A productive weekend!!!

My wife (unbeknown to me) coordinated with a couple of the local 914'ers (thanks Brant, Kevin and Ron!!!) for a work day today, as an early Father's day present. So we started gray and early this morning (overcast and raining), and working all day, we finally managed to coax the car into life!! It runs! It moves!

I didn't venture any further than the driveway in front of the garage today (rain, no tread, and lack of familiarity with the car was a sure mix for an "oops"). But it pulled out of, and back into the garage under it's own power!!

Wow, I had forgotten how low the car is, it's been on jack stands for so freakin' long...

Hopefully the weather this week will cooperate, and I'll drive into work one day...

Still have some stuff to do before it's track worthy (mainly the oil cooler install, air dam, brake ducting, and new pads), but it RUNS!!!!!

I had forgotten how nice it is!!!

Oh joy!!!!!





-Josh2

Kudos to you. Good work man. I'm glad you got it running again

and

Congrats!
Where are the pics?

Great job, man. Great present too. Mine moved for the first time in a long time today too. I'll be breakin' in the rings in a couple weeks. You've got an awesome 'other'. You know that right?
Mark D.

Woo hoo!

And the obligatory...

Sorry I couldn't make it over Josh, but grats! Coincidence that you and DD both required an "intervention" to get your 914's on the road?

Was the wife's "Intervention" an early fathers day present, or did she just want the garage back?

Congratulations on getting her runnin (the car, not the wife)

Congrats, Josh!

--DD

Well, I thought I'd get home yesterday evening and fix the oil leak from the valve cover gasket, adjust the clutch and take it for a drive. And I did!!

However... There's a distressingly loud clunk coming from what I think is the right rear suspension. So... Back on the stands to find the source of the clunk.

But... Not to disappoint all you skeptics out there...

Here are some pics my wife shot from the deck. Not the best pictures, the camera battery was on the verge of dying, so the constant beeping apparently was a distraction.

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Oh, and just so you don't think that I took the trouble of pushing the car up the steep gravel drive, and letting it roll down JUST to give it the impression of motion , here's a short video I managed to get of it actually running!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aK7ltoGAu4

And of course, I managed to set off the smoke detector in the garage with the oil that was dripping onto the headers when I pulled it back to the garage...

A small speed bump in my road of progress, but I'm not deterred.

I suspect it's the lower rear shock bushing, as I had the whole assembly apart to replace the right side drive shaft. I hope it's not the CV or the bearing...(both replaced during the "down").

-Josh2

That is one righteous sounding 1.7 you got there....

Ouch...

-Josh2

So... Took another crack at it this evening...

Fixed the deathly sounding clunk, it was the lower shock mount. Just needed to be tightened is all.

But the leak from the valve cover is getting to be a real pain. Did it right this evening, gaskacinch on all surfaces, still leaks aplenty onto the headers. Did manage to drive about two or three miles though, felt great!

I'm gonna try a different valve cover, hopefully that licks it, I don't think I can take the fumes again...

Any suggestions?

-Josh2

Send an email to the Colorado list and ask for a valve cover. Somebody has to have a spare set laying around.

If I can't find any in my boxes o' parts, I'll send out the word. Pretty sure I have at least one more set of covers. At this point, as long as they're straight, I'll be happy. The leak, while not huge, leaves the car in a cloud of smoke when it comes to a stop.

At least it's fresh, clean oil that's dripping right now...

-Josh2

Good to see that car in daylight

Yeah... I know... but...

Glue the gasket to the cover (at least on the corners), and make sure the cover goes on with the VW logo upside down! As long as the covers and the sealing surfaces on the heads are straight, that should seal nicely.

--DD

Well, I glued all surfaces... Head, Cover, and both sides of the gasket. But I'll check on the logo position...

The covers -look- straight... but I'll double check this weekend...

-Josh2

Okay!!!!!

No more leaks!! Replaced the valve cover, and even replaced the bail. Used a nice generous amount of gaskacich, and viola! No leaks! Not a drop!

Took it for a nice 30 minute drive today. Sunny day! Drivin' the 914!!!

80 degree day... Oil pressure, cyl head temp and oil temp looked GREAT!!

Felt great!!! Ahh... I've missed you old friend....

Until...

