Been a lot of phone calls, etc and in fact I UPS'd my starter to them to verify fitment. My big issue was how in the hell I am going to mount a starter on the transaxle that doesn't hang way below the car (an inverted VW/Porsche bellhousing puts the starter at 6 o'clock on my car and means I would be dragging the solenoid on the ground).

Then they had this puppy left in stock - apparently they only made a couple of them just moves the starter to the other side of what I have.

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sssooooo, the sequential dog geared monster transaxle just might be a go for me!! Laid under the car last night to make sure it looks like it will work, and this thing might be "money"! He is going to take some pix with my starter installed today as a final verification - if it all looks good then "it's on".

My current setup... notice starter should just move to the drivers side but remain parallel to ground

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I'm sorta gloating I know... but I have literally talked to them for 4 yrs now on and off waiting for them to get an LSD setup that I liked, etc etc and this trans apparently is using the same LSD style as the Vipers and so forth.

Don't even ask price... OMFG am I gonna pay for this one for awhile but will look like this smiley the whole time I am driving it (notice only pulls shifter in one direction, no mo' H crap)

And got my new Excellence last night - the same day I got the pic above - and page 161 = Going Sequential It's a sign from God hhahaha

Wow, I want one....
B

Ya-es...

ZOOWZER!!

I know I'm not supposed to ask about cost...but I'm going to anyways. How much is it? My guess...$16,500 (And yes, OMFG) I need one on my car. The 930 can handle some TQ & HP...but it won't shift fast like that bad boy!

Thanks for all the kind words and smileys! I too have been drooling over this puppy for quite awhile now so the fact it looks to be a reality I am feeling like partying

It's all good... as it stands $14.1K with the special bellhousing. There is a shim that needs to go in there (it's an LSx bell hint hint nudge nudge) and the tech thought he didn't quote me with it but I am sure it was $500 for the bell and $200 for the shim.

Cost break-down (it's basically on their website so no secret) = 12.4K for the 4spd, 1K for the LSD upgrade, $500 bell and $200 shim. Today he told me the $14.1K didn't include the shim but I checked my notes. The clutch setup will be a dual disk 8" package (none of my 930 stuff will work unfortunately) is $750 with flywheel. So figure all in with shipping $15K.

To do what I wanted to do to my 930 was going to put me back around $10K total including what I have in it so for so I figure I can sell it to get some back and be out a few grand to upgrade to a sequential setup.

You and I both know/experienced the 930 is a perfect trans for a healthy V8 street car with some track use, but since i really just race this thing now it is better for me to go full dog gear, low gear ratio'd setup as I don't care about low rpm highway driving (and gear sets are only $200 for the Mendy). In fact, I am staying 4spd and not wasting time with the 5spd - we both make so much torque across a broad rpm band there is no reason to waste time shifting extra gears

You need a back up clutch assy? I know of one essentially new that will be available soon with only 10-12 track days on it

What exactly is it. I'm seriously considering (about 98% sure) hooking up a 100-150 shot of nitrous on my LS6. I'd like to see what it feels like to have 650-700+ HP. That said, I will need something a bit beefier than my current Kennedy Stage 1 PP. Is your's a stage 2 Kennedy? How much might you want? What type of disc are you running?

I understand the need to go sequential with full dog gears. I wouldn't even mind that in my street car...despite the high gear noise eminating everywhere.

Thanks,

Bill

AJRS is building race 915's with a removeable 1st gear and handling up to 650HP on the race track......

Bill - I'll PM you with specifics.

Brant - any 915 that will withstand high V8 torque is going to have serious coin in it... because I don't have the space limitations a 911 would or a 914 (tho' this Mendy is only 1/2" longer than my 930 with second gear engaged so I think it'll fit in a 914) I would run the Mendy or the 930 before I would run a 915. It would be okay here at altitude cuz I am way down on power, but at sea level the car was fricken apeshit to drive and I can't imagine a 915 holding up to it.

A guy on the bird board with a hot -6 just broke his 915 again a month or so ago and he has pretty much every hot rod part in it he could get and apparently just dumped a chunk in the end all be all upgrades and is hoping it holds together. I bet he has more in that 915 than I would in a full race 930 box and possibly in the neighborhood of the Mendy.

Hopefully I make it down to see the race this weekend - you still going to Pueblo??

I blew one up quite easily w/ 420 HP & 390 LBS TQ on my old set up.

Well that Mendy should be the unbreakable link people are looking for.

After riding in a twin turbo V8 sand rail with 15 inch wide paddles, I am not sure what it would take to break it, but I know the sand drags, jumping, and wheelies didn't do it. That was in a big four seat rail too.

