So, they car has VERY few miles on it, under 5.

At starting on idle, pressure goes up to ~40.

Start driving, its fine for the fist little bit, then the pressure goes to 0 and the light comes on. If I rev with no load (out of gear, stopped), pressure comes back up.

As soon as the engine gets under load, pressure seems to take a dive.

I am not leaving any oil slicks, and there is oil in the engine (checked many many times.)

Oil smells a bit gassy, but thats probably due to the rings not being seated, as I have not been able to drive the car to seat them, and my carbs are still a little rich.

I am using the VDO dual sender on a steel flex hose to the oil pressure sender outlet.

I took the sender off and cranked the motor (no ignition) and got oil coming out of the hose. Not shooting out of the hose, but oil was moving through it.

I had put teflon tape on the end to prevent leaks, but that has been removed.

Oil pump is supposed to be a high volume pump.


Mike thinks it may just be low oil in the engine, and the dipstick is not original. We need the measurements of a stock /4 dipstick.

Mike is sooooo damn cool and I wish I was more like him. I have such a man crush

Oh ya, what is the measurement of the dipstick holder from the engine to the top of the holder??? Mine looks JB welded in and aftermarket.

Tube is 161mm long. It should stick out of the case for 150 mm. Saw the car yesterday Zach it is looking good. Sorry we didn't stop but we had to get back to pick up the little one from the inlaws.

A fresh engine takes a little over 4 quarts. If you put 4 quarts in it, you have enough oil. If not, then you should have counted them. Oil level, unless it's REALLY low, shouldn't affect your oil pressure. Clearances are the most likely problem. Of course, your "high volume" oil pump may be at the root of your dilemma.

The Cap'n, "the stock oil pump guy".

I'm going with this, although my oil pump isn't stock. I had a stock 2.0 with a horrendous vacuum leak that I accidentally ran down to like a quart of oil right before we took it out (was still running as good as it ever did, problend FTW). I also don't trust those relocated pressure senders, mine was always acting up (not that they can't work, mine was just always wonky.)

so who didnt develop a car problem at hershey.??

guy next to me noticed his rear wheels were both rubbing.

i noticed my car dosnt want to start anymore

zach has a oil starvation problem

the white car (apon arrival) was grindin and smelling very clutchy

anyone eles??



and i thought it was just me

Is the sender unit properly grounded? The Cap'n

So, fixed some problems, but not others.

The aftermarket dipstick and tube was NOWHERE near right. I drained the oil and put in 4.5 fresh quarts of Brad Penn 20w-50 (I have a tuna can).

When I poured the old oil out, it was only 2.5 quarts, so I was clearly low.

started the engine and idled it - no oil pressure. removed the VDO sender from the hose and could not get oil out of the hose with the engine idling.

Checked under the car to make sure there were not 4.5 quarts of fresh engine oil under there, and it was dry.

Then I got called in for baby duty. I was pretty frustrated anyhow.

The engine idles nicely. If the engine idles, then the pump is turning. If the pump is turning, I should have oil coming out the hose to the VDO sender. So, why don't I?

Zach

> - Schadek 30mm oil pump

This is the pump that is in my engine. Are they prone to failure?

Only way I am getting no pressure right now is to the the oil pump not turning, right?

Or I guess it could be backing out of its housing somehow, but that would be pretty darned unlikely w/o a big puddle of oil to accompany it.

Zach

Debris somewhere in the passages

Pressure valve is stuck

you have a midgets finger jammed in the oil circuit somewhere

"If the engine idles, then the pump is turning." Oh? Not if it's the wrong pump ........... Or if it's broken.

The Cap'n

the 30mm h.v. pump thing...

i used a new mellings 30mm in mine and was concerned about all the hot oil pressure issues i'd heard about and also the heat problem so many claimed where due to h.v. pumps. what your saying sounds like it could be a bounding releif valve or weak spring

in the past i've used an aftermarket oil bypass spring and valve on a 76' bus that helped hot oil pressure.

again when i built my 2056 i was concerned with the h.v. issues but mostly the heat because when the oil pressure bleeds off oil it also bypasses the oil cooler, thus temp's go up. i shimmed the primary bypass spring with .040 shims. we've put about 100 miles on and have great hot and cold oil pressure along with a very cool running engine, even on last summers 100*+ days. i really think it has to do with the relife valve being in sync with the h.v. pump issue (along with the 9550 cam). did you by chance put the thin oil pump gasket inbetween the outer cover and pump?

what pressure do you start off with and what pressure and at what tempature does it drop?

I knew it!

Temps: not high enough to matter, I think. Head temps under 200. Literally, I have less then 5 miles on the motor. I have not put it under load enough to seat the rings yet. I drove the car maybe a mile in Hershey, when I noticed the problem.

After fiddling with it at home, I drove it about 300 yards when I went from 40 pounds to 0 pounds. That was due to not having enough oil in the engine, due to the after market dipstick being wrong on the oil fill line.

Looking at the diagram on Page 20 of the Haynes manual, I should have a dierct path from the pump to the pressure gauge sender. Course, that may be incorrect.

Zach

I thought I would be good and install an oil pressure gauge with the remote hose and dual sender. ... leaked like a seive! Leaked so bad that Root couldn't follow me because he got oil on his windshield! Had to swap back the original sender and didn't leak a drop on the way home. My oil pressure was way high I thought, around 55 psi cruising at about 70.

Ever see an engine blow at a vw show.
Some of them last a long time, with no oil.

