I have been informed by my lordco paint rep that at the end of the year, we will no longer be able to buy solvent based auto paint, and we will be forced to switch to waterborn paints which require a ubber spensive cross draft booths, not to mention all the solvent paint guns will be obsolete....
basicaly killing any hobbiest paint operations...like me
any thoughts or ideas???
it is to implemented here in Can and Cal.

I think I read in a mag that by 2010 the switch will be in the US for waterborne paints. Besides the chemicals what are the differences in them. Which is better?

my understanding is that they will still allow clear, but the base and possibly the primer will be water based, the problem lies in the fact that the w/b paint requires a perfectly dust free paint booth and high cfm fans to dry.
it basically spells the end to the hobbist, due to the high cost of the booth.
unless some creative ideas surface here
i will be stock piling a bunch of solvent based primers, hardeners and paints for any future projects

Im sure with everything, someone will design a low cost system.

Besides dont you want a perfectly dust free paint booth anyways. Even when I painted in my garage I tried to make it dust free. ie water down the floor etc...

IF it comes to California alone, it makes for a good excuse for a trip to Reno and a Buffet dinner at Boomtown!

Air movement is part of the drying but heaters are also part of the evaporation of the water based solvent. I don't think it will kill the hobbiest. Were too resourceful as americans. We'll figure it out.

exactly....
i just need to start figuring....cause now that i have started painting it is not something i want to drop..it is way to much fun..even if the runs didn't come from a fish burger...

I'm just starting to read about it. I'm thinking the hobbiest will need to invest in heat lamps. I'm not sure the actual application is anymore fussy than spraying the current solvent based, base/clear, base coat. It's getting the water based solvent to evaporate. That will take heat lamps. So, the production shops doing partial paints for collision repair will be doing very little more than they do now. Booth times may so a little but my guys used heat lamps to speed cure clear coat years ago.

I still have one of my old Sunkist heat lamps in the garage. It's a large thermoreactor. It opporates on propane. I'm going to have to see if this will work on water borne....

the propane heater will cause to much moisture, from what i have read and heard you need air movement, and lots of it for the paint to flash off

just buy paint in mex-e-co

i have heard that even if i buy paint in the US of A the paint may be seized at the border... we will see about that one

Those guys in nothern Cali should have it made. Just take some of their sun lamps off of their indoor crops for a while.

So the decision for them is... New paint or better crops

He's probably got access to some up there somewhere through someone.......ever here the term "BC Bud"?

Actually I believe all/most of the new european cars are that way with paint. Except I believe even clear coat is as well due to european environmental restrictions. The paint thus far is not nearly as durable vs. stone chips and the like. Makes investing in clear bra on a new car a very sound decision.

Waterborne paint makes no difference on the gun used. I have shot it through my " normal " Sata that I have used for 3 years and it shoots just fine. As for killing the hobbyist, I am with Rick. It can be overcome. I have spoken at length with my paint rep and I am not worried about it one bit. Here in mid Va we will probably be the last to see it. NOVA on the other hand is a lot more " ECO " anal The one thing no one seems to be able to answer for me is how do you put a waterborne primer on top of bare metal and not have an immediate flash rust issue ? Rep says as far as he can figur the paint is " supposed " to flash fast enough not to be a problem, but he too has doubts about it

i have learned that the base will be the only water born paint in the mix the clear and primer will still have VOCs....which is confusing
a painter will have to use a dual sys, voc and water base solutions

My friend has already switched to it in his body shop. The change isn't due until July in this county, it happened in Jan in LA and Santa Barbara AFAIK. He switched early just to have time to adapt. He said he likes it just fine, in some ways it's better than the old basecoat. The primers and clears are still solvent based, it's just the basecoat so far. He says that all he's had to buy is a couple of handheld venturis at $60.00 each.
He said that air movement is key. They aren't using heat lamps any more than they did before but air movement us critical.

Here in good old Cali it already switch over to waterborne base the 1st of this year. You can still buy solvent base but they say you have to buy the ubber expensive reducer like around 80 buck a gallon for Omni.

Big friggin deal about waterborn or waterbased paints!!!

Checkout Autoaircolors

I have used this paint on a few projects....



I have the car on dollies... roll them out into the sun or like you say heat lamps and fans....Biggest heat lamp we have is the sun...

Both of these cars were painted with Auto Air paints..