I guess the only suggestion I could make would be to make sure you lift off the throttle when jumping your 914

your right
the full race modified/cooled/everything
with diff and active first gear
is running big bucks... 15K
but the fact is they truly are able to hold up to 650hp


I'll be racing in pueblo
greg is likely going
and if you want to see old technology running good lap times with narrow street tires (no slicks)
come on down

I think the 3.0 911's with old technology, unit bodies, and narrow wheels will be in the low 1:40's... probably 250hp

brant

Tim,

Who makes the 8" dual disc clutch you plan on using? KEP?

Andys

monkeyboy - I did have The Baja Shop build my car and he assured me I was so overkill on the tubing I could jump it ....... They are brick shithouse trannies - AJ installs 15-20 per year in various sand cars and says they are very reliable. Easy to rebuild too should that be necessary.


Brant - I figured $15K if it holds 650HP as I think that is what the guy on the bird board had in his. So that is just over the 4spd LSD Mendy at this point. Break-even money if you went with a 5spd Mendy to match gear for gear.

The two fastest "big bore" cars are tail draggers that run 1:41s and 1:43s so yeah, those guys are fast! Not that skinny of tires on them tho' but they do haul.

Andys - right on, Kennedy makes the clutches for just about anything off-road in SoCal. I think Tilton has a clutch option also, but the flywheel is certainly a Kennedy deal. Already talked to them and will go either stg 2 or 3 (will have less pedal pressure with two disks than the single disk stg 1 in the 930 box).

ok
not skinny
but relatively skinny
probably 295's or so
they are limited in rim width to something pretty manageable
I'd have to look but I'm guessing 9's maybe 10's
and they run D.O.T. hoosiers

but the PCA cars are even faster
PCA allows their cars to tie the roll cage into the suspension points
(vintage has a lot of restrictive rules, no slicks, no fuel injection, no suspension bracing)

the PCA 914's with fiberglass and slicks run all of that and more
I know the 2.2/6 teeners in PCA that were AJRS built were also running in the 1:41 range but with only 220-ish hp.

brant

Ooooooo, thats dirty

I hear you Brant... Dave Harris told me the other day he ran a 1:38 down there so I need to get my shit together apparently. It doesn't surprise me at all a well setup car with less HP can run 1:41s after running that 1:43.8.

Making assumptions about HP/wt ratios of the 914s you are talking about I am probably good for 20 mph more at the end of the stretch than they are... that should be worth about 1 easy if not 2 seconds averaging over the 2.2 miles.

And I think that narrower tires may be better - I have a hard time getting heat in the 10s and 11s I have on mine even with the extra weight v. a typical stripped down -6 teener. If those 911 guys have 295s on the rear, that is probably just about right actually. I like the Ho DOT-Rs, they just don't make the size I run now (too big in diameter) but I felt they stuck like glue when I ran 15x8s and 15x10s before and didn't really long for slicks by any means. I got really good heat in the 275 rears I had before but didn't like the large overall diameter.

I need to find about 5 seconds in my car. I figure a couple seconds is still setup - I was plowing pretty bad in the turns when I ran the 1:43.8. If I can just pick up one mph in every turn that should get me a second right there. I take T10, even after the repaving, way off throttle. I just don't trust that section and don't want to wall the car, but I can guarantee if I went for it I could pick up at least 10mph there - that would average out to a second on the track. So that is three seconds. I ran out of gear before I even got to the esses out of T8, but the 930 is such a bastard to shift from 2nd to 3rd and back to 2nd I just held speed and drove through the esses. That is definitely adding time... maybe a second but not quite.

I can run just under 100 mph in 2nd and was redlined before entering the esses, with the 25.3" diam tires I would redline at 105mph entering the esses, so I bet I could run up to 110 before T9 with a better trans.

And then I just have to get comfortable with the car which requires getting a setup somewhat nailed down. I haven't gone to that track with the same setup twice in a row, let alone a few times to get consistency and confidence. The track is just so crappy I have been backing down my setup in increments, and getting a little better each time. I just changed the front springs yet again down 100 lbs/in this time since I was plowing so bad with minimum front bar last time after softening the rear up trying to get over the whoopty doos that track is littered with.

When I find the neutral with slight throttle oversteer setup, I should certainly pick up time. I was certainly not driving the car on the ragged edge with the understeer as stated before.

'Course, finding 5 seconds on a 2.2-mile road course isn't exactly easy! If I ran 1:40 comfortably I would be stoked to be honest. If I am on the ragged edge to do that, no so stoked. I really think this trans thing is going to make a big difference in just having something geared for the track v. the hwy, easier to shift with the dogs v. synchros, etc. If I found 2 seconds in a trans swap and 2 seconds in setup and driving comfort to run in the 39s I would be

Good freekenness! This thing sounds like a monster. Got another picture of the car as a whole?

yeah Brant you rat bastard! I can't help it I am not the driver I dream I am! hahahahaha.

