http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26531610/

This pisses me off. I've bought a bunch of their pliers and really like most of them. I for one won't be buying them anymore. Now if I manage to break one they're going to give me a china made replacement. If anyone wants to send them feedback here's their page http://www.irwin.com/irwin/consumer/jhtml/contactUs.jhtml
I sent them a letter myself.

John

Those guys need some hope and change fast.

No more V-grips for me.

I don't understand. My house has always used vice-grip because they were the best and made here. Not any longer.

The situation really sucks for those guys.

Letter sent. The market for used Vise Grip pliers and clamps is gonna go outta sight!

The Cap'n

I just sent a letter myself. Not that it will change anything, but damn is there ANYTHING made in the USA anymore?

Poverty/unemployment

Letter sent.


Anybody know of a good alternative to their pliers?

letter sent to those commy bastards

I too have sent an email. I have worked for two companies ( one of them GE) that have had products made in China and they come back as real crap. Both of these companies are leaders in their field and since I am sort of a "techie" I tell them all the time "I hope you are making a lot of money on this stuff so that we can afford to replace it and pay for my time to trouble shoot ,"

Man that sucks. I am glad I own about a half dozen of the made in america ones.

Thanks for the response guys. The only alternative I know of thats not real expensive is Sears used to sell their craftsman version of vise grips. They don't have all the variety but they cover the basics and are made is the US. Of course they are probably made at the Vise Grip facility.

John

Unfortunately, it takes a while for these companies to find out that they're losing the very things that made them successful in the first place when they outsource to China. If I want a cheap tool that I don't care about, I use Harbor Freight. When I want a good quality tool, I call my local Snap-On distributor!

Debt, doc....we're really good at that.....

throw out everything in your house that says made in china on it or in it.
I dare you.

These days that's just about everything....

No wonder our economy is in the dump- things get a little shaky and now everybody's running off to the cheap labor sources. It won't matter if their products are coming back as real crap or not because pretty soon nobody's gonna be able to afford to buy their product anyway because nobody's gonna have a job.

This reminds me of an email I received some weeks ago when we were getting those economic stimulus checks- I can't remember the bulk of it, but it was something to the effect of this:

Where should we spend our economic stimulus money? If you spend it at Wal-Mart, it will go to china. If you buy some electronics, it will go to japan. If you buy gas, it will go to the middle east. So spend your money at garage sales- because those are the only businesses still based in America!

This bites...

Anytime I need a set of Vise-Grips, I search out the ones in the box that aren't made in China or Taiwan, they never hold or grip worth a damn.

What we are seeing with the "global" economy is a gradual leveling of the standard of living of working people. The countries with cheap labor and limited or no costs for safety/environmental issues will produce the product at the best price. We can buy cheap from Wal Mart and Harbor Freight. Now, what do the 300 workers in Nebraska do to earn the wages they once had? I don't know the solution but the problem is clear: working people in this country are seeing a reduced standard of living. The service industry does not pay the wages that manufacturing used to.

Another thing related to this that really gets me ticked off is we pay a 17% tariff for US goods sold in China. The Chinese don't pay a tariff other than on paper due to the supreme courts ruling.

John

I've spent my entire career in manufacturing, very few consumer products are still made in the U.S.A

My two questions to the "Vise Grip Corp." are: what took you so long, and why now?

Are they unable to compete with the foreign copies? From the response on this thread it appears that we sure like their products & would continue to buy even at a higher price.

I've always sought out the best products, no matter where they are made, not the cheapest.

It sounds to me like they are making a big mistake moving this offshore, now the only thing they have going for them is their past reputation and name.

This could disappear quickly and they will have nothing.

Sending this out on the AMFA union web.

corruption...

My first tool set was made in China, broke almost every tool in the kit, the ratchet broke in a matter of a couple days, i bent some of the crescent wrenches, and snapped a ton of the allen wrenches. After that, i went and bought i nice set of Craftsman tools on black friday and haven't regret spending that money at all. The best tools are made here in the US, no doubt in my mind. The only tools to buy now are Lowes' Kobalt and Sears Craftsman.

I don't know of any foreign tool company that gives a hassle-free lifetime warranty on any of there tools. My kobalt ratchet broke, walked in to lowes and they gave me a new one, took ten minutes, maybe!! A warranty like that doesn't come with foreign CRAP!!!

