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carcam
I have a perfect 914-6 that is a great car. In 1970 it was incredible. I am tempted, as have others for 38+ years to make it a little better... I want to keep it looking stock but perform better. I know I could do exhaustive searches and learn all the tricks and upgrades and I have bought all the books but I want to know what you, the forum members would do. Keep it stock and do nothing, upgrade...--- ignition, cylinders, pmo's, suspension...

I'd like to lower the front end to look better but I suspect it adversely affects handling. My 2 L engine has been upgraded to 2.2 L w solex cams and it runs good but not great. But looking at it and it looks stock. And it shifts well. What about MSD, ignition upgrades, pmo's.

This is a wonderful forum, without it I couldn't have got such an old car since nobody around here even knows what it is and I'm not on the same level, mechanically as most of you.

Thanks!
Pat Garvey
QUOTE(carcam @ Nov 27 2008, 10:08 PM) *

I have a perfect 914-6 that is a great car. In 1970 it was incredible. I am tempted, as have others for 38+ years to make it a little better... I want to keep it looking stock but perform better. I know I could do exhaustive searches and learn all the tricks and upgrades and I have bought all the books but I want to know what you, the forum members would do. Keep it stock and do nothing, upgrade...--- ignition, cylinders, pmo's, suspension...

I'd like to lower the front end to look better but I suspect it adversely affects handling. My 2 L engine has been upgraded to 2.2 L w solex cams and it runs good but not great. But looking at it and it looks stock. And it shifts well. What about MSD, ignition upgrades, pmo's.

This is a wonderful forum, without it I couldn't have got such an old car since nobody around here even knows what it is and I'm not on the same level, mechanically as most of you.

Thanks!

Very, very nice looking six!

I can't tell exactly from the pic, but it looks like it already has been lowered. If it hasn't, I would lower it a half inch, and bump steer it. It will handle a lot better. I'd also put a good front bar on it. Some will say that a rear bar is also necessary, and they may be correct. I have found that, for my driving, lowering it bumping it are adequate.

Your six is too nice to screw with. I wouldn't touch the mechanicals - $$$$$ loss.

Of course, these are the opinions of a profound CW.

BTW, nice beater underneath! Nice garage too!
Pat
r_towle
Looking at your garage, I would suggest you pull the motor, put it in dry storage to keep it safe.

Go hunt down a 3.2 liter or a 3.0 liter....run it with carbs so you dont need to change any wiring in the car and enjoy all the new power. Get a good motor guy to take the new motor, get it pushing at least 200hp...

now you will have 200hp in a 2000lb car.

Rich
JeffBowlsby
An Adriatic Blue /6 w/Gasburners? Is this for real or a dream? Thats the best of the best my friend. Most can only aspire to that level, you can reach no higher plateau in the 914 universe, it does not exist.

All jesting aside, that such a rare car the only thing that could make it better is to take it back to as close to original as possible and baby it. I would mount the original triple Webers at least and resist the temptation of anything else. It will never be the roadrocket sitting beneath it, so don't try to make it into one...just enjoy it for what it is, any attempted 'improvements' will be negative.

You have the garage toys stored in their proper order of importance...smile.gif
1970 Neun vierzehn
QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Nov 27 2008, 07:43 PM) *

An Adriatic Blue /6 w/Gasburners? Is this for real or a dream? Thats the best of the best my friend. Most can only aspire to that level, you can reach no higher plateau in the 914 universe, it does not exist.

All jesting aside, that such a rare car the only thing that could make it better is to take it back to as close to original as possible and baby it. I would mount the original triple Webers at least and resist the temptation of anything else. It will never be the roadrocket sitting beneath it, so don't try to make it into one...just enjoy it for what it is, any attempted 'improvements' will be negative.

You have the garage toys stored in their proper order of importance...smile.gif


agree.gif agree.gif agree.gif There's nothing to add, Jeff answered your question precisely.

