I know I am going to get beat up hard for this one but here goes. I have been trying to tune my carbs for a while now but have had no luck. I got the car to idle great ( I followed Rich`s advice by taking the linkage off and tuning each side individually. I got all 4 cylinders reading the same with the snail. I reved the engine a little and it started to pop through the cylinder #2. I let it idle for a while and pulled cylinder #2 wire and the engine continued to run the same. I pulled the wire for cylinder #4 and it still ran the same. I than pulled #1 and it almost stalled and the same was true for #3. I was puzzled that it would run so good on 2 cylinders. I turned the engine off and started it with cylinder #2 and # 4 off. It started up and idled fine. I verified the plugs were good by swapping them in the cylinders that were good and I swaped the wires as well. If my timing was way off could this cause this or is more an issue with the cap and rotor? I am so close but this is killing me because I cant tune it if it is not running on all 4 cylinders. Any ideas what is going on?

Swap the carbs from one side to the other.
See if the issue follows the carbs...I bet it does.

If so, take them both off and bring them to me.
I will show you how to get them both running the same.

Also, check your valve adjustments.

Rich

I think you can take your cap off and spin it 180 degrees? Switch the wires of course. Try to start it and if it's your cap cylanders 2 and 4 will work but not cylinders 1 and 3.

When did this start and what happened when it stopped working?

Good suggestion - You can also test this by verifying you have spark on these plugs and if so. Use a medicine dropper and drop some gas in the cylinders that dont work. Put everything back toegther. If the carb is the problem, they will fire a couple of times with gas in there and then stop after it's burned off. This method isn't as reliable troubleshooting as what Rich said but it might be easier than switching two carbs connected to a linkage. I've also sprayed wd-40 in the plug hole when I didn't have a dropper but don't tell anyone becasue I'm sure I'll get yelled at.

How far off would the valves have to be for this to happen? When I pull the wire from the distributor and hold it close I can see a spark but it appears to be weak.I think that I will swap the carbs later tonight and see what happens. It`s just wierd that it is 1 cylinder on each side.

You know what I did not look at is your firing order..
I was talking to much...happy to come by later today on my way to HD if you are around.
I have done it, so dont think you cant do it...

Take a pic of the engine bay from the passenger side and post it.
Let us see the firing order.


Rich

Rich
I wont be home untill about 6:30 but thanks for the offer. I will try to get some pics but I think the firing order is correct. I will post pics later today or in the morning.

Common problem.


You swapped the #2 and #4 plug wires. If you reverse the rotation, it will look right.

It won't backfire, but it won't run on those cylinders either....BTDT.

Check the plug wires... on a type 4 with the distributor installed correctly, the two towers on the RH side of a 914 should go to the same cylinders on that side. The other 2 towers should have the plug wires crossed.


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Excuse the crude drawing.. but I think it gets the point across.

Here is a pic of my setup. Also I just got my H.E that I won on e-bay. Not ss but in decent shape. Last is my other hobby that is running my pockets dry. Dont know what costs more my saltwater tank or my 914lol.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment
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Take off the distributor cap, rotor and dust shield and take another pic please...It looks to be either way out of time or something funky.

#1 should be up where #2 is on the cap...

Rich

here is the pic.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Im not sure which distributor that is, its either an 009 or an 050
If its 009 you have the correct distributor cap.
If its an 050 you have the wrong cap.

I can come over with my test meters to sort this out if you are around later this week. Its something simple but its easier for me to do it in person.

I still suspect the carbs, but we can at least rule out the ignition pretty fast.
If we spend an hour or so I am sure we can get it running right.
I would have last time except the o-rings would have made it a waste of time...

One more test.
Take a flashlight.
With the linkage disconnected on the carbs
When you turn the key on...fuel pump running, car not running.
Press down the carb throttle and look down each venturi to see if the accel pump is actually squirting fuel.
It should do it when you press down the lever just once into each venturi.
Check all four.

Rich

The two front cylinder are dead? That brings to mind a really really bad possibility....

If the other checks don't turn up the problem, pull the lifters from one of those front cylinders. If you find one or both are chewed up, you have a flat cam.

You might be able to tell just by looking at the movement of the rocker arms on one front cylinder compared to those on the rear cylinder. Not sure.

I really really hope I'm wrong.

--DD

Rich,
All 4 cylinders are getting fuel. I did verify this. Damn I hope dave is not correct about 2 dead cylinders. I can tell you that I have new plugs and wires but I did not change the cap or rotor because they were not available at the time. Would I have to do a compression test to verify a dead cylinder?

yes a compression test would be the easiest way to check that. My dizzy is 90 degrees out like that too. Drive gear put in wrong. Looks just like your orientation, and works fine.

I know that I do not have great compression. However the 2 cylinders that are not working are at around 90psi. I have 1 cylinder that is at about 75~ 80 and I believe that is #1. #1 seems to run fine. I think the books say I should be around 120 or so but I cant remember. The other problem is that my valves are not adjusted yet so I am wondering how much of my compression loss could be a result of valve adjsutment? I am no mechanic but it seems that if the valves were not closing corectly than I would have low compression ( just a guess). If I place my hand over each barell I can feel a ton of suction. I am guessing again but if I had too low compression I probably would not be able to feel suction. I have never done a leak down test but I guess I will have to get my compression meter out and re-verify. Hope this does not mean I need some valve work because it looks like a big job.