Stahlwille, made in Germany since 1862 ...
http://www.stahlwille.com/

Andy

Anyone remember a few years back when Stanley was going to move offshore to dodge U.S. taxes? That still haunts them.

Since 1865, Klein Tools are still made in the USA (plants in Illinois, Michigan, New York and Arkansas), with US steel, and have a lifetime warranty. Not big in the automotive channel, but still the pro electrician's choice.

Klein tools are top notch.

Maybe Leatherman could buy the patent (or design a better one)?

we have been the largest financial contributor to China's industrial revolution and then somehow get upset after 30yrs of buying shit made in Asian countries when all of the jobs are going away.

We (in general terms) did this one to ourselves because we bitch when people move overseas, but frankly don't actually stop buying/using foreign built products. We just like to bitch but also bitch if the price is higher than those foreign ones.

Credit cards are another perfect example of things going to a completely different (tho' Asian) location. Everyone I talk to bitches about getting some "foreign bastard" on the phone and how they took an American job, but how many people have stopped using their cards and paid them off and told the banks to F off until they bring customer service back to this country??

So if you are serious about attempting to really make an impact on forcing companies to reconsider moving to China, then as Brer said, remove all foreign built products or products with foreign products inside of them from your house and only purchase all USA products, which BTW, implies shouldn't be buying any Porsche stuff either.

And don't think I somehow am glad business is moving to China/elsewhere and "unemploying" fellow Americans as that isn't the case, but this has been decades in the making. I remember being a kid in the late 70s and the stigma of seeing Made in China on items and my parents refusing to buy it and nobody drove foreign cars except a few with Subarus and people would bad mouth 'em... now it is seen as lame to drive anything but foreign - and again, did that to ourselves with shitty cars that can't make it past 100K miles. Sadly, vice grips are really, really, really low on the foreign built totem pole.

CRAP!

Why am I not surprised that Newell-Rubbermaid had something to do with this? They took the Rubbermaid name to China after the original US company (in Ohio, IIRC) went broke after getting involved with Walmart.

I remember getting into a pretty heated discussion with an AF Major I was working for--he couldn't understand why I would "waste" $$$ on US-made tools (Craftsman, Snap-on, MAC), when I could get Chinese-made tools for $ at Walmart. I told him if he ever had to actually use the tools he'd understand why . . . also told him it's people like him that would eventually keep even the people who know the difference from being able to get good tools--not to mention what it does to our country . . . .

Its not just the US either--recently I'm even seeing "made in China" on what used to be exclusively German products (Henckels knives, etc.). Seems like we're in a global race for the bottom . . . with cheapness crowding out quality at every turn.

Sorry, I'm down off my soapbox now . . . .

So, who did you send your e-mail(s) to?

Try to find anything in Costco NOT made on mainland China or ROC. While my wife shops , I browse the pallet racks and try to do just that. Schwinn bikes "Made in China" is what the box said today. You can almost spot a "Made in China" box at ten feet...they all have corragated ( thin wall) cardboard box made in a different color than most U.S. crates. Also checked out the Waste King disposers...designed in the U.S.A. by Anaheim Mfg. With a bit more investigating on the box...low and behold "Made in China".
Three things that scare me about China: their pollution of the air and waterways with mfg. byproducts ; Their lack of concern of contamination in their food production for humans and pets; and if they decide to call in all of their outstanding accounts payable from all of the U.S. merchants selling their crap, most of whom are operating on a shoestring in this economy, our $$ forecast will get uglier.
I am going to miss the U.S. made Vise Grips. I guess we can call the new ones Vise Gripes
Marty

Yes most "Porche Design" non-automotive products come from China too.

On another note, there was a time when "made in Japan" meant it was crap. And Kia has moved upmarket aparently with some success too.

I think I would rather my money go to China than Suadi Arabia and Kuwait...

Have you bought a Leatherman tool lately? We have all but dropped them at the Hardware store I work for, they are real cheesedicks when you get a problem with a tool lately, and the margins for resellers are VERY thin. Klein tools are excellent, and we get tools from Germany that are good, mostly nutdrivers and ball drivers (hex). Stanley still makes a few tools in the US but not many. To be competitive with the box stores everyone is going Chinese (or worse, and yes there are worse) tools, we have a great resistance to customers spending the 30% or more for the "pro tool." Our pro customers usually will but even that market is eroding. And be careful talking shit about Japanese tools, they still make some of the best edged tools (saws, chisels, planes) made anywhere in the world, and their prybars are very good also. Also the Scandinavian countries still make a lot of good stuff....also expensive..