Paul
smg914
QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Nov 27 2008, 07:43 PM) *


such a rare car the only thing that could make it better is to take it back to as close to original as possible and baby it. I would mount the original triple Webers at least and resist the temptation of anything else. It will never be the roadrocket sitting beneath it, so don't try to make it into one...just enjoy it for what it is, any attempted 'improvements' will be negative.

You have the garage toys stored in their proper order of importance...smile.gif

I could not have said it better myself so please read this over and over and over.
r_towle
I understand the originality passion...I really do.

Question...what would he need to change if he just put in a 3.0 or a 3.2 liter motor with carbs....
Rich
Lou W
I say, leave it alone, enjoy it for what it is.... buy the engineless blue converted 914-6 at CAMP914 listed in the classified and go crazy with it. driving.gif
rick 918-S
I think I agree with Rich. But I think it's all in the approch. If I were to touch that holy grail of 914's I would have to insist on seeing that nothing was cut or modified. Only bolt on options and a straight up carb'ed 3.0 of 3.2.

I also agree with Jeff. That car ROCKS! aktion035.gif Resist the urge to tamper with it and just drive it like you stole it! driving.gif

BTW: welcome.png
1970 Neun vierzehn
QUOTE(r_towle @ Nov 27 2008, 08:39 PM) *

I understand the originality passion...I really do.

Question...what would he need to change if he just put in a 3.0 or a 3.2 liter motor with carbs....
Rich


With a 200 hp engine, I'd be concerned about the additional stress forces on a 40 year old chassis without structural and suspension upgrades and stiffening. The increase in power would naturally lead to faster acceleration and higher speed ranges which would then require improved braking capabilities. To fully appreciate that HP increase, the wheel/tire combination should be changed to take into account the altered chassis dynamics. With increased power and lateral acceleration numbers, a desire for more supportive seats might follow. With a 200 hp engine, the information supplied by the stock, standard instrumentation might not be deemed acceptable.

Paul
burton73
I disagree with some of my buds here. Yes your 6 is perfect but as the car has been upgraded to a 2.2 and you want more power, why don’t you have the top end redone as an S. My 70 911 S put out 180HP and was faster than hell. A 70T had 125HP a lot less. I had a 914 with your wheels and they’re great and with the extra power your car will give much more that little extra that you are wanting. No one will know but you. Get it tuned. You have changed it to a 2.2 so why not change it to a S. If you want you can put some S calipers up front and save your originals to put back on. Upgrade your rears to vented GT’s. Just make it a 914-6 S. They never had a 914-6 S, but if they made one that would be what you would have. You know the story of the 914-6 GTs. If you are profound CW (Cheese and Wine guy) you would of not changed to a 2.2.

Love the garage,

Bob
sww914
You may be able to be content to cruise your classic as is if you console yourself with the knowledge that you have a very fast Porsche, just not that one. I have a '72 1.7 that I really enjoy. It is not fast. at all. I still love cruising it around, it's cool and old and raw and even though it's rough it still gets plenty of attention. I also have a WRX and a 914 racecar, they're fast. I enjoy each of them for different reasons. It's kind of like having 3 girlfriends. smile.gif
burton73
Lou does have a point on the blue car. I was thinking of getting it for myself last week but it needs more brakes and suppression now that that has gone on the yellow car. A 3.2 back in there with more brakes and you have it. That is a great deal.

You will note that a number of us have a few cars. A bought my 3rd 914 this week with a V-8 and a 930 trans. because 914 are more fun to drive than 911’s

Bob
brp986s
A 3+ liter engine will need an aftermarket flywheel/clutch. Plus external oil cooler and exhaust upgrade. I don't know what tuning specs you would use in a carb application since porsche didn't offer this.

My factory -6 looks exactly like yours except mine has fuchs. I'm putting in a 3.2 motronic b/c I was tired of carb issues like flat spots, poor cold start, lousy gas milage, clogged jets, fouled plugs, stuck needle valves, smokey exhaust, backfire up the top and out the back. Aside from that they're great! Oh, and crappy power. I like for some to keep original time capsules, but for a car you want to enjoy driving, I can see modernizing as porsche would have done it. I keep all the original parts.
abbott295
"...not on the same level, mechanically..."