Started hearing an ominous rattle from the engine about 5 miles from home. Limped home, listening all the way. It wasn't perfectly periodic, but it did seem load dependent. Seemed to be louder when rpms were changing (up or down), than when they were steady. Limped home. Parked it, got out, rev'd the motor a couple times. It sounded like it was coming from motor itself (maybe near the front? not sure). My fear is it's a bottom end sound. No idea what it is. It's not a simple sound that I'm familiar with, but it sounds B-A-D.

HELP!!!!

I was so close!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is there a crying in your beer smiley face?

-Josh2

Well, I spent some time poking around...

Nothing overtly loose on the outside. I pulled the valve cover gaskets, and checked just to see that none of the lock nuts were absurdly loose. Nope. Will check valve clearances in the next day or so. Geez a wheez...

The more I think about the sound, the more it seems like a bottom end problem. Good gravy, I just can't catch a freakin' break here.

Anyone have suggestions on diagnostics that DON'T require dropping of splitting the motor???



-Josh2

It has been a long time since you've driven around in a 914 Josh. You sure it's not a fantom noise? Can you get a video with a good audio track? Or just a good audio track?

Yeah!
Movie!

Sorry, but it hasn't been THAT long. It's a real sound, and no, it's not just the normal sound an air cooled engine makes... Trust me on that one...

-Josh2

Just askin, no need to get excited. Using capitols and everything...

Where's that sound clip?

Congrats and sorrow over your situation. Been there a few times myself. What teener owner hasn't. Hang in there though. Hopefully - the facts will reveal something much more minor than it sounds.

And cudos to the wife - she obviously knows the way to your heart.

ENjoy!

You actually have a 914? HAHAHA, JK

AS for the noise, do you have a bolt on cam gear? if so you could have the bad noises. Cam gear bolts hitting the oil pump.

Hmmm, plausible, but I doubt it. The engine ran for 10-15 minute intervals three times before this. Although, the temps never got to fully warm either time before. I'd think that if there was interference, I'd hear it right away...

Then, there the more random nature of the sound. It's definitely rpm dependent, but it's not periodic. It will speed up with the engine, but it isn't like it's sounding on every stroke, or cycle.

Seein' as the car is already up on jackstands, chances of getting a sound byte are pretty slim. I guess that if nothing comes from the external investigation, I'll get it back down, fire it up, and see if it occurs when cold. If so, I'll get a sound sample. But don't count on it...

-Josh2

Mine didn't do it until it got warmed up. i actually ran an auto cross right after I bought the car. Then pulled the carbs for a rebuild and put them back on. Started warming the car up and it started this light rhythmic knocking.

It's not light, and it's not rhythmic... Nuts, that would've been a lot easier to fix than a bottom end issue...

I should be able to do some poking around tonight I hope...

-Josh2

Loose impeller fan? Hopefully it's something easy to fix that only sounds scary!

John

John,

I'm thinking along those lines. Hard to check the impeller fan in the car, but I aim to give it a try. Certainly would be a relief if that was all it was.

-Josh2

With it running, making the noise, pull a plug wire. One at a time on each cylinder. See if the noise changes tone.

Reviving this thread...

When I pulled the sump and filter this summer, I found around half a dozen small shards of metal (both Al and Steel). That, coupled with the noises I was hearing told me it was a done deal.

So... Fast forward to November...

Last weekend I pulled the motor and fully dissected it. The description was already in another thread, but I'll copy it here... (with some specific corrections that were pointed out to me by the Cap'n...)

==

Well, we pulled the motor and performed the autopsy this weekend. The conclusion was the #1 main bearing spun and realigned the oiling port onto the dowel pin (based on the marks on the bearing). This was either a condition inherited from the previous builder , or somehow the crank came out of the bearing slightly when the case was split to fish out the steel washer . Either way, it obviously caused bad things to happen. Fortunately, all of the big expensive parts seem to have emerged for the most part unscathed. The crank, pistons, and heads all look great. The bearings all have signs of damage, and if I had run the motor any longer it probably would have scattered.

Looking at it, the #1 cam bearing pretty obviously starved, and eroded (no tin (it -is- tin right?) at all left on the bearing surface). That is the most glaring damage visible. Most of the other bearing surfaces have signs of scoring, some more than others. The cam and lifters are being replaced as a matter of course, and all the bearings too. There appears to be bearing surface material deposited on other bearings in the motor. I think I got off REALLY LUCKY considering what -could- have happened.