It's cool evil one! Brant is just being honest with me as I have asked him about that track and his experiences there.

That said, I have yet to actually see any "fendered" car in person or online race results run faster than 1:41 and only at the last RMVR event after the repaving of T10. Even recent SCCA times (July 08) are slower than I am so I am somewhat skeptical about anyone running a fendered anything sub 1:40 on the current track. I honestly had a guy that has ran his 911 car there for years claim the track lost a second per year over a couple of years due to surface changes.

The repave probably fixed a second, maybe two, but I can assure many of you that T1 is a mother if you aren't perfectly in the groove (kicked my whole rear up in the air on my first track day with the WSIR stiff setup! at 90mph that is a bit of a "rush"), the whoopty doo out of T8 into the esses is a treat, the crappy repair patch in T7 is pretty slippery and I always slide through that turn a bit even with plow, etc.

Only cars I have seen and found online sub 1:41 are Radicals and other open wheelers. A year or so ago there was a Vette that ran 1:39 and never matched it again, but damn that is fast. Clearly a good car and driver. Last RMR PCA event (and only results I could find for this year with the repave at Pueblo) fastest car was a C4S running 1:48s.

I watch the race results from various clubs rather often just as a benchmark of where I am. I consider the tail-dragger running 1:41s to be the car to beat and I should be able to do that with my car so I am missing the boat and whether it is setup or driver or whatever that finger points directly at me in any of those cases........

As for picks Root, 914Magazine should have a full spread on my car this coming month so lots of picks and info will be there in a week and why I haven't been posting picks of the car since the repaint, but here is a side one
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It should fit in as an easy ear-mark within the 700 billion Wall Street bail-out.

Wes

It's a go! I am mailing the deposit check tomorrow...

Now I need to start convincing myself it was "totally worth it"


Wes - way I figure is the working folks like us will have to back that $700B so I might as well buy myself something nice while I'm at it. My dollar will be worth much less in a couple months anyway

Oh it was worth it! Congrats on the new purchase!
Let me know when you want to weld that sucker in.

will do! thanks man....

Tim,

Love your detailed descriptions, speculations, and thought process! It's always a fun read!

I'm itching to ask about some driver feedback stuff since I've never seen Pueblo. You've run that track some number of times; Do you feel like your still chasing the track, or are you ahead of it? Do you feel like the car is under you, or are you chasing the car? Is the car predictable, or is it difficult to control (yeah, I know it's a brute!)? I know, everyone has their own description but it's fairly universal speak; plug in you own interpretations.

One final comment. If the track is as bumpy as I think (by your description), you might consider slowing the chassis down a bit but that's just speculation on my part. Don't sell short potential gains from yet further suspension adjustments. I suspect there's potential to lower your lap times on that bumpy track if you're serious about it. Perhaps you may find a corner or two that you have to roll through because of the 930 gearing, but that might be ok.

Andys

Tim,

your a fine driver
I just think that someone who has built 20-40 race cars has things (hardware, software, and setup) figured out pretty well!

When AJ tells me about how something works... he is always right

these are definitely not the new track
but I went to the PCA results page for club racing

these guys are allowed more tire than vintage is allowed (it always shows up in tire size)

ta-da:

1:35.542 Thomas Van Overbeek 2001 GT3 CUP Race 9/18/2005
1:36.334 Paul Fairchild 1996 993 TT Qualifying 9/14/2003
1:36.517 Skip Sauls 2001 996 GT3 CUP Practice/Warmup 9/18/2005
1:36.572 Paul Gutowski 1975 911 Qualifying 9/18/2005
1:37.148 David Banazek 1973 RSR Qualifying 9/17/2006
1:38.185 Greg Curtiss 914 (2.8/6) Qualifying 9/18/2005
1:38.490 Richard Winnick 1987 944 TURBO Practice/Warmup 9/13/2003
1:39.540 Kim Gutowski 1995 993 Practice/Warmup 9/11/2004
1:40.032 Allen Johnsen 73 914-4 (2.2/4) Practice/Warmup 9/13/2003
1:40.882 Tony Clinton 71 914-6 (2.2/6) Qualifying 9/12/2004

I would agree that the track is getting rougher and slower
There were no records set in 2007, although attendance was way down and nobody showed up... There was no race there this year (2008)

only the last 2 cars are AJRS, but a 914-4 (2.2) versus a 911 GT3 (3.8?) cup race car and only 4.5 seconds difference?