If you want I can come over and we can test out the entire system.

Poorly adjusted valve are typically loose, not tight.
Loose valve (loose rocker arms) will not open the valve all the way, but they will close them all the way.

Unless you did the compression test with the engine warm, its not a valid set of numbers...everything needs to be hot.

First thing I would do it pull each plug one at a time, ground out each plug while turning over the car and check that you have spark at each plug...this will prove you have a spark.

Next thing I would do is manually set the motor to TDC using not only the fan TDC mark, but the Flywheel TDC mark to verify.
Then I would ensure that the distributor is properly installed to reflect the TDC marks.
I would also remove the rev limiting rotor and get a straight rotor...its just an odd variable I would not trust..

If you have never had the valve covers off, now is the time to get aquainted.

I am still happy to come over and get it going, or if you want, bring it here I will get it going.

Rich

I will try what you suggested. I do not think that my flywheel has a mark for TDC. I will also verify compression with the engine hot and repost. If there is no mark how can I verfiy TDC. I have had the valve covers off because when I got the car cylinder #1 had no compression at all. My brother in law looked at the valves and saw that it was not closing so he set the gap to .006". After that the compression went up but I know we checked it when it was cold not hot. So like I was saying what is the easiest way to verify TDC with no marks. I do remember seeing a thick post on the flywheel. But I also remember that when this post was at TDC the rotor was 180 off of cylinder #1 I think. I will check tonight when I get home.

There is a notch in the flywheel that can be view from underneath the motor. There is a viewing hole/ notch in the tranny bellhousing.

Quite possible that the push rods are not properly seated.

When the distributor drive gear is not put in correctly, I suspect alot more than that.

Rich

UH OH Rich,
What do you suspect is going on here. If you have time I could use some help when you are available. Thanks.

when are you around??
I would need to run through a few subsystems to check.

Need to run through the ignition first. (Find TDC for the crank and make sure TDC for the dizzy is set up right)

Then the carbs
Make sure everything is performing the same way.

Then the valve train.
Pushrods and valve adjustment...its easy enough to see once you see it for the first time...you can see at a glance if the pushrods are correctly seated or not...

Rich

I`m home at 4:00 today and off tomorrow. This weekend is tough because my daughter is going off to college so we have alot going on. But as I said, your helping me so whatever works for you.
Thanks again
Joe

I made a little mistake in my post--it`s the #2 and 3 cylinder not firing. I checked spark and there is spark but IMO it`s not great. I did a compression check on #3 and it is at 80~85. Again not great but it should fire and run. I also know that #1 has the lowest compresssion at about75. I am starting to think it`s more a carb setup issue or electrical issue ( possibly cap and rotor?). I checked the gap on plugs and it was about .028". I think that I should have the carbs rebuilt correctly because I dont have a clue what I am doing. If I keep touching it I am going to have a lawn orniment. I hate lawn orniments---. With that said I guess I should start from the beginning and check my valves clearance, than have the carbs rebuilt and go from there. This is so frustrating ( it seems like a no brainer).

Whew! Then it's not both front cylinders or both rear cylinders--so it's not a flat cam!

It could be pushrods not fully seated, but that's a much easier fix than a cam swap.

--DD

How do I determine if the pushrods are seated or not. Do I just take the valve covers off and watch when the cyclinders are at TDC. Like I said I have never really done anything at this level before.
Thanks
Joe

You can look at the rocker arms to see if some of them don't close. If not, it could be the pushrod thing, it could be a dropped valve seat (I hope not!), and I can't think of anything else off the top of my head.

--DD

I need to be in and out tommorow.
Do you have a specific time you might be home??
Oh, so its one side of the motor not working, right.
Swap the carbs...its the carbs. Stop thinking its anything else.
Rich

If it is cyl 2 & 3, then there is no way it is one side of the engine.

2 is on one bank, 3 is on the other - and they are diagnal from each other.

I'm not saying its not a plugged carb. But I'm saying it may not be that simple.

Zach

While I have never heard it run due to the missing Idle Jet o-rings, I still suspect the carbs are the culprit.

Joe was handed these carbs with the air mixture screws in a bag...
This means the carbs have never been setup back to matching specs.

I feel that considering he has compression and spark, we are back to a fuel delivery issue.
I will drop by today to see if he is around. He may be off at College today dropping his daughter off, but its close enough to drop in.

If I can convince him, I will take the carbs with me and set them up properly so I know the carbs are right.
From there, I will put the carbs on and get it running right.

for me, with known carbs, its probably a few hours to get it running perfectly...just cause I have done so many...
Valves, points, wires, timing, carbs, sync, etc...
I think this may be Joe's first aircooled car...so the amount of variables may be to many at this point.

Rich