the shop.

Comments? Anyone have any additional info for this type of thing? Seems like with our older cars, we would need as much rust protection as we can get.


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Stopping rust once it's there is dicey w/o total erradication from what I hear here and other places. That's kind of another topic of it's own.

If you're optimistic, you could believe that if you could prevent anymore moisture and any more air to a rust area, that the rust won't progress. It would be my belief that you could retard it significantly, but not arrest it totally. Another way of looking at the situation is are you going to do nothing? Apparently, that's not how the military and UPS approach it.

My own rust erradication procedure is to physically remove all that I can in any way I can and treat what's left several times with phosphoric or tannic acid. At this point, many would use POR-15 or equivalent. But, you can't always get the complete job done or the POR-15 on all surfaces as is the case with the rockers and other concealed areas. At this point, one needs to turn to another product. I'm looking for the best of that product.

When I first started this, I used Carwell and it has been good. I can use it indescriminately and wipe it up. It's as mucn of a lubricant as anything. I leave alot of tools outside like my floor jack and it stays pretty nice. I don't live in the part of the country where that is just not done. The cosmoline product that I will test here soon is a much more serious product and would seem well suited for inside rockers. Nothing is a substitute for not letting the rockers get funky in the first place.

Along these lines, I'm curious about whole car protection. I'm planning on dipping my resto-car in acid and I'd like to take that opportunity to implement whole-car rust protection.

I melt wax in acetone.,then spray it with my hudson sprayer. Steve

zinc?

My buddy was redoing a Panterra. A Whole Panterra body shell went in, Half a body shell came out. Steve

Most of the body shops shoot wax into the frame rails after a repair. I'll try to find out what the name of the product is that they use.


B

Yeah, but who does whole car zinc dipping?

ok, this is too cheap and too easy, but I have had great luck with rustoleum rusty metal primer. it somehow pentrates to gook to bare metal and leaves you with a nice surface. rusty

have used it to paint wrought iron fences, and no problems after 5 years. not as good as zinc coating, but far better that what factory put on these rust buckets to begin with.

When I had to redo all the flooring,inner & outer long,shift tunnel,firewalls,etc.on my 6 some years back.My boss here at work told me to try a product called OSPHO.
It's a green liquid rust converter sold at any commercial paint store.Glidden,Sherwin Williams,etc.
It's about 12.00,and comes in a quart bottle.
If ya spray it lightly on surface rust,let is dry overnight,it turns the surface rust a dark black,cause it becomes iron oxide.
You ever tried welding,and hit a spot w/rust.It pops a hole in the sheetmetal,right.After I used this stuff, I found I could actually weld right over the affected area.No problem.
I sprayed the stuff into all the problem areas,let it do its thing,and then top coated the area w/POR-15.Or in my case I used Eastwood's Corroless.
Yes,once this stuff dries,you can paint right over top of it.
You should try it,you got nothing to lose.

Ron

Iron oxide? IT BECOMES RUST!?



It becomes iron phosphate.


M

Brad, is this it? Waxoyl seems to be popular with the British rustbucket crowd.

actually, iron oxide is a popular corrosion-resistant treatment.

iron is a fascinating element that has a number of more-or-less stable states. normal rust is ferrous oxide. if yoiu work at it, you can surface treat steel to produce ferric oxide. ferric oxide binds iron more tightly than ferrous and will permit no further oxidation.

the "blueing" used on guns is ferric oxide; they're "pre-rusted" on purpose to keep them from rusting :-) ...

back to surface treatments, i spray LPS-3 into open areas of the body shell when there is access. i used to use an aircraft-approved product called "ACF-50" which was like magic, but i haven't been shopping at the aircraft supply store since i moved from SoCal, so i haven't seen any for a long time. it's expensive - but so is rust ...

for small parts (anything that can take the heat and fit into an over) i like to use KGI's 'Gun Kote', a thermosetting polymer resin. obviously i don't know for sure if that's what Otto's is using on that pretty brake caliper, but it wouldn't surprise me. good stuff.

This guy over on the Pelican board sprayed the entire car in Por-15 and some other stuff before painting it. It actually looks awesome and the underside turned out amazing. It looks like if you spray the por-15 on correctly it is smooth enough paint over and still look good.

POR-15 coating before Painting

That's interesting. I went to the Waxoyl home page yesterday and found that they would not sell to individuals. No link to the Proper MG site.

BUT, what I did find was a home brew recipe for Waxoyl: turpentine, beeswax and light machine oil; heated and combined.

COME ON!! I don't know wbout you, but I don't want to heat flammable ingredients just to make some furnature polish. If that is good enough for you, get it. It's not cheap, though at $12 for spray can plus shipping. I would reccommed the Carwell before that.

I'll get some more info as I can on the more serious stuff that comes in an areosol can with no CFC's powering it.

One last thing, if you can paint it with POR-15, that's the hot ticket. Somehow, I had a problem painting the inside of my rear suspension console and inside my rockers. So, to this day, they have been rinsed with phospho, but not sealed. I did squirt some POR-15 in there, but I know I didn't get complete coverage. I need something easy and inexpensive. And not furnature wax.

http://www.eastwoodco.com/RustvsPOR.asp

Carefull testing should be done so the paint sticks the way YOU want it.
Rust Encapsulator (by itself) does not grab the paint as well as a normal primer.