plus you need to know that this particular 2.2/4 now has 4-6 race years on it and only 205hp at the flywheel (with a 901 active 2nd tranny and quaiffe)

I tell you there is something to the Torque biasing diff on little motors
I'm convinced that the locker is better above 300hp, but people have it all wrong about the quaiffe on 914's being an autox only diff.

you've got to respect allen johnson's time in a measly 4 cylinder

this was around the same year that he took that car to laguna seca and beat
Rich Bonetempi by 10 seconds a lap!

all the CA guys called foul and thought he was cheating... he wasn't

Andys - I am still chasing both the track and the car. I am chasing the car a lot - I have been making changes in small increments trying to match the track and I am getting there but I have yet to feel comfortable in the car on the track frankly. I had a few spins last year (and this is the only car I have ever spun BTW) and it is just the old setup and new track. I am also chasing the track but I really feel it is due to my discomfort with the car setup - hard to get the track without having a stable car for me.

I am getting to the point the car is soft enough I need to consider fixes to the suspension for more travel. That is in the works this winter as well - I will be relocating the rear shock mounts for sure and getting the longest springs available in 2.25"diam (9") and am looking into making new front susp upper mount plates to gain another 1/2" tho' I may need to drill a couple holes in the hood to let the strut nut protrude through. I have quite a bit of front travel now but I raised the car to do that and really want to lower it down 1" in the front and 3/4" in the rear.

This new trans will be geared much lower than the 930 - I haven't used fourth gear in the car since Willow Springs and even then at only speeds above 140mph so I am gearing down. I topped out around 155-160 at WSIR and maybe 130mph at Pueblo, so I am gearing the trans for 155mph at redline 4th for the small diam rears, and should I travel to a track with a long stretch in it I can go up to the 25.3" diam rears and hit 170mph. The new track they are building much closer to Brant and I has a stretch that is only 200ft longer than Pueblo according to the guy I spoke to there, so I am not expecting much above 135mph there either.

Brant - werd. That -4 is hauling, and that -6, holy crap. I would be really interested in just knowing how soft (or conversely, maybe stiff) the suspension setup is on those car. Also I am hearing guys are running lower tire pressures than I am so I might have some time there and arguably a softer overall spring rate in the sidewalls.

I have been dicking with springs and sway bar settings so much the fine tuning of tire pressures hasn't been much on my radar. I have been going down a psi here and there and getting better tho'. I am down 4psi from Ho's recommendation in 3 track days for instance. I was going to soften the front tires last time to get more grip and then broke the shifter so that is yet to come.

All that little stuff that I am sure a guy that has built cars to run that track has learned a long time ago. Spinning a couple times has sorta rattled my confidence so once I get the car stable and get confidence back that will get me a lot right there I suspect. I am always juuusst a bit off in the corners not wanting to spin and risk an accident with another driver. 2mph in every corner is 2 seconds and that could easily be lost by my reservations.

Last track day I was the only guy on the track when I ran the 43 for instance and a lot of it was my willingness to push a little harder since I had no fear of T-bone if I spun. Then the understeer really reared its head which of course is severely limiting for speed.

Andys - for grins, here is generally how I came up with the gear ratios fo the new trans... I set my max expected speed, then matched 3rd to it so that when I shift from third to fourth, I am at the same mph at max torque in 4th as max HP in 3rd. Then I matched the shift point the same for 2-3 and chose kind of a "long" gear for second from the highest 1st I could get.

So it is like an old school close ratio 4spd box in that I have a tight pattern 2-3-4 and 2nd is set up to maintain rpm down at lower mphs for slow turns (not much reason to go to 1st on the track).

My torque curve is pretty flat over a reasonable band too.. I make over 400 ft-lbs at sea level from 4300 to 6800 rpm so I have no problem short shifting 3rd if necessary, etc etc. I can run the motor out to 8000rpm should I have one of those stretches it is better to stay in a gear than shift and shift back 1 second later.

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and the gearing I am expecting to run... I asked the tech to come up with what he thinks independently just to compare thoughts.

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I know he runs softer than most of the "internet" recommendations
he told me to run 22 front torsion bars and 250 (or is it 275?) rear springs

and I think he said that was the same set up he had in his -4cylinder listed above.

That is one mean looking 914!

Simply amazing! Well insane is more like it!

So I guess this means AJ will be out racing with you guys instead of working on my heads?

I wasnt replying to Brant, I was replying to the pics of your tranny. The masturbation smiley looks disinterested, but we dont have one that is biting its lip and squinting.