If it's not on jackstands, it's not on the same level mechanically. And it's on a lift!!!
Gustl
QUOTE(smg914 @ Nov 28 2008, 05:15 AM) *

QUOTE(Jeff Bowlsby @ Nov 27 2008, 07:43 PM) *


such a rare car the only thing that could make it better is to take it back to as close to original as possible and baby it. I would mount the original triple Webers at least and resist the temptation of anything else. It will never be the roadrocket sitting beneath it, so don't try to make it into one...just enjoy it for what it is, any attempted 'improvements' will be negative.

You have the garage toys stored in their proper order of importance...smile.gif

I could not have said it better myself so please read this over and over and over.



agree.gif


if you want a "fun car 914", please take a 4 and put a 3.2 in it, but leave this 6 as original as possible

just my 2 ct

bye1.gif Gustl
markb
agree.gif
smg914
Deleted

I deleted my reply because it was redundant. I should have read all the replies before I replied again. Sorry about that.
ConeDodger
You could wax it... Your 914 is doing better than the stock market. Beyond the wax, don't mess with it. biggrin.gif
Al Meredith
I too am in the process of restoring a real 914-6. I have the origional engine on a shelf in the garage. I want to build a bigger engine as well. I will not cut the body for an oil cooler so I guess I'll have to stay with a 2.2 or maybe a mild 2.4. any comments?
brp986s
QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Nov 28 2008, 08:31 AM) *

You could wax it... Your 914 is doing better than the stock market.


thats not saying much. But, speaking of the stock market, now may be the time to buy non-rustable metal. sorry for the hijack, but thought this was interesting:

gold
carr914
QUOTE(Lou W @ Nov 27 2008, 11:53 PM) *

I say, leave it alone, enjoy it for what it is.... buy the engineless blue converted 914-6 at CAMP914 listed in the classified and go crazy with it. driving.gif



QUOTE(burton73 @ Nov 28 2008, 12:15 AM) *

Lou does have a point on the blue car. I was thinking of getting it for myself last week but it needs more brakes and suppression now that that has gone on the yellow car. A 3.2 back in there with more brakes and you have it. That is a great deal.


Bob


I don't think that Duc took the brakes off the Blue car @ Camp914. Just the engine & tranny. So that is a SWEET car for someone to build & play with.

I'm restoring a 914-6, but I'm doing things to it that CWs would cringe at. I don't care, because 1st. they are being done First Class and 2nd, I don't ever plan on getting rid of it.

T.C.
carcam
Thanks for all the replies. I just got back from a nice drive and I'm going to keep it a is. It's lots of fun without 200hp. The carbs are a little touchy. It's kind of rough at idle- maybe I'll change the plug wires,coil, distributor cap. The 914 was my first Porsche in college ('70 1.7ltr) and after some new 911's, it' nice to get in the teener on sunny days. I appreciate all your help on these boards- really great bunch of guys (no offense to any lady members).
burton73

Bob
[/quote]

I don't think that Duc took the brakes off the Blue car @ Camp914. Just the engine & tranny. So that is a SWEET car for someone to build & play with.

I'm restoring a 914-6, but I'm doing things to it that CWs would cringe at. I don't care, because 1st. they are being done First Class and 2nd, I don't ever plan on getting rid of it.

T.C.
[/quote]


T.C.,
The suspension was switched. They’re where a lot of post but as of last week I was just ready to do it and changed my mind because of that very thing. If you look at the pictures of the changing of parts you will see that the blue car ended up with the yellow cars suspension.

Bob
Johny Blackstain
I also own a 70 914-6, but it has been hot rodded (2.7) & I suspect it's what you'd like. However, hot rod another car & do not mess w/ that beautiful blue baby. Find the Webbers put them back on. Build another "super 914" or buy one that has already been bastardized, as I did.
Bill D
My initial reaction was to keep it stock but when you think about it it's your car and if you drive it make it what you want. I modified my 6 30+ years ago starting with a 2.2E with 40IDAs and it took off from there. I never regretted it.
GeorgeRud
I was faced with the same dilema, I wanted more power from my 1970 factory 914-6. I'd had the car since 1977, and did finally succumb to changing out the 27 mm venturis to the 30 mm ones, and rejetting the carbs as was mentioned in the old Panorama articles or Upfixen der Porsche (for you PCA types like me).