Click to view attachment


They don't have a waterborne clear yet so you still need to dress up and protect when spraying the iso-cyanates

Also its really nice to just use soap and warm water to clean a spray gun...

I say bring it on...I have no problem with this..

Missed this on first read

All your existing guns will work... if you happen to have guns with parts that will corrode when exposed to water.. well you just gave to break them down and dry them after you paint....

yes the sun....you need to bring up that sore point ..don-cha
i see the sun maybe a couple of times a year here in rainy BC

Pretty easy.... you can mix water and vinegar?

same as waterborne etching primer..

I have no problem with the new generation of paints... The less solvent and chemical exposure I see the better...

As with anything there is a learning curve. It is interesting about waterborne primer causing possible flash rust. I wouldn't worry about that too much. Were not going to be required to use that just yet. I think by the time were subjected to that they will come up with a primer that contains acid as a coalesing solvent.

I snatched the following from an government web site.

"Waterborne (or latex) paints are composed of synthetic resins and pigments that are kept dispersed in water by surfactants. They also contain small amounts of coalescing solvents. Waterborne paints dry by evaporation of the water. The coalescing solvents allow the resin particles to fuse together (coalesce) as the water evaporates to form a continuous coating."

I think a bigger problem with waterborne primer would be adhesion. Because of the alloy steel in new car sheetmetal there needs to be a 36 grit grinder mark in the panel for even sovent based primer to bond. That's why we were introduced to acid based primers. This promoted a chemical bond inplace of the mechanical bond of solvent based primers to old mild steel body panels of the early iron.

Now, waterborne paints are not mixed with tap water. You purchase a solvent type water. You mix the base coat with a water that contains coalesing solvents. So, the solvents hold the base coat in suspension and allow the water to evaporate. Not enough air moving and the works could skin over trapping water in the base coat. So I would think the coalessing solvent is very slow to coales or flash allowing the water to excape.

Oh, and I saw an episode of trucks or something where they used waterborne paint of one of their projects. I think they were using a figgin heat gun to aid in air movement and evaporation.

Rick, do yourself a favor and buy a introductory kit from Auto Air Colors..

I think you will change your tune regarding waterborne paints pretty quickly.

Really.... spray some paint... then clean the gun with tap water...

My friends new spraybooth is almost like riding a motorcycle it's so windy. It's heated and windy. I would think the waterborne paints could be shot thinner and with more coats if you are a hobbiest.

My first job as a painter was spraying porcelain on a moving convair line, porcelain was ground colored glass mixed with water. My job before painting was the paint mixer. It was called the mill room. The porcelain was mixed in huge 500, 1000, and 1500, and 2000 lb. tumblers/grinders. The painters each had 80 gallon pots and usually used three pots a shift. I actually developed my right side more than the left. Sometimes we worked two shifts. If a panel got runs or trash in it or someone mishandled it, someone just took it off the hangers and swept it down with a broom and put it back on the line and we repainted it. The oven was part of the line and the heat even in the winter was enough to dry the porcelain in about three to five minutes, We were spraying and the oven was on the other side of the room. We each were infront of a three sided enclosure with big exhaust fans to pull most of the mist away from each painter. There were two on the good side and one painter on the back side. If the convair ever stopped the parts in the oven would be ruined. The overhead convair was a big oval, The room was about 280 feet by 100 feet and the oven was about 150 feet long. The parts would be dark red in the center. Some of the panels were 16 feet long by about 18 inches wide with 5 inch sides and interlocking flanges. These were filling station roof panels. The stations had lifetime warranty's on the panels. The whole station was sheeted with these porcelain panels. We were painting mild steel and never had a problem with rust of any kind. 1964, 1.50 a hour.

I was thinking the chev. trucks that all peeled were the first attempt at painting with waterborne top coats over regular primer.

I have used autoair on motorcycle tanks. You can try something and if you don't like it just wipe it off with a damp cloth but you better also resand it with 4 or 600 to make sure nothing is left in the paint scratches or it will show up when you get out in the sun after it's been cleared. Not a happy situation to have ghost skulls were you don't expect them.

I'm not sure if the waterborne paints are as durable in the sun as the old stuff.

I'm confused. What are you saying? I'm not upposed to the stuff. Infact I'm thinking there is alot of mis-information or lack of information about it's use. I think it will be pretty much user friendly once you use it a few times.

Are you saying you don't like it?

Sorry Rick, maybe got some posts mixed up