Check the pump.

Rich

What is the usual failure mode on the /4 oil pump? His pressure was up and then down and then up I do think it is the pump, though.

It was up, then down...now zero.
Tang can break off if it was crooked, wrong length, jammed.

You gotta measure all the clearances..
depth of pump, size of tang..length of tang.

I have seen pumps that dont reach far enough, and some that the body it to deep so when you tighten down the pump, it bind and breaks the tang.

Rich

I bet a Melling will fix this.

why not just use a stock pump?

Rich

My 1.8 ran flawlessly.
70mph average speed over 300 mile return trip distance, 185 degree peak oil temp, 86mph peak speed somewhere on the Merritt Parkway in CT, 25+ mpg with about 1000 miles on the engine.
Just over 3400rpm at 75mph.
I have never driven a 914 that far before.
4 hours 15 minutes non-stop except for a quick pee break
I love the sound of my Tangerine Exhaust, especially with the window down. Sweet music!
The dual 40 Dellortos are a bit loud though.

Oh, that was Ed with the quarter on your starter.

An easy and surefire way to check is to remove the oil filter and see if it pumps oil out. If it doesn't you broke the tang off your pump. Did you get this from Jake? Was it all ready clearanced?

Maybe?
The guy I bought the engine from got some parts from Jake, some parts from other places.

When I pull it (maybe this weekend if I can wrangle time) I'll find out what I am looking it. I wanted to pull the exhaust off for ceramic coating anyhow after the MEI.

Zach

No need to pull it for this test. Just spin off the oil filter and crank it over with a drain pan and the coil wire removed.

And if you see no oil coming out, do not run it anymore until you find out the problem. Your tang probably broke off the oil pump or the gear on the pump wasnt pressed in properly onto the shaft(I've seen it). I would go with a factory pump, they work great.


Patrick

Happy happy joy joy Do we really need to do the filter test since the oil pump is either bad or there is a monster blockage in the case? I am not a gainst a stock pump, this is a 2056 and if stock works I would support Zach using one.

I was suggesting that as a final idiot test only...

Zach-

I have a couple of stock pumps if you need one. I think the 30mm oil pumps are overkill too and can lead to hotter oil (saw that in my beetle), but that isn't your issue here. I also have a 30mm t1 pump floating around somewhere too that should be set up properly for a t4 if you want to stick with a 30mm unit.

-Chris

your sump pickup tube has the extension on it for the tuna can, correct?

Yes, but I am thinking about removing the can. I don't like that it hangs lower then the engine bar.

Jump large 12vdc positive battery terminal at the starter to the small yellow wire terminal on the solenoid.

Rich

Not being down on your idea

You almost made me cry...

A year ago or so I build a 2.4+ 2L 200hrp. and when I put in the big volume pump I had to grid off the input paddle because it was to long? thick can't remember. but that sucker needs a lot of oil and I have never had the problem. The man i worked with told me I would have problems if I did not do this mod. I will ask him tomorrow what we did and why.

Boa

If it is the old bug deal the cam gears set at different depths inside the case, one has more dish than the other and the pumps need to match the depth so that full contact is between them. Unneeded volume (more volume is how you make more pressure) means a lot higher oil temps when the oil doesn't have anywhere to go (I think 340 df is boiling) and sometimes boiling makes air bubbles and air don't work in bearings.

I'm going to be buying one of Jakes cam kits tomorrow since I am splitting the case when I autopsy the engine. When I talk to him, I am going to ask him about overpressure with a 30mm pump.

Zach,
To ensure that you learn what is going on....get a set of calipers and measure the pump...the length of the tang..the depth of the hole in the case and the depth of the tang in the camshaft.

This is where the issues arise.
All the pumps work in the original location....the issues happen when you use a pump designed for a type one and put it in a type 4.
Its all depth related, not diameter, and not to much oil pressure.

RIch

It is also possible that if the cam gear was not spotfaced for the cam bolts and the backside of the pump was clearanced instead that the shaft supporting the driven pump gear came loose and wreaked some havoc . . .

Can you pull a t1 pump from a 914 without pulling the fan housing/dropping the engine? Or the stock pump for that matter . . .

-Chris

Nope. Engine has to come down, engine bar has to be removed, and fan shroud has to come off.

Zach

Ah, that licks

Here's how I did my oil pump. This is all done for you by Jake but you still have to check it. Check to see if the cam bolts clear the case.

Click to view attachment

And shorten as needed.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Check that the cam bolt heads clear the oil pump. These are recessed into the cam gear and I didn't used any washers.

Click to view attachment

Put the top gear in the pump. If it is for a type 1 it will probably stand proud of the oil pump body when it is in the slot on the cam. Note that the gear is proud of the shaft by quite a ways. You can take advantage of this.

Click to view attachment

Here's the trick. You can press the gear father onto the shaft and then you still get the right engagement of the shaft into the slot.

Click to view attachment

Notice how the shaft is nearly flush with the gear now. Make sure you don't run the shaft thru the gear so it is proud of the gear.

Click to view attachment

The cover now sits flush on the oil pump body and the shaft is fully engaged in the cam. The bolt heads clear the pump and the bolts clear the case.

Click to view attachment

All that is left is to check cam endplay and oil pump run out.

Dave

I did it. PITA, and you have to pull the engine bar and the mount bar brackets. Took less time than dropping the motor, but it was annoying to work under the car like that. I really need a lift soon.