Never heard of Stahlville before, looks like good tools, where are they sold in the U.S? I still think the U.S. makes some of the best tools, can't really say that about our cars, sadly

That's STAHLWILLE. I have a bunch of 'em, and have for over 35 years. Baum Tools, some sellers on Ebay (such as Samstag Sales), Pendergrass Tools in CA, possibly Zelenda, and some others. They're big bucks, but hold up well, and the combi wrenches feel so good in your hand you'll wonder why you ever had any other brand. BTW, MAC tools are Stanley, and much of the selection of Sears tools come from China, just like everyone else's. Facom owns S&K. Facom is European, S&K is likely Chinese sourced. A lot of the tool trucks have their "name" brand and a second line, again mostly from China.

Happy shopping! The Cap'n

If the quality becomes these: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...Itemnumber=6002 then we are all hosed. Worst pieces of crap. If you can get them to lock, they usually twist sideways because the frames have no rigidity. Some of the HF stuff is acceptable, mostly the stuff with no moving parts. I broken Craftsman, Matco, Snap-on, and HF. The worst thing with the HF tools is the unpredictability as to when they will break; probably no quality control. The one thing I've will give them though, is they have never balked at replacing something I've broken.

I broke a 1/4 Craftsman ratchet last week. Took it back, the Sears guy and I went over to glasscase. He says you've had this one awhile, huh? Yep. He pulls one down and says that it replaces the one I broke. I said that looks cheap & chinese. I'll pay to upgrade to this other one. He says that would be wise, takes it up to the register, prints up an exchange ticket and Gave me the upgraded ratchet. It pays to know what your looking at and being lucky talking to right guy.

T.C.

If you are looking for a new knife,
I bought a couple of these knives through my cousin who work for them, and I actually think they are pretty bitchin.

http://www.messermeister.com/

Be happy they aren't moving to India.

Found this on the net:
Craftsman tools came under fire in 2004 in a lawsuit accusing Sears, Roebuck and Company of false advertising and consumer fraud for questionable use of the "Made in USA" slogan. While many Craftsman hand tools are manufactured in the U.S., many power tools and accessories are manufactured in China, sometimes with the final assembly taking place in the U.S.


I’ve gone through 4 of the ¼ ratchets from Craftsman. The gear strips out. The last time I went I complained about it and the guy said they are now using a plastic gear inside instead of metal. Great. I’ll end up bringing it back in a month or so.

Also have you ever seen a list of part by country of a new Porsche? Lots of Japanese, Chinese parts in it. I think it was in the Pano that had the (then brand new) ‘05 997 in it.

For good or ill, we are a global economy. Businesses need to balance cost and quality against their target market.

The people that will buy quality no matter the cost is a small market, and already has good penetration.

The people that buy quality = cost are looking at Craftsman grade tools, and that market is still relatively small with good penetration by a few companies.

The majority of the market wants cheap tools that will only need to be used a handful of times. They are going to buy purely based on cost, and even then probably won't use the tool enough to wear it out or break it.

There is money to made selling tools, but the only markets that arn't saturated are the once selling to cost. You have one guess at where cost driven items are made.

Dismal? Maybe. Raising tariffs and closing borders would not be a good long term solution either though. For most consumers, it would not even be a good short term solution, as they are not interested in the quality products - they are buying on cost. Tariffs would raise their final cost, possibly putting American businesses out of business by removing their bread and butter items.

I've got several sets of vise-grips that are over 20 years old. The company has not made a dime off of me. If they want to stick around, they need to make a product that will sell to a cost point audience.

Zach

Last year I ordered two front brake disks for a VW Golf from an online vendor. A note came with them, "These are made in the factory which supplies the VW assembly plant in China. They are excellent; as good as the German ones used to be." "PS: Some of the German companies are selling re-boxed ones made in China and South America so "Made In Germany" now for sure means "at least boxed in Germany".)"