To curb my cravings, I purchased a 1973 914 1.7, pulled out the engine and trans, and all the stops. Now, 2.7 liters with nice E cams, 915 transaxle, metal flares, Carrera brakes, stiffened chassis, etc., etc., I have my toy with no worries about destroying a nice original -6. It still goes out on nice sunny drives, but now to just simply cruise around and not race around. I figured that after all these years of reliable service, she deserved to be able to semi-retire (like her owner!).

Sleepin
Ok, here is usually I would say "it is your car, do what you want." However, in the case of something as well kept and rare as this one.... well it it kind of the case of "it is not your car, you are merely keeping it in safekeeping for the next guy." The car is a beautiful piece of history, and it would be great for it to stay the way it is.

However, (again) it really is your car and you can do what you want to it. We can only encourage you to try to maintain what originality it has left. biggrin.gif
749142
you know if you didnt care about the 911 turbo underneath, you could pull that engine and put it in the teener!!! 480hp or so right? what a nightmare. but of course you could just go hunt down a 3.2 and put the original in dry storage
Jeffs9146
I think the 3.0 can be run fine without an external oil cooler! Modify the existing cooler, throw on a flywheel, clutch, crank fire ign and carbs piratenanner.gif and put the 2.2 in dry storage until you decide to sell the car!

That's my $.02
sbonthemesa
Sorry, no. The 3.0 and up all need extra cooling. There HAVE been a few that haven't. It's not an instant 20 minute need, it's a long term 1 hour plus linear need or a track need.

Just speaking from experience.
westgl


I'll tell you what just sell me that blue 914-6, and Then the sky's the limit, your ready to build a beast

Westgl
6freak
QUOTE(carcam @ Nov 27 2008, 07:08 PM) *

I have a perfect 914-6 that is a great car. In 1970 it was incredible. I am tempted, as have others for 38+ years to make it a little better... I want to keep it looking stock but perform better. I know I could do exhaustive searches and learn all the tricks and upgrades and I have bought all the books but I want to know what you, the forum members would do. Keep it stock and do nothing, upgrade...--- ignition, cylinders, pmo's, suspension...

I'd like to lower the front end to look better but I suspect it adversely affects handling. My 2 L engine has been upgraded to 2.2 L w solex cams and it runs good but not great. But looking at it and it looks stock. And it shifts well. What about MSD, ignition upgrades, pmo's.

This is a wonderful forum, without it I couldn't have got such an old car since nobody around here even knows what it is and I'm not on the same level, mechanically as most of you.

Thanks!

All bolt ons you can remove and dont go with big power you`ll twist it all up and start bracking welds....If you want to freak something out go with the ass dragger those are a dime a dozen...save every part you remove so you can put it back when needed.I have a factory six and ive upgraded the suspension and a few other small things and im someday wanting a 2.2 but i will mothball the stock motor and go with a defferant case and everything just so i have the original stuff to put it back if needed.....Good luck with it all ,,,,That car is a peach
carcam
Stock it is- or at least a stock as it is now. We've been tweaking it this weekend and got it running great (a little rough at idle). As tempting as it is to put a bigger engine in it, I'm finding I really like making a slow car go fast as opposed to driving the fast car slow. My favorite 356's are always the outlaws- I just need to get over it.
Sleepin
QUOTE(carcam @ Nov 29 2008, 09:06 AM) *

Stock it is- or at least a stock as it is now. We've been tweaking it this weekend and got it running great (a little rough at idle). As tempting as it is to put a bigger engine in it, I'm finding I really like making a slow car go fast as opposed to driving the fast car slow. My favorite 356's are always the outlaws- I just need to get over it.



