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messix
QUOTE(orange914 @ Sep 26 2008, 04:18 PM) *

QUOTE(Root_Werks @ Sep 26 2008, 03:39 PM) *

I haven't seen anyone mention scrub radious yet? That really changes the way a car can change dirrections.

is "scrub radious" the same or simular to "akerman angle?"

now that that is mentioned, the akerman angle would be affected with wider/more positive offset.

no. ackerman angle is the different turning angles of the left and right baised on the direction the the car is steered. the inside wheel will turn sharper than the outside wheel. this is because the radius of the track the inside whhel will take is not as wide as the outside wheel.
ackerman is affected by the scrub radius but is not set by it. it is set by the geometry of the steering arm on the strut or knuckle, the length of the tierod, and the position of the rack or steering box, and the track width to the hub of the car.
orange914
QUOTE(messix @ Sep 26 2008, 06:02 PM) *

QUOTE(orange914 @ Sep 26 2008, 04:18 PM) *

QUOTE(Root_Werks @ Sep 26 2008, 03:39 PM) *

I haven't seen anyone mention scrub radious yet? That really changes the way a car can change dirrections.

is "scrub radious" the same or simular to "akerman angle?"

now that that is mentioned, the akerman angle would be affected with wider/more positive offset.

no. ackerman angle is the different turning angles of the left and right baised on the direction the the car is steered. the inside wheel will turn sharper than the outside wheel. this is because the radius of the track the inside whhel will take is not as wide as the outside wheel.
ackerman is affected by the scrub radius but is not set by it. it is set by the geometry of the steering arm on the strut or knuckle, the length of the tierod, and the position of the rack or steering box, and the track width to the hub of the car.


maybe you answered it but i fully get akermann angle but will have to digest the scrub thing...
could you explain scrub to a denser level blink.gif biggrin.gif
marks914
As to the scrub radius question, yes it would be affected if the centerline of the tire is changed from stock. No big deal unless you have a diagonal split braking system and have a brake failure. More track= harder to control during a brake failure.

Mark
orange914
QUOTE(marks914 @ Sep 27 2008, 06:42 AM) *

As to the scrub radius question, yes it would be affected if the centerline of the tire is changed from stock. No big deal unless you have a diagonal split braking system and have a brake failure. More track= harder to control during a brake failure.

Mark

so 0 offset would be premium for split brake (failure). is that all scrub is about
dlestep
...scrub angle = king pin inclination....the wider the track the harder it gets to turn
J P Stein
Well, yes ....sometimes but not always. Click to view attachment
messix
QUOTE(dlestep @ Sep 27 2008, 08:46 PM) *

...scrub angle = king pin inclination....the wider the track the harder it gets to turn

wider track does always mean harder to steer, kingpin inclination is more like camber and caster for a straight axle.

going to a different offset wheel [wider wheel with same backspacing], or spacing out the wheels with spacers to increase track width will change the scrub radius, this changes the point that the wheel will pivot around on the ground. a 0 scrub will pivot around the center of the contact patch, if you push the scrub out then the pivots towards the inside of the tire patch. this also makes the steering "feel" more sensitive or more feed back/road feel. bump steer would also be exaggerated. steering effort also increases and toe settings can be tricky from the increased leverage effect from the distance of the wheel center to the actual steering pivot point.

so its all magic...... of geometry [ i never took that in school].
marks914
QUOTE(orange914 @ Sep 27 2008, 05:56 PM) *

QUOTE(marks914 @ Sep 27 2008, 06:42 AM) *

As to the scrub radius question, yes it would be affected if the centerline of the tire is changed from stock. No big deal unless you have a diagonal split braking system and have a brake failure. More track= harder to control during a brake failure.

Mark

so 0 offset would be premium for split brake (failure). is that all scrub is about



No,
Its more about track, more track=more leverage on the vehicle.

Mark
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