Too bad Vise-Grip can't have two lines, like Sears does with their hand tools. Cheapo made in China for the masses ("Companion") and also their made in U.S.A. line.

I'm assuming Sears is making a profit on their made in U.S.A. hand tools. I'd find it hard to believe they would carry such a large brand of made in U.S.A. hand tools if it was losing money.

I bought some valves for a 912
said Germany on the box
inside on the valve was a little sticker that said South Afrika.

Well, we *did* own Namibia at one point in time ...

Was called "Deutsch Südwestafrika" back then.
Andy

What ever happened to all those fondue sets SNL was gonna send to Namibia? Did Garrett Morris abscond with all the donations? Is he selling them on E-bay?

The Cap'n

another societal issue that plays into this is that we are becoming more and more wasteful - we are really becoming a throw away society.

A simple example is the current view regarding technology - I literally just ordered a new laptop last week because my "old" one I use all the time is 7yrs old now and was the "top of the line" everything whiz-bang business IBM Thinkpad that ULCA required me to have for my MBA. That machine is an absolute dinosaur now - I have a hard time viewing highly compressed YouTube stuff and other vid sites I actually can't even play the vid because the graphics card is "so" old for example.

So our kids are being raised with the mentality that anything that is over 5yrs old is just that... old. That ripples thru everything - it becomes a fundamental way of thinking. And people of my generation (Gen X, now we have Gen Y) are similar thinking now.

And that plays into tools. As previously stated by a fellow teener, many people barely use tools and will never wear out even the shittiest of tools. So, if the Chinese tool is 1/3 the cost, the view is "I can break three of these before I pay for one good one and I will never use it enough to break 3 of 'em" so they buy the disposable tool, break one after a couple years, throw it away and buy another and die before breaking it and buying a third one.

It is very wasteful, but cheaper overall and that is where our societal mentality is heading - being wasteful isn't a sin if it is cheaper. I, however, was raised by parents that were absolutely furious if the wash machine died within the first fifteen years of purchase - my shit-ass "whiz-bang" LG washer died in 2 yrs and the dryer has been having issues since just after the 1yr warranty but I can make work. That was $2500 worth of bitchin' technology that lasts THREE years. And I have been searching online to buy better and can't find it - Sears stuff is junk, Hell even the old standby of Maytag has become questionable since they were bought out.

In short, I am getting a shitty viewpoint on life which sucks, but frankly, we're fucked folks. It is only going downhill in terms of quality pretty much across the board.

Oh yeah, I am using a Maytag washer again that I bought used when I moved out for $50 and it was built sometime in the 60s or 70s. The guy I bought it from in the 90s bought them used when he moved out in the early 80s! In 30yrs of service including my years, the previous owner had replaced the belt on the washer and the heating element on the dryer. The dryer element burned out again which is why I bought new stuff. Thankfully I kept the old washer "just in case"

I'm kind of lucky there . . . both of my kids are driving old Volvo 240s (one in a 91, the other in an 83). But I'm sure part of the reason is that they know their old man can use his high quality tools to keep them running . . . .

yep, the whole Spicoli "Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it."

If they are into Volvos they might want to check out Turbo Bricks forum. My friend has a fricken unbelievable late 80s wagon making 488HP and 501 ft-lbs torque out of 2.5L and drives it to work all the time!! (Quikswede is his Bricks name IIRC). He is now 3-4mph faster mph in the 1/4 mile than my obnoxious V8 'teen!

his personal site - he calls this car "Irene" and has lots of pix in his gallery as well.
http://www.denverspeed.com

Yep.The majority of MassIVe engine components.. I actually have some engines that only use USA made aftermarket parts..

BUT everyone gripes and says its too expensive...

Get ready, the Chinese are REALLY suffering due to our economy here... They are willing to pay shipping, make free tooling and etc just to get our buck.

I'll tell you something funny along the lines of people buy cheap disposable crap.

I buy mostly antique and vintage when I can. Looks nicer and last longer. If I sell something I can almost always get my money back or more. I eat on 50-80 year old china with 22k leaf every day. I guarantee I paid less then what people pay for disposable crap.

What happens is these younger people get their parents estate when they die and just don't want this stuff. I move in and buy(they probably spend it at walmart). I pay cash and pennies on the dollar while my neighbors are struggling to pay the credit card they drove up on Ikea crap they already threw out.