agree.gif aktion035.gif Good choice!
jfort
my six came with a 2.5L "short stroker," E cam and Webers. I like the torque, the quickness and the sound.
Drums66
it looks like you have the Porsche Spectrum of Driving
Vehicle's right there!........Be content smoke.gif
Rav914
QUOTE(Sleepin @ Nov 29 2008, 08:08 AM) *

QUOTE(carcam @ Nov 29 2008, 09:06 AM) *

Stock it is- or at least a stock as it is now. We've been tweaking it this weekend and got it running great (a little rough at idle). As tempting as it is to put a bigger engine in it, I'm finding I really like making a slow car go fast as opposed to driving the fast car slow. My favorite 356's are always the outlaws- I just need to get over it.



agree.gif aktion035.gif Good choice!


+1. Good choice. What a great looking car.
number6
QUOTE(burton73 @ Nov 28 2008, 12:06 PM) *

T.C.,
The suspension was switched. They’re where a lot of post but as of last week I was just ready to do it and changed my mind because of that very thing. If you look at the pictures of the changing of parts you will see that the blue car ended up with the yellow cars suspension.

Bob


Just a clarification: The blue car remains EXACTLY as it was first advertised. I believe Bob is referring to my conversion thread, where some (but not all) suspension components were switched around between this and my yellow car prior to it being listed. What is for sale is what is (and has always been) listed. Hope that clears things up smile.gif
number6
QUOTE(carcam @ Nov 29 2008, 08:06 AM) *

Stock it is- or at least a stock as it is now. We've been tweaking it this weekend and got it running great (a little rough at idle). As tempting as it is to put a bigger engine in it, I'm finding I really like making a slow car go fast as opposed to driving the fast car slow. My favorite 356's are always the outlaws- I just need to get over it.


For everyday driving, I'm with you 100%. Having just converted to a 3.2, I can tell you it's wicked fun, but I miss pushing the car to make it go.

From the look of your garage, though, I'm guessing the -6 is not a daily driver but instead only comes out for fun jaunts. In that case, I think you would really enjoy something like a well-tuned, FI 2.4, just to give you that little extra go. No permanent mods to the car, of course! Depending on your driving preference, you may actually like a non-S motor more. My '73.5T is an absolute blast to drive - it's surprisingly quick, and that's in a car that's several hundred pounds heavier. 140HP for a later 2.4T may not seem like a lot on paper, but a good example will surprise you. Before finding my car (47K original miles), I drove dozens of early T's, E's, and S's, and the difference between so-so-tuned cars to one setup as the factory intended is night and day! I think such a motor would be the perfect match for a 914 without compromising overall balance. Again, for a street setup, especially given your preference.

Your car is gorgeous, btw! Is that original paint?

-duc


(Oh, and you obviously know about Emory Motorsports for 356 Outlaws, no? http://emorymotorsports.com/ )
Eric_Shea
Get a 2.2S motor and have it finely tuned. I would not consider a 3.0+ motor because IMO it's just too much motor for a "stock" 914 chassis.

If you can't have a boatload of fun with a 2.2 or 2.4S motor somethings wrong. I had an everloving blast with my "stock" 2.0 six.
6freak
QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Nov 29 2008, 07:06 PM) *

Get a 2.2S motor and have it finely tuned. I would not consider a 3.0+ motor because IMO it's just too much motor for a "stock" 914 chassis.

If you can't have a boatload of fun with a 2.2 or 2.4S motor somethings wrong. I had an everloving blast with my "stock" 2.0 six.


I agree with this statement very much .Im only pulling the stock 2.0 so i dont damage it in anyway doing A.X and track days.But I am putting in a 2.2 just for a bit more go power and i do think it will riase the fun level...good luck


MoveQik
QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Nov 29 2008, 08:06 PM) *

Get a 2.2S motor and have it finely tuned. I would not consider a 3.0+ motor because IMO it's just too much motor for a "stock" 914 chassis.

