I know its possible to swap an NA EJ25 SOHC using the factory ECU. Renegade sells a "Speed Sensor" kit. I think it bolts to the output of the transaxle. Is this required or optional?

I'm trying to understand the ins and outs of these swaps because I think they are interesting. I know a swapper could go aftermarket, Link or Stinger or whatever. I'm curious how much work it is to go with the factory ECU.

BTW, I've looked at most of the threads that are relevant. None of them really give a play by play on using the factory ECU. Just intimidating pictures with lots of wires.

You will need a speed sensor of some sort, the ECU likes to know how fast the car is going. Check out Small car performance, they helped me out a lot when I was modifying my stock harness.

Is it safe for me to assume, you used/invented the Renegade speed sensor ring? If I had to buy that and another $200+ of from small car, + all the wiring work (which I don't mind doing), I am getting closer to the price of a Link or a stinger from Outland.

I just thought this motor looked like a fair deal since it was 100% complete with all harness and ECU. But if I could get the same motor less ECU for <$1500? Again the math starts to point to Link or Stinger from Outland.

Ebay Suby

I'm just curious is the leg work for the factory ECU worth it?

Since my car was the demo car for the renegade subie kit keeping as many stock components as possible was important. I am very happy with my tuned stock ECU but BJ (crazyhippy) is also having good success with with an aftermarket computer. Honestly if the two options are close in price and you can just plug and play an aftermarket computer than I would go that route.
The Renegade speed sensor is a nice kit but if money is an issue a magnet on the axle flange and a magnetic door sensor (think home security system) mounted to the tranny will work just fine.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around the ins and outs. I'm really just curious what it takes to pull it off. Its not so much a matter of money, as spending money wisely. I think the aftermarket ECU with harness would cost more in the end, but might give simplicity and more tuning. Though, I think the Link and the Stinger are a little limited.

I'm not in the market, just in the library right now.

$1750 for that e-bay motor is way too much, you should be able to get a complete non-turbo 2.5, 2000 or newer, complete with harness and all, for $1000. That one's being sold with the column as well, which may mean it has the immobilizer. No problem if you're using an aftermarket ECU, but something to avoid if you want to use the stock ECU.

Do a search for threads with '"speed sensor" subaru vw conversion' or somehting similar, because I think there's a way to fool the stock Subaru sensor with magnets glued to the transmission output flange. I don't remember where I saw it, but it was a cleverly simple idea. The stock ECU is free, so if you can spend time stripping out wires it's a great deal. If you can't or don't want to do that then you can pay Smallcar $300 dollars or something to do it for you. There are a couple of other companies who do it as well, so do a search. Still cheap, so that shouldn't be what holds you back.

Not that I've seen, at least shopping through front door sources like ebay, car-part.com, etc. I don't want to argue with you, I do want you to be right. But, what I see for $1k are usually DOHC motors. I'll keep my eye on CL or upullit type yards.

The few I've found locally through car-part.com were around $1600 w/ 28k miles, no ECU, no AC, No Alt. Thats why that ebay one looked attractive. If I were to put a radiator in a 914, I want to put a condensor in too. I would like to be able to daily drive the car, and in AZ its just not possible without AC



Good point, and I wonder if that motor has the throttle by wire?



Yeah Dana kind of described the same thing above. I just wouldn't want it to be a hack job.



Actually I think I just saw smallcar charges $650 for that service. I would do it myself. That kind of stuff doesn't scare me, actually I enjoy it, if I have the right information.

Yeah Car-Part is always more expensive, but their advantage is that they're usually local and you can negotiate those prices when you're face-to-face. Or even on the phone, just tell them you're interested but don't want to make the drive all the way over unless they can give you a complete engine and be a little flexible on their asking price.

I just went through the current e-bay listings and you're right, no other SOHC 2.5 there right now, but keep looking. They've been there in the past and I'm sure will be in the future. Two other places to try, first craigslist (use www.crazedlist.org to search cities around where you live, too). And do a google search for "jdm subaru engine" or something like that and go through the advertising companies that are listed on the right of the page. Some have prices on their web pages, others don't, and some of those engines come with ECU's and the harness, others don't, so be sure to ask.