That gear box is freaky impressive

Mendeola has a 914 that they use as a test mule.
LS1 (?) monster motor in it and a nice set of electronics lining the inside of the firewall. There is also a pile of wasted "test" transmission piled up near it. I'll get a pic if I ever get down there again.

That is exactly what I expected after going down 100 lb/in in the rear and 150 lb/in in the front as of last weekend when I swapped the front springs down again...

That is a VERY soft setup but I realize those cars are probably quite light as well. I am down now to 450 lb/in rears and 300 lb/in fronts (and of course the sway bar will bring that up in the corners a bit). I would honestly go even lower and up my sway bar and add a rear bar (which will come later as in next yr after I recoup $$) but the aforementioned suspension travel I didn't expect to need is nixing that idea.

thanks for the comments guys!

Evil - I was on the fence on that one and thought both - either you were saying the box is a bit of a "dirty girl" with a jerk or you were implying Brant was being tough on me so I figured the worst hahahaha

edit - just saw brer's comment - I have spoken with them about that car but have never seen it so yeah, get a pic if you can! I am going to ask the tech guy for a pic or 3 in the interim.

Finalized gear ratios today - they no longer had the 0.72 4th so it is 0.68. mph change is essentially the same, just increases overall mph which is fine.

Said two weeks to get the clutch from Kennedy and same two weeks to build the trans, so I will hopefully have it in 3wks... just about in time for it to start getting cold in the garage

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get the lotion.... IIIIIITTTTTT'S HHHHEEERRRREEEEE

My mom picked it up last Friday in Lakeside (San Diego area) and drove it out here on Monday since she was laid off a couple months ago and figured if I paid the gas, it was a free trip - left at 6AM to have two easy days of driving but ended up just doing it in 15 hrs and getting here at 10pm (1 hr time diff, don't question the math hahahah).

My friend swung by tonight with a cart he uses for his welder so we could get it in the garage - after my knee surgery I can't squat to get it on the ground but can lean over to get it on the cart

'Course they never build them "upside down" but just for me and a couple other road racers over the years, so they forgot to relocate the drain plug and breather fitting :dry: which I ain't sure how you could just "see" the issue since it was the first thing I saw, but turns out I can probably just use the orig drain plug for the vent and a couple plugs they put in it on top as the drains, so it will all work out. I was gonna be pissed if I had to send it back with mom, and my mom was not excited about that at all either.

And Kennedy sent the wrong flywheel so that will have to go back.

Nonetheless, it's here and I am pretty stoked to finally have it. Little shaky, but close enuf for now
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old and new - the 930 box I pulled out is there on the floor.
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oh yeah, I hadn't updated about the whole gear ratio swapping thing that went on beyond the previous posts.

In the end, the tech ended up remembering they had made three 3.28 ring and pinions for a road racer in Europe, and he only took 2 boxes so they had one set left on the shelf, which was a $1200 upgrade cuz it was custom, but the best solution.

So I was able to completely regear the trans to be a really bitchen set of ratios based on the 3.28 R&P. Here is what I get with the small 23.5" diameter tires for the shorter tracks and can use the larger diam 25.3" for more top speed on large tracks like Willow Springs when I get out there on a rare occasion.

large tires on left and small on right (tho' mph differences should make that obvious)

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what can I say about this thread except WOW!. Please take a video and post it of your first run down the block after you have everything sorted. Keep up the good work.

thanks Chris, will do! This will be a "winter" project but I am hoping to get a blast around the block sometime in Jan or Feb depending on how this winter goes (Denver area is really "iffy" but we have had two rather crappy winters in a row, some winters will only be 11-15 days with snow, so it's a crap shoot as to what the roads are like). My friend Ken will be helping me and he has a vid cam and will want a ride for sure

How much does that thing weigh....not that I'm in the market. It costs twice as much as my engine....or as much as one of Jake's hero motors. Just for a data point please.

It has got to be in the north of the 930 box but hopefully not by much... that said I intend to weigh it before I install and compare to the 930. With my knee surgery I am not able to do at that yet. Somewhere in the garage I have a note when I weighed the 930 with fluid in it back in May/June when I had everything out for the annual look-see.

If I remember to (which is always questionable when my memory is counted upon) I will put the 5qts of fluid in it beforehand (mostly so I don't have to dink with filling in the car) and get the total weight with fluid. Of course if I forget I can just weigh the fluid in the containers to add to it.

It is probably double a 901 box tho' for sure. I remember when I did a clutch at midnight one night (long, irritating story involving a new Kennedy PP) so I could get to work the next AM and I simply grabbed the 901 with my hands, set it down on my chest and rolled right out from under the car and I drop a testicle every time I just look at the 930