I put some Rust Encapsulator on some ballards next to my house. 4 years and no rust.

-Rich Hilgersom

(Yup, the whole car, this shot is at the paint shop)

Painting the whole car in POR-15 is a great option, but still has the problem of only covering the areas you can see. Those surfaces aren't really a problem, for the most part. If I could dip in POR-15 then we might be on to something.

Um,

Someplace I've got one of those Brit car magazines that had a big article on rust. They took metal plates, coated 1/2 of them with the rust inhibitor/treatment and scraped a scratch across the rust treatment. Then they put them on a carousel outdoors and sprayed them with salty water once a week FOR A YEAR. Then they wrote the article.

The best materials were those cosmoline like honey colored cavity waxes. As I recall, waxoyl didn't come out too bad but the best materials were several Dinotrol formulations. In the UK they sell them in spray bombs or at the rust treatment places.

Did a huge search about 3-4 years ago and could only find the stuff sold in Canada.

Iffin you find some, Kenny want!

Group buy and i'm in!

Maybe our Canadian friends can export it for us?

Ken

Apparently Waxoyl no longer available especially in the post-911 (not the car) era because of flammability issues. Home recipe from a british Mini site:

Here is a recipe for home made "Waxoyl". It's an old fashioned rust treatment / undercoating:

2 1/2 quarts turpentine
12 oz. beeswax / candle wax
1 quart light machine oil

With a cheese shredder, cut the wax into the turpentine, stir until the wax has dissolved, (takes a long time; you can use very low heat (a warm room) to aid but be careful) and thin with the machine oil to a brushable / sprayable consistency. Apply liberally. You can use a hand spray bottle to get into closed-off sections if you have a small access hole.


Please be sensible when you make this stuff; don't go breathing the fumes or applying heat and burning down your house. If you have any doubts about it, err on the side of caution and just buy a commercially available product.

I'm pretty positive John Paterek applied this to my old 76 914 back in the 80's including injecting into the longitudinals and behind the sail vinyl. Those areas have not rusted to this day. When he first applied it, a bit oozed out on hot summer days around the sail vinyl but then stopped.

I'm wondering if there's any role for anti-rust treatment if a car has original finish and is not rusted out? A way to avoid undercoating?

Paul

FePO4 vs FeO or Fe2O3 or...rust
OSPHO or JASCO and POR 15s Metal ready all contain hpospheric acid. teh acid turns teh IRON OXIDE into IRON PHOSPHATE. with 4 oxigens bonded to the iron, it is not looking to bond with any more .
both products are sold at paint stores such as Frazee or Sherwin Williams as a metal prep before paint

I am doing a rustoration on a 74. The longs are solid (for now) but I know there is rust begining inside them. There was a rust thru at the hell hole and I could see some inside. I don't want to cut into the longs just to paint. I am thinking this wax mixture may be the best solution. Maybe drill a 3/8 hole from inside the front wheel well to gain access to the long. Then using a long tube with a spray head at the end, Spray this mixture in the long starting from the rear and pulling the tube out towards the front spraying the inside. I am mostly concerned about the bottom of the long as this will be the first to rust.

This mixture should easily be made using an electric hot plate and a double boiler to aid the melting of the wax (low temperature).

Thanks for answering. I'm getting a 74 1.8 in pristine condition. It's going from CA to 914Ltd; Brad is familiar with the Waxoyl product but he hasn't been able to get any for a few years.

I'm really wondering if a car as rust-free as I think this one is (I haven't seen the car yet) will benefit from a rustproofing treatment 33 years later.

Paul

Used oil works well. Messy and should be redone every so often, but gets into all crevices. Open gear lube comes in spray cans, it gels after being applied.

arizona is a good rust preventative....

I have a newbie question. When useing this home brew Waxoyl concoction or used oil or whatever is there a concern the odor from these items will be smelled in the cabin? Don't the heater tubes run thru the longs? I'm assuming when spraying this stuff I assume your trying to spray more towards the top of the enclosed area so it can run to the bottom, by doing this the heater tube will be covered correct? I am in the process of redoing a 1975 chassis and I want to spray/inject something into hollow cavities to prevent rust. Besides the longs and the rear inner/outer fenders any other areas to spray this stuff?

I think you are correct about the smell. I am in hopes that is is temporary. I have read somewhere that it does go away in time (how much time?). I was planning on spraying only the bottom of the inside of the long because I do not want the "Sound Absorber" to absorb this stuff. Getting the full long would be better but I don't know how I could do it without drilling a lot of holes.

Wurth sells a good body cavity wax, 3m has one also. You can buy a wand gun and the 3m wax from an autobody supply, Wurth has it's own version.
Modern VW's drip the crap out of everywhere when you cut pieces off of them, but it doesn't really catch on fire much, even when you're plasma cutting. Sometimes you have to take a blower and blow it out, but you never need an extinguisher or anything like that. I think the guns are around 30-60 bucks, and the wax is around 15-20 a quart.