Lastly try Outfront and Gruppe-S (http://www.gruppe-s.com). They might have engines in stock (Gruppe-S anyway, you need to call), but if they don't they can probably steer you to someone else who does. There are a bunch of JDM importers in the LA area.

Just from curiosity, why do you want only the SOHC? I know the head gasket problems with the 2.5 DOHC, but that's pretty easy to fix and those DOHC engines are all over and really cheap. Worst case, if it needs a new head gasket every 75-80K miles how long will that be with the miles you drive every year? By then you'll be wanting to put batteries in the car for an EV conversion anyway, that or at least there'll be SOHC motors all over the place and cheap as chips.

I'm also PM'ing you a list of other links to try. They aren't all sorted out, but there is wiring harness and lots of other info there that will come in handy.

SOHC because most are newer. The headgasket issue. Finally, I can throw a pair of Delta cams in there pretty cheap. The alternative is to get a decent DOHC and just get the swap done. Do it with the Stinger, then I could always go to a 2.0 WRX or 2.5 WRX hybrid down the road as budget allows.

I'm not ready to pull the trigger on anything yet. And, I won't be for a while. The target car is in need of resto, so right now I'm just kicking motors. In fact I have half the parts for a 2270 in my garage. I'm just intrigued by the suby possibilities.

Time is money. You can buy a already enginered engine management unit and spend your time at your job making money to pay for it. Most people are better at their job than hotrodding. The speed sensor seems to be a failsafe part of the suby ecu. Most subys will run awhile after resetting the ecu then set a code and go into limp home mode or stop completely. It doesn't seem to need exact speed, just a feedback to say the car is moving.

You can use the suby ecu if you do a lot of learning yourself. The suby ecu, at least the 02 up ones are very smart, they learn. That also makes them a little tricky to reprogram. If there is a open ecu program for the na cars that is the way to go.

Probably this is not the highest tech site to learn about suby ecu's and reprogramming. The nasioc site is a good place to learn as many people have swapped motors and drivelines from one style suby to the other. There are also other swaps on their forums.

Also Subbug's I think ad., Paul Moran has a na suby that he is running megasquirt on and I'm pretty sure that is the most cost effictive standalone ecu available.

Again the already engineered ecu's are by far the quickest and simplest way to go. If you later go turbo I don't know if the ecu connectors are the same on na and turbo ecu's on the subys.

A jdm motor will be the cheapest but the hardest to get replacement parts for. Also the jdm runs a higher compression and more stock timing for higher octane fuel in japan. The jdm ecu will probably see a detonation event and shut the timing back to stop it, it may still run fine with retarded timing, I don't know. I bought a jdm tt 96 motor and tranny with low mileage with everything even the fuel pump from jhot. Because most of the hop up info is on the 02 up wrx/04sti I am going to use it with a 02 wrx ecu and sensors but it is still tricky as the sensor feedback is different so none of it is simple. The higher compression means I will just be able to run less boost. It does have hyd. lifters which if their not sticking will be kinda neat. It will still rev to 7k. Stock in japan it's 260 hp. Keep in mind that time ages connectors and they get brittle. A jdm connector that breaks might be a real pain to replace easily.

I think without a experienced person at yourside you will spend more time on the wiring and ecu than all the other conversion stuff on the 914.

There is already a conversion going nearly complete with a drive by wire immobilizer sti motor. He totaled his sti and kept the parts.

The JDM stuff is enticing because its cheap. But, I don't like the unknowns.

I've spent some time at NASIOC. Its a great site, almost too much info.

I've seen the thread PORSti I think? With the throttle and steering column. Impressive work, but more fab than I'm interested in.

I really think I would go full RH kit with Outland Stinger or Link. It may cost a little more, but I don't want to out think myself either.