 waterborn paints, here they come, like it or not, comeing to Canada, and California |
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| pete-stevers |
 Feb 1 2009, 12:48 PM
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#1
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saved from fire!  Group: Members Posts: 2,641 Joined: 10-October 04 From: Abbotsford,BC, Canada Member No.: 2,914 Region Association: Pacific Northwest 
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I have been informed by my lordco paint rep that at the end of the year, we will no longer be able to buy solvent based auto paint, and we will be forced to switch to waterborn paints which require a ubber spensive cross draft booths, not to mention all the solvent paint guns will be obsolete....
basicaly killing any hobbiest paint operations...like me any thoughts or ideas??? it is to implemented here in Can and Cal. |
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| 736conver |
Feb 1 2009, 01:02 PM
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,117 Joined: 25-May 03 From: SE Wisconsin Member No.: 736 Region Association: None |
I think I read in a mag that by 2010 the switch will be in the US for waterborne paints. Besides the chemicals what are the differences in them. Which is better?
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| pete-stevers |
Feb 1 2009, 01:09 PM
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#3
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saved from fire! Group: Members Posts: 2,641 Joined: 10-October 04 From: Abbotsford,BC, Canada Member No.: 2,914 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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my understanding is that they will still allow clear, but the base and possibly the primer will be water based, the problem lies in the fact that the w/b paint requires a perfectly dust free paint booth and high cfm fans to dry.
it basically spells the end to the hobbist, due to the high cost of the booth. unless some creative ideas surface here i will be stock piling a bunch of solvent based primers, hardeners and paints for any future projects |
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| 736conver |
Feb 1 2009, 01:19 PM
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#4
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,117 Joined: 25-May 03 From: SE Wisconsin Member No.: 736 Region Association: None |
Im sure with everything, someone will design a low cost system.
Besides dont you want a perfectly dust free paint booth anyways. Even when I painted in my garage I tried to make it dust free. ie water down the floor etc... |
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| ConeDodger |
Feb 1 2009, 01:33 PM
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#5
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Apex killer! Group: Members Posts: 23,596 Joined: 31-December 04 From: Tahoe Area Member No.: 3,380 Region Association: Northern California
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IF it comes to California alone, it makes for a good excuse for a trip to Reno and a Buffet dinner at Boomtown!
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| rick 918-S |
Feb 1 2009, 01:39 PM
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#6
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,464 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region 
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Air movement is part of the drying but heaters are also part of the evaporation of the water based solvent. I don't think it will kill the hobbiest. Were too resourceful as americans. We'll figure it out.
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| pete-stevers |
Feb 1 2009, 01:48 PM
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#7
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saved from fire! Group: Members Posts: 2,641 Joined: 10-October 04 From: Abbotsford,BC, Canada Member No.: 2,914 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Feb 1 2009, 11:39 AM)  Air movement is part of the drying but heaters are also part of the evaporation of the water based solvent. I don't think it will kill the hobbiest. Were too resourceful as americans. We'll figure it out. exactly.... i just need to start figuring....cause now that i have started painting it is not something i want to drop..it is way to much fun..even if the runs didn't come from a fish burger... |
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| rick 918-S |
Feb 1 2009, 02:55 PM
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#8
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,464 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region
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I'm just starting to read about it. I'm thinking the hobbiest will need to invest in heat lamps. I'm not sure the actual application is anymore fussy than spraying the current solvent based, base/clear, base coat. It's getting the water based solvent to evaporate. That will take heat lamps. So, the production shops doing partial paints for collision repair will be doing very little more than they do now. Booth times may so a little but my guys used heat lamps to speed cure clear coat years ago.
I still have one of my old Sunkist heat lamps in the garage. It's a large thermoreactor. It opporates on propane. I'm going to have to see if this will work on water borne.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) |
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| pete-stevers |
Feb 1 2009, 03:41 PM
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#9
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saved from fire! Group: Members Posts: 2,641 Joined: 10-October 04 From: Abbotsford,BC, Canada Member No.: 2,914 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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the propane heater will cause to much moisture, from what i have read and heard you need air movement, and lots of it for the paint to flash off
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| melnyk |
Feb 1 2009, 04:30 PM
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 104 Joined: 26-July 08 From: wilkes-barre Member No.: 9,359 Region Association: None |
just buy paint in mex-e-co
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| pete-stevers |
Feb 1 2009, 05:34 PM
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#11
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saved from fire! Group: Members Posts: 2,641 Joined: 10-October 04 From: Abbotsford,BC, Canada Member No.: 2,914 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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i have heard that even if i buy paint in the US of A the paint may be seized at the border... we will see about that one
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| ericread |
Feb 1 2009, 05:38 PM
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#12
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The Viper Blue 914 Group: Members Posts: 2,177 Joined: 7-December 07 From: Irvine, CA (The OC) Member No.: 8,432 Region Association: Southern California |
Those guys in nothern Cali should have it made. Just take some of their sun lamps off of their indoor crops (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) for a while.