Now I am offended biggrin.gif

I say leave your car alone and buy the least collectible 914...say a 1975 1.8...and put a 3.2 in it just for fun. That is what I would do. Did I mention how nice your car is? drooley.gif
Eric_Shea
You're so sensative! biggrin.gif

I think 3.0's, 3.2's, 3.4's, and 3.6's can be a blast if you strengthen our little flexi-flyers. But... with a stock, mint 914-6 chassis I'd only go so far. wink.gif
ConeDodger
QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Nov 30 2008, 10:02 AM) *

You're so sensative! biggrin.gif

I think 3.0's, 3.2's, 3.4's, and 3.6's can be a blast if you strengthen our little flexi-flyers. But... with a stock, mint 914-6 chassis I'd only go so far. wink.gif


Yup! agree.gif I have seen the suspension ears torn on hopped up 4 cylinders.
Michael N
Making the decision to alter or change an original six as clean as yours is a really difficult decision. If I was in the same position I don't know what I would do.

I can tell you that when I bought my six I wasn't bothered as much as maybe I should have been that it didn't have the original engine. Maybe 20 years from now it will. Back in 1978 the PO swapped the engine for a MFI 2.4 S engine from a 1973 911. I just got back from a quick romp on a back road and have a huge smile on my face. I don't believe the original 100HP would have given me the same thrill. I guess having the original engine on a shelf somewhere would be nice, but I love my car the way it is set up.
number6
QUOTE(Michael N @ Nov 30 2008, 05:34 PM) *

Making the decision to alter or change an original six as clean as yours is a really difficult decision. If I was in the same position I don't know what I would do.

I can tell you that when I bought my six I wasn't bothered as much as maybe I should have been that it didn't have the original engine. Maybe 20 years from now it will. Back in 1978 the PO swapped the engine for a MFI 2.4 S engine from a 1973 911. I just got back from a quick romp on a back road and have a huge smile on my face. I don't believe the original 100HP would have given me the same thrill. I guess having the original engine on a shelf somewhere would be nice, but I love my car the way it is set up.


I agree totally. I think the sweet spot for a street 914 is 140-170HP with decent torque. 100-120 can be fun, but I think it leaves you wanting more often than not. 140-170 gets your heart racing and leaves you grinning ear to ear. No comparison.
pete-stevers
Yes i think this time i agree with the peeps...
keep this car very close to stock or tweek it conservatively
and find a four to bastardize (like i did)
or a rough six to hop up,
but i think you will retain value if you maintain the car in an original fashion
carcam
QUOTE(number6 @ Nov 29 2008, 09:50 PM) *

QUOTE(carcam @ Nov 29 2008, 08:06 AM) *

Stock it is- or at least a stock as it is now. We've been tweaking it this weekend and got it running great (a little rough at idle). As tempting as it is to put a bigger engine in it, I'm finding I really like making a slow car go fast as opposed to driving the fast car slow. My favorite 356's are always the outlaws- I just need to get over it.


For everyday driving, I'm with you 100%. Having just converted to a 3.2, I can tell you it's wicked fun, but I miss pushing the car to make it go.

From the look of your garage, though, I'm guessing the -6 is not a daily driver but instead only comes out for fun jaunts. In that case, I think you would really enjoy something like a well-tuned, FI 2.4, just to give you that little extra go. No permanent mods to the car, of course! Depending on your driving preference, you may actually like a non-S motor more. My '73.5T is an absolute blast to drive - it's surprisingly quick, and that's in a car that's several hundred pounds heavier. 140HP for a later 2.4T may not seem like a lot on paper, but a good example will surprise you. Before finding my car (47K original miles), I drove dozens of early T's, E's, and S's, and the difference between so-so-tuned cars to one setup as the factory intended is night and day! I think such a motor would be the perfect match for a 914 without compromising overall balance. Again, for a street setup, especially given your preference.

Your car is gorgeous, btw! Is that original paint?

-duc
Not original paint- complete nut and bolt restoration 10 years ago; garage queen since. A nice 2.4 T engine w fuel injection would be fun! And I have heard of emory motorsports. Thanks.


(Oh, and you obviously know about Emory Motorsports for 356 Outlaws, no? http://emorymotorsports.com/ )

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