==

So, now begins the process of cleaning and measureing EVERYTHING, with a plan to reassemble in late December.

Got a lot to do, and very little time or money to do it with. But I have confidence it'll get done...

-Josh2

I'll try to take some pictures tonight of the bearings to give you the "thousand words" description...

-Josh2

Keep after it Josh, you'll get there! Keep us posted.

John

Bummer! Sorry to hear about the engine failure after waiting so long to drive it.

good luck getting it back together

glad to hear it wasn't a disaster in there. I had a motor run about 5 minutes one time back when I was building engines nearly daily (it was my own rebuild that failed, not a customer engine) and it was mostly bearing damage, so I was able to polish the crank again, replace all the bearings and put a new cam in and distributor gear. It had run the distributor gear metal thru the oiling system.

then it made it seven minutes

turns out the block had worn where the cam gear would ride against it (I had never seen that ever in a small block Ford), talked to a few "old timer" machinists I knew and one of them had actually seen it one time in 20 yrs, on a 1969 block just like mine The second time I had to go another .010" on the crank and rod journals.

Point is to my typical "long-windedness" is make sure you really figure out why the main spun and make sure to check the block bore and verify it is good and won't happen a second time.

Okay, here's the pictures of the aftermath...

The first pic is the culprit, the remainder are the effects...

#1 Main bearing shell...
Click to view attachment


Cam bearings...
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#2 Main bearing surface...
Click to view attachment

The crank looks good though...

#4 and #1 journals and Main #2...
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#1 and #3 journals and Main #3..
Click to view attachment

-Josh2

And now the rods...

#1 Rod bearing
Click to view attachment
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#2 Rod bearing
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

-Josh2

And the obvious ones...

#3 Rod bearing...
Click to view attachment
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#4 Rod bearing...
Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

-Josh2

So for those with lots of experience with bearing diagnosis, how close to scattering do you think this motor really was???

I plan to have the crank journals polished, and will be replacing the rods with reconditioned ones...

As well as a new cam and lifters..

Anything else I should be looking for?

I'll be drilling and taping the galleys, then flushing them. Anything else???

-Josh2

If you had continued to drive it, you would have smeared the bearing into the crank and locked it up. It may have done it at Idle as well and just stopped. BTDT.

Clean out the oil cooler or throw it away and get another one. When you have the rods resized have them done a little on the tight side. Take the machinist your rod bearing with the rods and let him set the crush to take up the slack in your bearings after you have the crank polished. The T4 doesn't have the luxury of proper bearing support from the manufactures.

You have to have this thing ready to hit HPR when it opens.

Thanks for the advice. I already have reconditioned rods lined up. I'll check the dimensions before committing to them, but they're at the right price...



Oh, you are SOOOOO right on that one... We (SCCA) have the first scheduled date. So I'm really hoping to have it running for that first event! Then again, there are some pending "family" matters that might take precedence over that particular date...

I also am going to really have to get cracking on a front oil cooler, as the long straights in the summer at altitude at HPR will be murder on a stock 2.0L with no aux oil cooling...

-Josh2

At least you caught it before it did major damage. Great pics!

And we have revs!!!!

Fired up on the first turn, dialed the fuel pressure in right away (29-30 psi, I'd rather it be slightly rich than lean) and ran the cam in for 20 minutes at TDC. No leaks observed, save for a tiny drip from a loose relief valve bolt (fixed that quick!). Head temps never got above 200 degrees during the cam run in. Oil pressure stayed above 30 psi (45 cold, 30 hot, Brad Penn break-in oil). Temps? Dunno, the oil temp sender must have gotten disconnected, the gauge never moved. That's an easy fix. The ceramic coating on the headers is fantastic!! After the 20 minute run-in, the headers were touchable after only a couple minutes, the case on the other hand was too hot to touch. Good, at least the oil was indeed getting hot. Took it for a brief drive in the fading light and all is good!

Even with the timing set at TDC, the motor runs great. Can't wait to get it dialed in.

Next step, get the timing dialed in, and get the break in time logged so I can wick it up!!!



-Josh2

so,
new motor...what clearance did you use on the rod bearings to crank?

If you dont know, would you ask your machinist please?

Rich

That's great Josh!

Now, about that oil... sent an email a couple of weeks ago.