So the decision for them is... New paint or better crops (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) |
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| helios |
Feb 1 2009, 05:44 PM
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 234 Joined: 15-May 08 From: Bellingham Wa Member No.: 9,055 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
QUOTE(ericread @ Feb 1 2009, 03:38 PM) Those guys in nothern Cali should have it made. Just take some of their sun lamps off of their indoor crops (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) for a while. So the decision for them is... New paint or better crops (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol3.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool_shades.gif) He's probably got access to some up there somewhere through someone.......ever here the term "BC Bud"? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif) Actually I believe all/most of the new european cars are that way with paint. Except I believe even clear coat is as well due to european environmental restrictions. The paint thus far is not nearly as durable vs. stone chips and the like. Makes investing in clear bra on a new car a very sound decision. |
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| scotty b |
Feb 1 2009, 06:06 PM
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#14
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rust free you say ? Group: Members Posts: 16,375 Joined: 7-January 05 From: richmond, Va. Member No.: 3,419 Region Association: None |
Waterborne paint makes no difference on the gun used. I have shot it through my " normal " Sata that I have used for 3 years and it shoots just fine. As for killing the hobbyist, I am with Rick. It can be overcome. I have spoken at length with my paint rep and I am not worried about it one bit. Here in mid Va we will probably be the last to see it. NOVA on the other hand is a lot more " ECO " anal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) The one thing no one seems to be able to answer for me is how do you put a waterborne primer on top of bare metal and not have an immediate flash rust issue ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) Rep says as far as he can figur the paint is " supposed " to flash fast enough not to be a problem, but he too has doubts about it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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| pete-stevers |
Feb 1 2009, 06:08 PM
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#15
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saved from fire! Group: Members Posts: 2,641 Joined: 10-October 04 From: Abbotsford,BC, Canada Member No.: 2,914 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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i have learned that the base will be the only water born paint in the mix the clear and primer will still have VOCs....which is confusing
a painter will have to use a dual sys, voc and water base solutions |
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| sww914 |
Feb 1 2009, 08:08 PM
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,439 Joined: 4-June 06 Member No.: 6,146 Region Association: None |
My friend has already switched to it in his body shop. The change isn't due until July in this county, it happened in Jan in LA and Santa Barbara AFAIK. He switched early just to have time to adapt. He said he likes it just fine, in some ways it's better than the old basecoat. The primers and clears are still solvent based, it's just the basecoat so far. He says that all he's had to buy is a couple of handheld venturis at $60.00 each.
He said that air movement is key. They aren't using heat lamps any more than they did before but air movement us critical. |
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| craig downs |
Feb 1 2009, 08:21 PM
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#17
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 768 Joined: 25-November 05 From: mira loma ca. Member No.: 5,189 Region Association: Southern California |
Here in good old Cali it already switch over to waterborne base the 1st of this year. You can still buy solvent base but they say you have to buy the ubber expensive reducer like around 80 buck a gallon for Omni.
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| TimT |
Feb 1 2009, 08:51 PM
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#18
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retired Group: Members Posts: 4,033 Joined: 18-February 03 From: Wantagh, NY Member No.: 313 |
Big friggin deal about waterborn or waterbased paints!!!
Checkout Autoaircolors I have used this paint on a few projects.... QUOTE It's getting the water based solvent to evaporate. I have the car on dollies... roll them out into the sun or like you say heat lamps and fans....Biggest heat lamp we have is the sun... Both of these cars were painted with Auto Air paints..  They don't have a waterborne clear yet so you still need to dress up and protect when spraying the iso-cyanates Also its really nice to just use soap and warm water to clean a spray gun... I say bring it on...I have no problem with this.. |
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| TimT |
Feb 1 2009, 08:58 PM
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#19
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retired Group: Members Posts: 4,033 Joined: 18-February 03 From: Wantagh, NY Member No.: 313 |
QUOTE ot to mention all the solvent paint guns will be obsolete.... Missed this on first read All your existing guns will work... if you happen to have guns with parts that will corrode when exposed to water.. well you just gave to break them down and dry them after you paint.... |
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| pete-stevers |
Feb 1 2009, 09:02 PM
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#20
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saved from fire! Group: Members Posts: 2,641 Joined: 10-October 04 From: Abbotsford,BC, Canada Member No.: 2,914 Region Association: Pacific Northwest
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yes the sun....you need to bring up that sore point ..don-cha
i see the sun maybe a couple of times a year here in rainy BC |
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